(10-13-2019, 10:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Honestly, can you name 1 great QB who doesn't have that type of pocket presence?

It seems to be THE big skill along with accuracy and arm strength. But having accuracy and arm strength alone isn't enough.

Drew Brees is the best even the GOAT could take lessons.

(10-13-2019, 10:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: At the first sign of any pressure Dalton panics. He's like a teenage boy trying to hide a Playboy magazine back under his bed when mom walks in his room.

Andy Dalton just likes the articles.

(10-13-2019, 10:58 PM)jason Wrote: Andy Dalton just likes the articles.

LOL 

(10-13-2019, 10:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Remember when Hue Jackson was our OC and Andy Dalton was playing like a pseudo-MVP?

I member...

I also remember 3 good WRs, a top 10 defense, a competent coaching staff, and an above average O line.

(10-13-2019, 11:02 PM)jason Wrote: I member...

I also remember 3 good WRs, a top 10 defense, a competent coaching staff, and an above average O line.

Yeah, there was a point where we were better than we are now...it really stinks that our golden age was gilded at best, though.  

(10-13-2019, 11:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, there was a point where we were better than we are now...it really stinks that our golden age was gilded at best, though.  

And wasted by MB refusing to use free agency to fill the gaps and not paying the right players to stay.

(10-13-2019, 11:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah, there was a point where we were better than we are now...it really stinks that our golden age was gilded at best, though.  

I enjoyed the hell out of it. I wished we had advanced farther during those years, but I also realized that was probably the longest sustained success in this franchise's history. Many of us were calling for Marvin's head after 2008, 2010, 2013, and 2015. I was hesitant because I feared THIS is what would happen. I knew it was time after last year, and probably should've been after 2017... But damn... This sucks.

(10-13-2019, 11:12 PM)jason Wrote: I enjoyed the hell out of it. I wished we had advanced farther during those years, but I also realized that was probably the longest sustained success in this franchise's history. Many of us were calling for Marvin's head after 2008, 2010, 2013, and 2015. I was hesitant because I feared THIS is what would happen. I knew it was time after last year, and probably should've been after 2017... But damn... This sucks.

I'm not too sure we'd have done better if we replaced Marvin sooner, but when we talked about replacing Marvin during the golden run I pointed out that getting a new HC when we were winning might have led to a better pool of candidates.  But this requires believing that Mike Brown wasn't just looking for a HC who would cave in to his craptastic methods.

(10-13-2019, 11:02 PM)jason Wrote: I member...

I also remember 3 good WRs, a top 10 defense, a competent coaching staff, and an above average O line.

Yeah, that's the part i remember too. 

(10-13-2019, 10:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I harp on pocket presence but I don't know that a lot of people get it. Brady's lineman give up pressure too, but he sense it and moves up 2 feet in the pocket and the DE has no angle to sack him.

Dalton may be the worst QB in the NFL at moving around the pocket to avoid the blitz. He just doesn't have it. So he gets sacked when a guy like Brady or Roethlisberger wouldn't.

It's teachable to some extent...but not at this point in his career.

This is very accurate and I don’t think everyone can or will understand this. Well said.

(10-13-2019, 11:19 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not too sure we'd have done better if we replaced Marvin sooner, but when we talked about replacing Marvin during the golden run I pointed out that getting a new HC when we were winning might have led to a better pool of candidates.  But this requires believing that Mike Brown wasn't just looking for a HC who would cave in to his craptastic methods.

Can you imagine Bill Parcells telling Mike "don't ask me to cook and not let me choose the ingredients" 

(10-13-2019, 11:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Can you imagine Bill Parcells telling Mike "don't ask me to cook and not let me choose the ingredients" 

The scouting demands is a HUGE ask to a rookie HC who has to fill out a staff, evaluate a roster, create a playbook on offense and defense, decide which free agents to sign.

I think that's what people don't get.

As a rookie HC, I think they needed to just let him focus on coaching and put scouts and a competent GM in place. Hire an offensive coordinator and a defensive coordinator like Del Rio.

Taylor is too in-experienced to be a one-man show...and he's failing miserably.

He's not even a good play-caller.

Honestly, what are the odds that 1 inexperienced person would be good or even capable of all of those aspects? THAT'S how you get a Dave Shula like experience.

(10-13-2019, 11:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Can you imagine Bill Parcells telling Mike "don't ask me to cook and not let me choose the ingredients" 

We brought this up multiple times when we were sure...or at least hoping that ZT was having a big hand in the guys we picked in the 2019 draft.  I'm not convinced ZT would know which ingredients to select even if he had the chance (particularly if it was his idea to reach for Sample).  Then again, coaching for Mike Brown is like being sent to the store with a quarter and being told to "make it last."

(10-13-2019, 11:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We brought this up multiple times when we were sure...or at least hoping that ZT was having a big hand in the guys we picked in the 2019 draft.  I'm not convinced ZT would know which ingredients to select even if he had the chance (particularly if it was his idea to reach for Sample).  Then again, coaching for Mike Brown is like being sent to the store with a quarter and being told to "make it last."

Wouldn't you love to know who is really calling the draft shots ? Is it really Tobin ? How much say did ZT really have ? Does MB really make the final decision ?

(10-13-2019, 11:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Wouldn't you love to know who is really calling the draft shots ? Is it really Tobin ? How much say did ZT really have ? Does MB really make the final decision ?

I feel like for free agency, the staff had to have a say as they signed several guys that they coached before.

That said, the big question is...did they ask for legit free agents and get turned down.

It is a bit hard to believe how amped up a bunch of people were in the Bengals organization about giving Hart a 3 year $21 million contract. We were all hoping it was to be a backup. Then, they named him starter at RT and said Glenn was moving to Guard. Why not Glenn at RT and Jonah at LT?

(10-13-2019, 11:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Wouldn't you love to know who is really calling the draft shots ? Is it really Tobin ? How much say did ZT really have ? Does MB really make the final decision ?

We can only use logic to make an educated guess.  We aren't as bad as we were when Mike Brown was 100% in charge...but we have a GM who is A-OK with not being called a GM in Duke Tobin, so I have a hard time believing that he's a top-tier kinda GM if he's willing to let his resume suffer to keep the peace.

The way I see it is that MB is either still 100% in charge or he's just mostly in charge and the people he hires are either his family members or people who will follow his lead as long as they want to keep their jobs.  Maybe he's more reasonable than I give him credit for, but I just can't see him hiring people who are going to challenge him or give him much push-back, especially since players or coaches that have challenged him have been given a sort of "Sorry to hear you don't like the way I run things, but I'm not going to change" reply.

(10-13-2019, 08:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Is the o-line the biggest problem? They did pass block well some games and we didn't win.

It appears that the biggest problem changes from game to game.

No.

Sometimes a shitty golfer gets a nice shot once in awhile. That doesn't mean he no longer sucks.

(10-14-2019, 12:05 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: No.

Sometimes a shitty golfer gets a nice shot once in awhile. That doesn't mean he no longer sucks.

Well, as we get further into the hole it becomes more apparently that trying to find the biggest problem this team has is a bit of a pointless endeavor.  You don't get to be 0-6 because you have one big problem...what isn't our biggest problem?  It's all problems, isn't it?

(10-14-2019, 12:05 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: No.

Sometimes a shitty golfer gets a nice shot once in awhile. That doesn't mean he no longer sucks.

Huh?  

(10-14-2019, 12:08 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Huh?  

The O-line sucks
Today, they weren't embarrassingly bad at pass protection
They still suck

They lose mostly because the defense is so atrocious, opponents haven't broken out the trick plays or mis-direction because they don't need to. Most teams are playing vanilla offense and just shredding through the Bengals defense like it's a walk through. Even if the o-line started opening holes for Mixon and consistently gave Dalton more time to let routes develop, the defense would get ran over and over and over.