(10-14-2019, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL  and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

Actually Ogbuehi and Fisher were meant to also replace Andre Smith along with Whitworth.
OL evaluation has been abysmal with this organization for the past 5 years. Not only did they swing and miss on Ogbuehi and Fisher, but Bodine was mediocre at best and Price has been vastly underwhelming. Jordan was thrown into a role too soon, and he's not good at all right now. We'll have to wait and see with Jonah Williams, but he seemed like a pretty safe, good selection. He's about the only recently drafted OL I can say I'm excited to see.

They haven't hit on a LB in the draft in a decade. 

The team's DL choices have also been worrisome. They find decent players but no game changers (yet).

(10-14-2019, 04:50 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We are a team that builds primarily through the draft and FA, a look at why our OL  and talent is below par. I like looking forward, but this is a main reason why we are where we are today. Our talent is lacking, the OL is in a shambles.

We panicked and drafted Whitt's replacements too soon setting the stage for his departure. The void has never been fixed.

We had a choice of 2 guards, Zeitler (we chose) or DeCastro who most said was a can't miss. DeCastro is one of the best guards in football, Zeitler was good and never great. How good would our OL have been adding DeCastro with Whitt.

We could have drafted Mahomes or Watson instead of John Ross. The Chiefs and a QB named Smith, but decided to draft another QB and traded up for Mahomes.

Those are just 3 huge misses off the top of my head. 2 would have fixed our OL.

I also see teams like the Steelers take unknowns like the current LT and make them stars. So, yes coaching also an issue.

Who do you have that would make our roster more talented but we did not draft?

"Low-level FA's.....Fixed it for you....

(10-15-2019, 11:38 AM)higgy100 Wrote: "Low-level FA's.....Fixed it for you....

well Released or Cut FA's to avoid comp pick

(10-15-2019, 11:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: Now you see why some of us supported Palmer's decision on the old board.

As to your OP Luvnit, I have maintained for the last couple of years that the 2015 draft screwed this team for at least 5 years moving forward. It wasn't fair to Marvin, and it's really handcuffing a rookie HC. Preparing for Whit's departure was smart, the execution was horrible. Is there anyone left from that draft contributing? Uzomah?

2015 was a disappointment.  What could have been....perhaps a Shaq Thompson or Bernardrick McKinney instead.  Both were being mentioned on these draft boards as options.

Looking back, the biggest miss the Bengals had in recent times (Marvin Era) wasn't even draft related.

2013-2014 offseason. After the playoff loss to the Chargers the Bengals should have let Marvin go and made Zimmer the HC. Hue Jackson still would have taken over the offense.

The Bengals would have had a legit chance at a SB appearance in either 2014 or 2015 with Mike Zimmer as HC/DC and Hue Jackson as OC. They had the players needed in 2013-2015 to make deep postseason runs. They just had the Marvin mediocrity of collapsing in primetime/Steelers/postseason.

(10-15-2019, 11:29 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The team's DL choices have also been worrisome. They find decent players but no game changers (yet).

Before the travesty of Bodine/Ogbuehi/Fisher the Bengals had a terrible string of 2nd-3rd round picks used on D-linemen, but just recently he have hit on Hubbard, Lawson, and Billings.

So maybe some of it was just luck. For a long time Alexander didn't get many early O-line picks, but he did go 20 years without having a 1st-3rd round flop. 

Bengals may not be the worst at drafting, but their reluctance to sign free agents to fill for the misses magnify their mistakes.  Every team has lots of picks that flop.  They just don't start them for four years.

(10-15-2019, 12:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Looking back, the biggest miss the Bengals had in recent times (Marvin Era) wasn't even draft related.

2013-2014 offseason. After the playoff loss to the Chargers the Bengals should have let Marvin go and made Zimmer the HC. Hue Jackson still would have taken over the offense.

The Bengals would have had a legit chance at a SB appearance in either 2014 or 2015 with Mike Zimmer as HC/DC and Hue Jackson as OC. They had the players needed in 2013-2015 to make deep postseason runs. They just had the Marvin mediocrity of collapsing in primetime/Steelers/postseason.

Why keep Jackson and Zimmer when they were part of the post season meltdowns?

(10-15-2019, 12:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Looking back, the biggest miss the Bengals had in recent times (Marvin Era) wasn't even draft related.

2013-2014 offseason. After the playoff loss to the Chargers the Bengals should have let Marvin go and made Zimmer the HC. Hue Jackson still would have taken over the offense.

The Bengals would have had a legit chance at a SB appearance in either 2014 or 2015 with Mike Zimmer as HC/DC and Hue Jackson as OC. They had the players needed in 2013-2015 to make deep postseason runs. They just had the Marvin mediocrity of collapsing in primetime/Steelers/postseason.

Bingo. Spot the **** on

(10-14-2019, 07:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, the Bengals wanted Whitworth and told teams he was coming back. Then they lowballed him and the Rams jumped in.

It's not like they didn't want him.

They botched it.

Because they thought they had leverage over him (Og) and that no one else would be interested in him at his age.

(10-14-2019, 07:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The thing is, the Bengals wanted Whitworth and told teams he was coming back. Then they lowballed him and the Rams jumped in.

It's not like they didn't want him.

They botched it.

Words mean ****-all when the language of the league is dollars and cents.

(10-15-2019, 12:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Looking back, the biggest miss the Bengals had in recent times (Marvin Era) wasn't even draft related.

2013-2014 offseason. After the playoff loss to the Chargers the Bengals should have let Marvin go and made Zimmer the HC. Hue Jackson still would have taken over the offense.

The Bengals would have had a legit chance at a SB appearance in either 2014 or 2015 with Mike Zimmer as HC/DC and Hue Jackson as OC. They had the players needed in 2013-2015 to make deep postseason runs. They just had the Marvin mediocrity of collapsing in primetime/Steelers/postseason.

Zimmer's defenses wilted in the postseason many times here too. Some years it was the offense. Some the defense.

It's impossible to say that Zimmer would have led us to a SB as DC.

And honestly, as a HC for the Vikings he hasn't proven to be some great HC. They're frustrated with him there too.

(10-15-2019, 01:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Because they thought they had leverage over him (Og) and that no one else would be interested in him at his age.

Exactly. ie They botched it.

(10-15-2019, 07:07 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Zimmer's defenses wilted in the postseason many times here too. Some years it was the offense. Some the defense.

It's impossible to say that Zimmer would have led us to a SB as DC.

And honestly, as a HC for the Vikings he hasn't proven to be some great HC. They're frustrated with him there too.

But that defense was the reason why they were there in the first place. If he was given slightly better players, they could have been historic defenses. Keep in mind he was taking players like Tank Johnson, Chris Crocker, Terrence Newman, Rey Maualuga, Vincent Rey, etc. and cranking out Top-10 and Top-5 defenses like it was nothing.

I'm not saying he would have for certain led the Bengals to SBs, but it would sure have given them a better chance.

If they're frustrated with Zimmer there, it's only because they are fools. Look at what he's done. His only losing season was his first one, he's taken them to the playoffs twice. The first time his D held the Seahawks to 10 points, and they were a shanked 27-yard FG (shorter than a PAT) away from winning. Then the second time they held the 2nd ranked offense Saints to 24 and won, only to be outclassed by 3rd ranked scoring offense Eagles, who ended up winning the SB while dropping 41 on the Patriots. 

They're 4-2 now this season and currently on pace to reach the playoffs again. If they're frustrated with him in Minnesota, I would take him over Zac Taylor's clown show in a heartbeat.

(10-15-2019, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Before the travesty of Bodine/Ogbuehi/Fisher the Bengals had a terrible string of 2nd-3rd round picks used on D-linemen, but just recently he have hit on Hubbard, Lawson, and Billings.

So maybe some of it was just luck. For a long time Alexander didn't get many early O-line picks, but he did go 20 years without having a 1st-3rd round flop. 

Bengals may not be the worst at drafting, but their reluctance to sign free agents to fill for the misses magnify their mistakes.  Every team has lots of picks that flop.  They just don't start them for four years.

I agree. It seems other teams cut bait early, we hang on to guys way too long.

I also agree FA should be used to fix the misses, we put bandaids on the gushing wounds versus upgrading the bad picks

C'mon..you make it sound like the Bengals accidentally made a few mistakes. I'd counter that by saying they never accidentally make mistakes. They're always intentionally stupid. Make no mistake about it.
But at least they have a redecorated locker room and new offices which is always more important than winning.. Right?