(10-09-2015, 02:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I voted "maybe so" in the poll BTW.

Me too, and I agree with what you said previously.

(10-10-2015, 02:54 PM)BengalChris Wrote: When you take a KO 8 yards deep in the endzone and return it to the 16, you get 24 return yards. Looks great in the individual return stats, but it's a bad play and costs the team 4 yards. Tate did that a lot last year and the boards lit up about it. 

Does the league really keep track of how deep in the end zone a return begins? I thought return yards start from the goal line unless your return isn't from the end zone.

(10-10-2015, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is why I always say that a player is better than many people here give him credit for.

Because you only pay attention to what the very small minority has to say?

Seems like a poor way to go about things.

The hate towards Tate is because he rarely makes a good play like he did on Sunday (that's actually the only one that I can even ever recall), and other people can perform much better at both positions (returner and receiver) as Tate does at one.

People say that we overreact because Tate makes good plays and not as many bad plays as people say, but the reason for that is because his bad plays hurt us much more than his good plays help us.

He has a very low ceiling to his play, which makes his floor much lower, as well. That means that, when he's returning kicks, we're just hoping that something very bad doesn't happen and we're never expecting, or even hoping for, a big play, or even a good one.

(10-10-2015, 08:30 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Because you only pay attention to what the very small minority has to say?

Seems like a poor way to go about things.

Who said anything about a very small minority?

68% of people answering the poll say either "yes" or "maybe so".

(10-10-2015, 03:02 PM)Utts Wrote: I bet Elon Musk would make lots of smart plays on ST too, but that wouldn't make him a good returner.

well guess you don;t know what is meant by a "good" returner.... i would educate you but i don;t feel like it right now.. maybe next time... 

Tate is...okay. He's got some positives and negatives:

Positive
Good hands
Doesn't fumble much
Generally gets decent yardage

Negative
Good for some real forehead slappers every now and then
Brings next to nothing as a WR (Sunday's big play notwithstanding)
Not really electric as a returner - he's not going to make the game breaking ST play

Ultimately, he's fairly reliable outside of a couple boneheaded plays every now and then. That said, we could definitely upgrade and try to find that returner who could be an x-factor. Those don't exactly grow on trees though. You either have to pay decent money (like the Ravens and Chargers have for Jacoby Jones) or you have to spend a quality pick on one.

(10-10-2015, 07:05 PM)type_stripe Wrote: Does the league really keep track of how deep in the end zone a return begins? I thought return yards start from the goal line unless your return isn't from the end zone.

Yes. They get credit from where the catch the ball. Even in the end zone.

(10-10-2015, 02:10 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: It's the fact they have made almost 0 effort to get better from a mediocre at best player. 
That is what drives people nuts. 
A 7th rounder on Alford is the biggest effort this team has made at getting better there. 

At some point you expect the team to want to upgrade...I mean, it isn't like replacing a LT or QB....it's a 5th WR and KR....

Bingo. They could at least make a serious effort to upgrade. They invested a measly 7th rounder in Alford, spent the whole offseason talking like he'd get a shot at the job, then they barely gave him any chances in preseason. That aspect is very frustrating. Like you said, it's not like we're talking about replacing a franchise cornerstone here.

Same with Nuge. Mediocre kicker, yet they don't even try to give him serious competition. Continuity is a good thing when it comes to your core players. Maintaining continuity with your mediocre/poor players, not so much. It seems mediocre players like Tate and Nuge have fantastic job security with the Bengals.

(10-10-2015, 10:58 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Tate is...okay. He's got some positives and negatives:

Positive
Good hands
Doesn't fumble much
Generally gets decent yardage

Negative
Good for some real forehead slappers every now and then
Brings next to nothing as a WR (Sunday's big play notwithstanding)
Not really electric as a returner - he's not going to make the game breaking ST play

Ultimately, he's fairly reliable outside of a couple boneheaded plays every now and then. That said, we could definitely upgrade and try to find that returner who could be an x-factor. Those don't exactly grow on trees though. You either have to pay decent money (like the Ravens and Chargers have for Jacoby Jones) or you have to spend a quality pick on one.

Probably what kills me the most about Tate, is his inability to see the field and make people miss in tight spaces. In a straight line, he's solid. But if he has to move laterally, he's toast. 
Hell, I think it was this last weekend or vs Baltimore he cut INTO defenders instead of staying on the outside by space. There was no one for 10 yards outside. 3 guys inside. Cut right into them. 

If the guy makes a play here and there thats all you can ask of a #5 or 6# WR.

And he does.

(10-10-2015, 11:29 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: If the guy makes a play here and there thats all you can ask of a #5 or 6# WR.

And he does.

And when he's largely a liability as a WR in between? 
When your WR gets hurt and he can't do a damn thing? 

I think every team in the league has mediocre players at the #5 WR position.

If you replace every average player on your team you are going to have more than 50% turnover every year. And mostly you are just going to bring in more average players.

(10-10-2015, 11:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Probably what kills me the most about Tate, is his inability to see the field and make people miss in tight spaces. In a straight line, he's solid. But if he has to move laterally, he's toast. 
Hell, I think it was this last weekend or vs Baltimore he cut INTO defenders instead of staying on the outside by space. There was no one for 10 yards outside. 3 guys inside. Cut right into them. 

Agreed, and that's where Pacman excels, but obviously he can't be the full-time return guy.

There's another reason they should look for a Tate upgrade. It would allow Jones to concentrate fully on his primary job and lessen his chances of getting injured.

If they want an electric return guy enough to risk losing their starting CB, then why haven't they tried to find someone like that during the offseason? It's puzzling.

(10-10-2015, 11:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think every team in the league has mediocre players at the #5 WR position.

If you replace every average player on your team you are going to have more than 50% turnover every year.  And mostly you are just going to bring in more average players.

Not true. You don't have to replace them all at once. But you should occasionally TRY to get marginally better. 

(10-10-2015, 11:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agreed, and that's where Pacman excels, but obviously he can't be the full-time return guy.

There's another reason they should look for a Tate upgrade. It would allow Jones to concentrate fully on his primary job and lessen his chances of getting injured.

If they want an electric return guy enough to risk losing their starting CB, then why haven't they tried to find someone like that during the offseason? It's puzzling.

Truly is. 

I keep seeing people say Tate is our #5 or #6 WR.

He's #4 on the depth chart and out of Tate, Little and Alford, Tate is the only one who has taken an offensive snap.

Tate is our #4 WR and there are dozens of #4 guys who are better than him.

Anyone arguing Tate is a good receiver after 1 catch didn't watch a single game in 2014.

(10-10-2015, 11:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Tate is our #4 WR and there are dozens of #4 guys who are better than him.

No there are not.

(10-11-2015, 12:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No there are not.

Oh you got him good in hyperbole that time fred. You showed him

(10-10-2015, 03:02 PM)Utts Wrote: I bet Elon Musk would make lots of smart plays on ST too, but that wouldn't make him a good returner.

Probably not, most nerds/brainy types like him (and myself) are terrible in such situations despite high "intelligence".  Still your underlying point is valid, "smart" plays are not enough.