He has value now already. If he goes in again and gets hurt then he has zero.

I'f Finley is benched put in Dolegala.

(11-19-2019, 02:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He turned down starting opportunities last offseason to be Brees backup. I feel like he wouldn't come here.

Most likely the case, but that's the type/price range of QB that would make a good stop gap.

(11-19-2019, 02:18 PM)scorp1974 Wrote: He has value now already.  If he goes in again and gets hurt then he has zero.

I'f Finley is benched put in Dolegala.

That would be my move.....

Not starting the obvious better QB on the roster sends the message to current player and any player that may even think of coming here that we have a staff that is OK with not trying to win. The optics and the message we are sending look even worse than our 0-10 record already does...it's a one two punch.

Come to the Bengals, where if we start losing we might just sit guys and give up!

(11-19-2019, 10:10 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Please read this entire post before flaming me.

Yes, it's true.  Andy Dalton needs to start one or two more games for the Cincinnati Bengals in 2019.  I'm not against Ryan Finley so don't misunderstand; this is about the future of the team.  It's painfully obvious to all observers that the Bengals have a multiplicity of issues:  Coaching, personnel, and scheme.  Simply going after Tua Tagovailoa, Jalen Hurts, or Joe Burrow will solve next to nothing, unfortunately, because this team is more than just a new quarterback away from success.  If it were up to me I would fire every coach except for special teams and take a blowtorch to the entire roster -- but that's not Mike Brown's way.  Therefore, working within the confines imposed by the Front Office, let's look at a realistic way to begin the rebuild in Cincinnati.

First of all, every coach will likely be retained in 2020.  Mikey Boy will cite injuries and something about giving the new coaches a chance to turn it around taking more than one season.

With zero likely coaching changes, who can realistically be drafted, traded, or retained?

As of now I think the Bengals' best strategy is to build a shutdown defense around Chase Young from Ohio State.  He's the best defensive player I've seen in years and his impact in Cincinnati could mirror that of Nick Bosa in San Francisco.  Geno Atkins looked better against Oakland but he's not getting any younger.  He's going to need fast edge rushers so having Young on one side with Sam Hubbard on the other side would be a needed improvement to the Bengals' almost nonexistent pass rush.

So what about the quarterback position?  I know Mike Brown strikes at shiny objects faster than a hungry barracuda and a big arm quarterback, to Mike's eye, is the shiniest object there is.  I'm all for having Ryan Finley play more games in 2019 but, circling back to my original proposal I think it's time for Andy Dalton to play at least two more games as well.  Teams interested in Dalton need fresh film on him and the Bengals need to win just one game to avoid 0-16 which I find a wholly unacceptable record.  Also, since Dalton has one more year on his contract, he could potentially function as the "bridge" quarterback in 2020 while the Bengals look to Justin Fields or Trevor Lawrence -- or Tua Tagovailoa if he stays at Alabama -- in 2021.

If Andy Dalton does not play well in the late games there is a plethora of experienced quarterbacks worth consideration to be the "bridge" for Cincinnati in 2020.  Philip Rivers or even Eli Manning might be great "bridge" quarterbacks to bring in for a season; Drew Brees will be too expensive and Dak Prescott will stay in Dallas.  I would even consider bringing Jameis Winston in for a workout but, even better, what about taking a look at Cam Newton?  If he's healthy he can still compete.

Basically, Bengaldom, we have more options than just Andy Dalton, Ryan Finley, or falling into the trap of drafting a shiny object.

First of all, I firmly believe many players will tell the Bengals to not draft them with the #1 pick, starting with Burrows and Young. Why come to the Bungals, where the owner really doesn't give a shit when you can go to a team that wants to win but needs a few players?

Winston, and I live across the bay from Tampa, is a hard working QB who's had accuracy and INT problems his whole career, witness 4 INTs on Sunday. Newton won't come to Cinci for the same reasons that several top players in the draft will just say "I won't sign with the Bengals and if you draft me I'll re-enter the draft next season".

The team will draft a QB because that is what they do when they have a need at that position and have a high pick.

 

(11-19-2019, 02:52 PM)BengalChris Wrote: First of all, I firmly believe many players will tell the Bengals to not draft them with the #1 pick, starting with Burrows and Young. Why come to the Bungals, where the owner really doesn't give a shit when you can go to a team that wants to win but needs a few players?
 

I'd imagine any team that takes Burrow is going to have massive issues, but our issues are so longstanding and well known that the warning alarm has to be blaring in Burrow/Young's ears already.  

As for bringing a vet QB here, it could work but ZT benching Dalton might send a message that you are going to be put in a bad situation and then cast aside in favor of "anyone else."  If we don't draft a QB at #1 overall or thereabouts I don't see why next year we won't just see Dalton's replacement getting benched for Finley again when things go sideways. Or just "see what we have in Finley" all the way to another high draft pick. Sorry Mixon, you might be Frank Gore's age before we put a decent team on the field.

Damage has already been done with Dalton. If I'm Dalton and Taylor asks me to start again I laugh in his face.

(11-19-2019, 03:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd imagine any team that takes Burrow is going to have massive issues, but our issues are so longstanding and well known that the warning alarm has to be blaring in Burrow/Young's ears already.  

As for bringing a vet QB here, it could work but ZT benching Dalton might send a message that you are going to be put in a bad situation and then cast aside in favor of "anyone else."  If we don't draft a QB at #1 overall or thereabouts I don't see why next year we won't just see Dalton's replacement getting benched for Finley again when things go sideways. Or just "see what we have in Finley" all the way to another high draft pick. Sorry Mixon, you might be Frank Gore's age before we put a decent team on the field.

Mixon's strung together a coupla decent games... Now he can go ahead with his peabrain hold out next year.

I think they should hire Gruden and fire Taylor.

Bring back Hue too if they want.

Keep Dalton as starter for next season.

Tag AJ Green and work towards an extension.

Draft Young and try to at least fix the pass rush + linebacker problem.

Let Dalton walk after his contract is up if he's bad.

All of the above brings in stability and a commoness at coaching with easing some vet players attitudes.

It also could get them staff and coaches that are credible around the league to come here.

Fix the Defense.  Make the offense transition more slowly than this self destruct mode they're currently in.

I know my thoughts are unpopular but if they want to do things the Mike Brown screwy way and still get closer to success it's all I've got.

Taylor and his BS is going to take us on a worse ride than we've been on for a long time.

You'd better believe it.

(11-19-2019, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think Zac may think Ryan Tannehill is the guy to get us over the hill.

That is the think with Dalton. He isn't a winner when he is tossing the ball 30+ a game. He does better overall when he is around 25-30 attempts and more rushing plays. The issue is they simply went pass happy with Dalton under center. WHY? That killed the team and simply didn't give the TEAM any wins. 

I'm sure if Dalton had less than 30 attempts per a game and the team did more running plays the Bengals maybe sitting at 5-5 right and not 0-10. 

My issue isn't the players its the coaching. Other than the first game, its been very bland and vanilla. Its like they forgot that the season started and that they are still playing in the pre-season. 

1. We need A LOT more games to judge a rookie QB who did not even get first team reps in practice until 3 weeks ago.

2. No need to risk getting Dalton injured in a meaningless game. No matter what we do with him next year he will be more valuable if he is 100% healthy.

(11-19-2019, 03:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  We need A LOT more games to judge a rookie QB who did not even get first team reps in practice until 3 weeks ago.

2.  No need to risk getting Dalton injured in a meaningless game.  No matter what we do with him next year he will be more valuable if he is 100% healthy.

What Fred said!!

Make it stop

They should make Andy the OC and playcaller effective immediately. Its not like he could be worse, amirite or amirite.

I can't agree about the possibility of retaining all current assistant coaches. Everybody knows that the Bengals had their hearts so set on ZT, that they didn't want to even remotely come close to breaking any rules during the process of waiting for him to finish the Superbowl season with LA.

In the process of "abiding by all of the rules", they missed the boat on most of the available coaching candidates last season, but that certainly shouldn't be an issue this year. I feel like they just let ZT bring in a bunch of guys that he was comfortable with, simply to get up and running. I honestly believe that ZT will get the medium to long leash, when it comes to being given opportunity to turn things around, but not this crew of bush league castoffs working for him. No sir, all of those empty seats, those embarrassing banners that the remaining fans have been hanging in the stadium? That's the sort of thing that motivates the Brown family, as it not only hits them in the pocketbook, it hits them in their feelings. I look for plenty of wholesale changes coming, in terms of assistant coaches and most likely, player personnel.

With what I've already said in mind, I would like to add that I also think that the hammer of judgement has truly fallen on Andy Dalton. It seems quite obvious to me that he's not in the future plans, and a major (at least for the Bengals) roster makeover is about to happen. Now, sure it would be nice to see the young guys fighting for their roster lives to get a win or two, but I really don't see Andy as the guy to be appointed to lead those wins.

(11-19-2019, 04:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Make it stop

It won't until a QB takes us to 5 straight playoff appearances or at least wins a playoff game.

So..........

It's likely folk will be missing Dalton for years to come. One of those don't know what you got til it's gone type things.

Right now they are all in on the we know what we had in him and would rather lose (go 0-16). But losing 10+ games annually is going to get old eventually.

(11-19-2019, 03:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'd imagine any team that takes Burrow is going to have massive issues, but our issues are so longstanding and well known that the warning alarm has to be blaring in Burrow/Young's ears already.  

As for bringing a vet QB here, it could work but ZT benching Dalton might send a message that you are going to be put in a bad situation and then cast aside in favor of "anyone else."  If we don't draft a QB at #1 overall or thereabouts I don't see why next year we won't just see Dalton's replacement getting benched for Finley again when things go sideways.  Or just "see what we have in Finley" all the way to another high draft pick.  Sorry Mixon, you might be Frank Gore's age before we put a decent team on the field.

Sadly, I believe you are correct.

Mixon will be gone after next season. He's got no reason to stay here and ZT has already shown that he has no idea how to use Mixon to his fullest.

 

(11-19-2019, 02:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:

Now that we have two games from Ryan Finley, let's compare some stats.

Time to throw: 2.83 seconds (Dalton: 2.28)
Time in pocket: 3.01 seconds (Dalton: 2.39)
Under Pressure: 43% of dropbacks (Dalton: 31%)
Completion Percentage when under pressure: 64% (Dalton: 47%)

— Jeaux Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) November 19, 2019

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I wonder why he used completion % instead of passer rating? Completion % can be misleading if the guy is hitting a RB for a 2 yard gain on 3rd and 10 while the other QB is completing less while actually trying to move the sticks. Goodberry is a notorious Dalton hater and really dug deep to make Finley look better here.

To the OP, the bridge has been burned. They made their decision and going back on that now would look pretty dumb. The Dalton era is over. For better or worse, Finley is the guy for the remainder of the season, and Dalton deserves (and will request) a shot elsewhere after this season. You also don't keep a $17 million dollar backup. Not smart money. Not that Mike is smart with his money.

(11-19-2019, 08:09 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Sadly, I believe you are correct.

Mixon will be gone after next season. He's got no reason to stay here and ZT has already shown that he has no idea how to use Mixon to his fullest.

 

We're messing with Mixon's money, making him look bad behind terrible blocking and schemes. He's shown his potential (under Pollack) already. If I were him, I'd be ghost as soon as my contract was up, and I really think he will be. I guess that may be why we signed Gio to big money. Otherwise, Gio's contract makes little sense as we've barely used him.

(11-19-2019, 08:42 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: We're messing with Mixon's money, making him look bad behind terrible blocking and schemes. He's shown his potential (under Pollack) already. If I were him, I'd be ghost as soon as my contract was up, and I really think he will be. I guess that may be why we signed Gio to big money. Otherwise, Gio's contract makes little sense as we've barely used him.

What's changed in 2 and a half years from when nobody but us would draft Mixon? He's had one good season in the NFL, and plays the most expendable position in the game. I don't disagree that he'll leave, but I doubt he's gonna have a ton of suitors backing up the Brink's truck to his door.