EVERY TEAM has injuries. You need depth to overcome them.

Take the 49ers -
Starting Tackle Joe Staley - Out since Week 3. 6-time Pro Bowl Player
Starting Tackle Mike McGlinchey - Out since Week 6. PFWA All-Rookie Team. 1st Round pick.
RB - Tevin Coleman - Missed multiple games
FB - Kyle Juszczyk  - Out since Week 6. 3-time Pro Bowl Player

They also have lesser players that have missed games.

But, they have 2 good to great Tackles...and BOTH have been out. They also lost their dominant RB for several games and a great FB.

Yet...THEY'RE UNDEFEATED. And their offense looks pretty great!

They aren't 0-8 and looking terrible. Devastated because they're missing 2 lineman.

Their fans aren't like...NOBODY could win with these injuries! EVERY TEAM has injuries. The reason we lose is because our coaching is poor.

You can look at other teams - Kansas City- They had 6 quality players including Mahomes out for their game last week. And guess what? Andy Reid schemed Matt Moore into having a good game!

This OP points out, using two good teams as examples, where the Bengals’ true shortcomings are: Coaching and depth. Most of San Francisco’s backups would easily start in Cincinnati.

(10-31-2019, 11:47 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This OP points out, using two good teams as examples, where the Bengals’ true shortcomings are: Coaching and depth.  Most of San Francisco’s backups would easily start in Cincinnati.

Their defense has speed too. How the Bengals coaches could review last years tape...see Vigil and sign off on re-signing Brown...and THEN DECIDE to go to a base defense that uses 2 LBs...making those 2 slow LB's have to cover more space...I don't know.

And some people think the staff just needs more time. Some of their blatant scheme/personnel errors make this team much worse.

Shouldn't the front office be taken to task for this as well?
Depth was always going to be a question I don't recall many on the board bragging about our depth. Infact I think it was mandatory to say if they stay healthy before every post.

I don't think too many people will disagree with you.

Yes injuries do happen and the team has to overcome them. Having quality back ups provides good security until the starting player can return.

When we blame injuries though, it seems to be these little nicks and bumps that are reported and the expectation is the guy being out a few weeks. Only to have the player miss significant time or even be gone the whole year.

When you see a guy on another team and get a concussion then is playing 2-3 weeks later, then see one of our guys miss the entirety of the season with the same reported injury that makes you wonder what is going on.

You expect guys to miss. Sometimes you expect to have some guys miss the whole season. However you also expect minor injuries to be addressed and players to be ready at the earliest availability.

Take Green for example. Him being out shouldn't make us 0-8. His injury was only supposed to be 4-6 weeks, before the season started. Here we are at week 9 and on the bye and there is now talk in getting him on the field against Baltimore. That is week 10 of the season so his injury has kept him out for 12-13 weeks. If he were out for only 4-6 weeks, then we would only need to game plan for 1-3 weeks without him and try and win 1 or 2 without him.

When Brees went down for 6 (I think) games, the Saints expectation wasn't to go 6-0 in that stretch, but they wanted to go at least 3-3. Bridgewater did just enough not to lose and his players around him rallied and the Saints were able to run out the injury with their back up. Now that Brees is back in there they are a stronger team.

Coaching, scheme, quality back ups (though with us I do think it is coaching) and your starters rising up to cover for the drop in play that is to be expected (which is another reason I hate the expression "Make the other players around them better" nonsense).

(11-01-2019, 08:48 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I don't think too many people will disagree with you.

Yes injuries do happen and the team has to overcome them. Having quality back ups provides good security until the starting player can return.

When we blame injuries though, it seems to be these little nicks and bumps that are reported and the expectation is the guy being out a few weeks. Only to have the player miss significant time or even be gone the whole year.

When you see a guy on another team and get a concussion then is playing 2-3 weeks later, then see one of our guys miss the entirety of the season with the same reported injury that makes you wonder what is going on.

You expect guys to miss. Sometimes you expect to have some guys miss the whole season. However you also expect minor injuries to be addressed and players to be ready at the earliest availability.

Take Green for example. Him being out shouldn't make us 0-8. His injury was only supposed to be 4-6 weeks, before the season started. Here we are at week 9 and on the bye and there is now talk in getting him on the field against Baltimore. That is week 10 of the season so his injury has kept him out for 12-13 weeks. If he were out for only 4-6 weeks, then we would only need to game plan for 1-3 weeks without him and try and win 1 or 2 without him.

When Brees went down for 6 (I think) games, the Saints expectation wasn't to go 6-0 in that stretch, but they wanted to go at least 3-3. Bridgewater did just enough not to lose and his players around him rallied and the Saints were able to run out the injury with their back up. Now that Brees is back in there they are a stronger team.

Coaching, scheme, quality back ups (though with us I do think it is coaching) and your starters rising up to cover for the drop in play that is to be expected (which is another reason I hate the expression "Make the other players around them better" nonsense).

The Saints are another team that proves the OP's point about depth. Not only did Brees miss 6 games, Alvin Kamara just missed 2. Having Bridgewater, and Latavius Murray around really came in handy. The Bengals had some pretty good depth between 2013-2015. Now; not so much. They started the year with 3 tackles on the roster. One of them they wanted to switch to guard. Another was Bobby Hart.

(11-01-2019, 12:45 AM)J24 Wrote: Shouldn't the front office be taken to task for this as well?
Depth was always going to be a question I don't recall many on the board bragging about our depth. Infact I think it was mandatory to say if they stay healthy before every post.

This is a great post.

The Cincinnati Bengals treat backup players like fodder and that’s an issue. Other teams consider backups “starters waiting to happen” so when an actual starter goes down, the fall off in quality of play is minimal if not nonexistent.

How many times have we watched the BLEEPing Steelers when one of their offensive lineman gets dinged up and has to sit out a series or two. Their backup comes in and still pass blocks and run blocks with energy and great technique. That’s depth.

The Bengals used to be deep on the defensive line. A prime feature of the Mike Zimmer defense was rotating fresh defensive lineman in and out of the entire game. You need to have depth to do that. When Andy Dalton went down in late 2015, I thought AJ McCarron did a fantastic job backing him up. Heck, AJ McCarron almost won a playoff game!

A depth chart is for more than just deciding in which “string” a player belongs.

Injuries have just become the go to excuse around here.

The 49ers lost several OL players to injury but Benton has been able to get talent from several back up players. Turner is the antithesis of Benton.

Bengals really need Bill Callahan or Mike Sherman for OL coach.

(11-01-2019, 12:45 AM)J24 Wrote: Shouldn't the front office be taken to task for this as well?
Depth was always going to be a question I don't recall many on the board bragging about our depth. Infact I think it was mandatory to say if they stay healthy before every post.

It's silly to have the caveat...IF HEALTHY...because teams never go through a year healthy.

Absolutely. It's an EVERY LEVEL of the organization issue.

I'm sure management relied on Taylors evaluation. I'm sure Taylor thought he could coach the guys here up...but he's so inexperienced that he didn't know better.

The drafts have been bad for the past few years aside from a player here and there.

(10-31-2019, 11:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: EVERY TEAM has injuries. You need depth to overcome them.

Take the 49ers -
Starting Tackle Joe Staley - Out since Week 3. 6-time Pro Bowl Player
Starting Tackle Mike McGlinchey - Out since Week 6. PFWA All-Rookie Team. 1st Round pick.
RB - Tevin Coleman - Missed multiple games
FB - Kyle Juszczyk  - Out since Week 6. 3-time Pro Bowl Player

They also have lesser players that have missed games.

But, they have 2 good to great Tackles...and BOTH have been out. They also lost their dominant RB for several games and a great FB.

Yet...THEY'RE UNDEFEATED. And their offense looks pretty great!

They aren't 0-8 and looking terrible. Devastated because they're missing 2 lineman.

Their fans aren't like...NOBODY could win with these injuries! EVERY TEAM has injuries. The reason we lose is because our coaching is poor.

You can look at other teams - Kansas City- They had 6 quality players including Mahomes out for their game last week. And guess what? Andy Reid schemed Matt Moore into having a good game!

The 49ers, like the Patriots, Chiefs, and Saints, know how to change up playcalling to adapt to which players are healthy. Their running game when they played the Bengals was a work of art. And they didn't have Coleman for that game either.

(11-01-2019, 09:36 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is a great post.

The Cincinnati Bengals treat backup players like fodder and that’s an issue.  Other teams consider backups “starters waiting to happen” so when an actual starter goes down, the fall off in quality of play is minimal if not nonexistent.

How many times have we watched the BLEEPing Steelers when one of their offensive lineman gets dinged up and has to sit out a series or two.  Their backup comes in and still pass blocks and run blocks with energy and great technique.  That’s depth.

The Bengals used to be deep on the defensive line.   A prime feature of the Mike Zimmer defense was rotating fresh defensive lineman in and out of the entire game. You need to have depth to do that.  When Andy Dalton went down in late 2015, I thought AJ McCarron did a fantastic job backing him up.  Heck, AJ McCarron almost won a playoff game!

A depth chart is for more than just deciding in which “string” a player belongs.

I can't remember for sure what team it was ? I believe it was last year like mid season, could have been the year before ? It all jumbles together when you get on the backside of 50. Anyways

The narrative going into game was both of our opponents starting OT's were out, our Dline is gonna have a field day ! We had nothing even close to a field day and I'm thinking we lost.

You see examples of this all around the league. Yet we lose one guy and it's kaput, it's over. I think a lot of this can be attributed to mindset, culture, heart. It's ingrained deep in the heart and soul of this team. Look at how we lay down vs. the Steelers and have for years.

Somebody, somehow, someway has to step up and end it.

Chad Johnson put a good dent in it  :andy:

(11-01-2019, 09:35 AM)jason Wrote: The Saints are another team that proves the OP's point about depth. Not only did Brees miss 6 games, Alvin Kamara just missed 2. Having Bridgewater, and Latavius Murray around really came in handy. The Bengals had some pretty good depth between 2013-2015. Now; not so much. They started the year with 3 tackles on the roster. One of them they wanted to switch to guard. Another was Bobby Hart.

Indeed. This just isn't a good team...despite fans trying to say that with AJ Green we'd have like 4 wins.

No way. Too many issues.

And other teams lose equally good players to Green...and still win.

(11-01-2019, 09:36 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is a great post.

The Cincinnati Bengals treat backup players like fodder and that’s an issue.  Other teams consider backups “starters waiting to happen” so when an actual starter goes down, the fall off in quality of play is minimal if not nonexistent.

How many times have we watched the BLEEPing Steelers when one of their offensive lineman gets dinged up and has to sit out a series or two.  Their backup comes in and still pass blocks and run blocks with energy and great technique.  That’s depth.

The Bengals used to be deep on the defensive line.   A prime feature of the Mike Zimmer defense was rotating fresh defensive lineman in and out of the entire game. You need to have depth to do that.  When Andy Dalton went down in late 2015, I thought AJ McCarron did a fantastic job backing him up.  Heck, AJ McCarron almost won a playoff game!

A depth chart is for more than just deciding in which “string” a player belongs.

The Steelers lost Leveon Bell, Antonio Brown, and Ben Roethlisberger over the past 2 years...and still destroyed us on MNF with a backup QB.

IF the Bengals lost Dalton, Mixon, and Green...fans would be like 'No one can win without those guys!'

(11-01-2019, 10:03 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The 49ers, like the Patriots, Chiefs, and Saints, know how to change up playcalling to adapt to which players are healthy. Their running game when they played the Bengals was a work of art. And they didn't have Coleman for that game either.

Indeed. The Bengals seem to roll out the same gameplan every week. Which, in that case you need superior talent because you're losing so much with scheme.

(11-01-2019, 10:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I can't remember for sure what team it was ? I believe it was last year like mid season, could have been the year before ? It all jumbles together when you get on the backside of 50. Anyways

The narrative going into game was both of our opponents starting OT's were out, our Dline is gonna have a field day ! We had nothing even close to a field day and I'm thinking we lost.

You see examples of this all around the league. Yet we lose one guy and it's kaput, it's over. I think a lot of this can be attributed to mindset, culture, heart. It's ingrained deep in the heart and soul of this team. Look at how we lay down vs. the Steelers and have for years.

Somebody, somehow, someway has to step up and end it.

Chad Johnson put a good dent in it  :andy:

It is a culture thing. When a GM that hasn't won a playoff game for 28+ years hires an inexperienced HC and inexperienced staff...players know.

I think our players want to win...but they've grown comfortable losing. They're probably not pushed that hard.

For Dalton to be shocked by being benched says a lot. This is a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years and is 0-8. That tells me that they're all comfortable.

(11-01-2019, 11:11 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. The Bengals seem to roll out the same gameplan every week. Which, in that case you need superior talent because you're losing so much with scheme.

Not only that, but their depth is so bad and/or different skillset that they can't afford to have hardly any injuries.

(11-01-2019, 11:09 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Steelers lost Leveon Bell, Antonio Brown, and Ben Roethlisberger over the past 2 years...and still destroyed us on MNF with a backup QB.

IF the Bengals lost Dalton, Mixon, and Green...fans would be like 'No one can win without those guys!'

I have to say, that game vs the Steelers was super extra awful.  The first time we ever get to play the Steelers without Pig Ben and we respond by losing by more than we usually do.  So much for ZT not being scared of the Steelers, like Marvin was.  And to think, I thought we'd beat a backup QB on a 0-win Steelers team and say "Mission accomplished!  The Steelers are no more!"

Shows what I know.

(11-01-2019, 11:15 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Not only that, but their depth is so bad and/or different skillset that they can't afford to have hardly any injuries.

Yes. Our depth at WR is one exception. With Boyd, Ross, Tate, and Erickson...IF we had a great system like the Rams...we should have been able to withstand that.

Teams like the Saints and Rams throw to a bunch of different WR's. TE's. RB's.

Here...we hardly used our RB's and TE's in the passing game.

(11-01-2019, 11:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. Our depth at WR is one exception. With Boyd, Ross, Tate, and Erickson...IF we had a great system like the Rams...we should have been able to withstand that.

Teams like the Saints and Rams throw to a bunch of different WR's. TE's. RB's.

Here...we hardly used our RB's and TE's in the passing game.

Let's compare target share between WRs, RBs, and TEs between the Bengals and a team like the Chiefs.

The Bengals weapons actually have more targets than Chiefs do (325 vs 288).

Bengals:
WR - 222 (68%)
TE - 52 (16%)
RB - 50 (15%)
QB - 1

Chiefs:
WR - 156 (54%)
TE - 73 (25%)
RB - 59 (20%)

EDIT: Saints are similar to Chiefs in regards to WRs but utilize RBs more than TEs.
50% distribution to WRs.
28% to RB/FB.
17% to TE.
4% to Taysom Hill.