(12-02-2019, 10:05 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: They win a game with Dalton and now people think the team should wait a while to get a QB.  The Bengals lost 13 straight with Dalton at QB, have not won a playoff game with Dalton...ever.  Dalton is not the going to be on this team next year and Finley may have played himself off this team

Bengals will draft one of these three QB:
Burrow-the right choice IMO
Tua-injured first rounder, but has the tools to be special if healthy.  Sounds like something Bengals would do.
Herbert- Strong armed QB that Mike Brown seems to like, has the tools to be all pro but the fortitude and consistency of a gnat.  

Herbert is the type of QB Mike Brown likes.  Herbert is not a good fit with the Bengals.  So odds are in his favor to be selected by the Bengals, even if Tua and Burrow are there.  It would not surprise me one bit.

Burrow is probably the next great QB.  His mentality and fortitude is next level.  Get him RT and RG.  Kick Glenn to LG and with Williams, the line will be better.

Right on ! We just beat one of the worst teams in the NFL and people (some anyways) are kinda acting like the team is now fixed. I get it we're dying for something positive.

But pump the brakes a little. Dalton is still Dalton. Our defense is still bad and so on.

We need Burrow

(12-02-2019, 12:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: re: Chase Young - I know he's special and he's likely overrated due to being from OSU on this board...but I'll look past that.

We have Dunlap, Hubbard, and Lawson. How do you use Young and still get Hubbard, Dunlap, and Lawson on the field? So you take Young and likely take Lawson off the field? I guess you could move Hubbard inside like they did as a rookie...but he struggled there.

I know you need to rest guys, but it just seems like DE isn't a critical need.

LB, OL, starting TE, QB, and maybe a Safety that can cover is what I'd put our needs at.

you can go ahead and look past Young all you want. He IS the real deal and wherever he lands he will make a BIG impact with any team. You know, like both Bosa men! As for being overrated, only in your eyes!

(12-02-2019, 09:43 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Billy Price.

Funny you say that. So I just got to work and was thinking about this post and remember the bust that is Billy. So one first rounder on an OSU player in how long? We arent a factory of OSU players like some make it out to be. 

(12-02-2019, 10:03 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Here's the thing:

This team is not as bad as its record. They rightfully shouldn't be at the top of the draft with the talent they have.

6 of their 11 losses were by a touchdown or less. If Dalton played the last two weeks (Oakland and Pittsburgh) they almost certainly win those games.

And next year they will be playing a last place schedule which means they'll play the Dolphins and Chargers/Broncos (as well as the entire AFC South, which includes the Jaguars).

Next year the Bengals will also be playing the NFC East. That division currently doesn't have a team above .500. The Redskins, Giants and Eagles are all weak, beatable teams. And Dallas doesn't look that much better either.

They'll also be in their second year with this coaching staff (unless they fire some people, but if they finish strong this season I don't see that happening) with AJ Green likely coming back (if he doesn't then that just means they were idiots for not trading him) and Jonah Williams coming back to further stabilize the Oline. Not to mention another year of draft picks that will hopefully contribute at least somewhat more than the veterans they replace.


Why am I saying all this? Because the odds of the Bengals having a top pick next year are relatively low. They have, at the bare minimum, 5 to 6 very very winnable games on the schedule next year and that's if they don't improve at all from this year to next. This team has been competitive in the majority of its losses and would have more wins if we didn't try the Finley experiment in the middle there (not that I'm complaining).

So, as a franchise, when you have the opportunity to draft the QB of the future in a lost year where everything went wrong under a rookie head coach with a 32 year old starting QB on the last year of his contract (going into 2020) who has never been elite...YOU TAKE IT.

Stop over evaluating this and looking to the 2021 draft for the potential QB solution, especially when the odds are they won't be nearly this bad in 2020. They have one staring them in the face right now (unless they foolishly win 3 games in the final 5 weeks). Don't look a gift horse in the mouth and don't talk yourself out of the future of your franchise. This is their shot to change this franchise for the next decade. Being at the top of the draft is very rare, after all (2020 will only be their 3rd top 5 pick in the last 19 years).

This.

This team consistently plays below the level of talent on the roster and I assign the blame for that to an organization-wide lack of competitive spirit.
Mike Brown has embedded this into the culture and since he and family are not going to go away anytime soon, It is up to the coaching staff and team leaders to get these guys to play hungry every week.

Taylor and staff have failed in this regard for the most part to this point and many of the players looked at as leaders have been failing at this for years. Joe Burrow looks like he would bring the type of competitive energy that we need here, but of course it is always a different ballgame once guys move up to the NFL level. Maybe he gets here and gets "Bungalized" like the rest, but I think we have to try.

The Bengals will go with a QB. There are hurdles though because which is the best QB will be up to our front office and it might not be the guy you think. And whoever the pick is will have to agree to play for Mike Brown, which is in doubt.

(12-02-2019, 11:34 AM)HuDey Wrote: This.

This team consistently plays below the level of talent on the roster and I assign the blame for that to an organization-wide lack of competitive spirit.
Mike Brown has embedded this into the culture and since he and family are not going to go away anytime soon, It is up to the coaching staff and team leaders to get these guys to play hungry every week.

Taylor and staff have failed in this regard for the most part to this point and many of the players looked at as leaders have been failing at this for years. Joe Burrow looks like he would bring the type of competitive energy that we need here, but of course it is always a different ballgame once guys move up to the NFL level. Maybe he gets here and gets "Bungalized" like the rest, but I think we have to try.

Indeed

MB wants to win....sure he "wants" to win. But he doesn't demand it, he doesn't covet it, he doesn't put it up on the shelf of the only acceptable outcome. And that trickles down thru the entire team.

Make no mistake about it, folks. QB is still a HUGE need for this team. I admit I wouldn’t hate having a generational talent like Chase Young, I think drafting a potential franchise QB is a better idea.

If they go the Chase Young route, I wouldn’t hate Jake Fromm in the second.

Draft Burrow or stick with Dalton and use the 2nd pick to bolster the Oline.

Drafting any other QB is a wasted pick, imo.

(12-02-2019, 12:56 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: re: Chase Young - I know he's special and he's likely overrated due to being from OSU on this board...but I'll look past that.

We have Dunlap, Hubbard, and Lawson. How do you use Young and still get Hubbard, Dunlap, and Lawson on the field? So you take Young and likely take Lawson off the field? I guess you could move Hubbard inside like they did as a rookie...but he struggled there.

I know you need to rest guys, but it just seems like DE isn't a critical need.

LB, OL, starting TE, QB, and maybe a Safety that can cover is what I'd put our needs at.

I don’t think he is overrated at all, he is the top rated talent by almost every draft guru.  He is elite!  Teams need 4-5 elite players to compete for the Super Bowl!  The SOP lead bungles currently have Zero!
The Jets have given up the most sacks in the NFL.  Having elite talent gets you pressure every week.  Two or three weeks ago the bungles were averaging one sack a game with these DEs, that just have to be on the field.
If there is an elite player available at LB, OL, or QB take him at 1, but is Burrow elite?
The Clowns took Mayfield #1, is he elite?

(12-02-2019, 10:03 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Here's the thing:

This team is not as bad as its record. They rightfully shouldn't be at the top of the draft with the talent they have.

I agree with this.   I think we'll win 2-3 more games and take ourselves out of the Burrow lottery.

If Burrow's there I think we'll take him - and should.    He's like Andy with better accuracy and better post snap performance.

But I do not believe we'll have a shot at him, because I do not believe we'll pick #1.

We might have a shot at Tua - who is also a heck of a QB.   But they'll have to be convinced he's not a medical risk.

And there's the possibility we draft as low as 5 if we start putting together the wins. 

Regardless I do not believe we'll draft #1, which will open up a whole new discussion.

My safe elite prospects are:
Chase Young
Andrew Thomas
Jeffrey Okudah
Jerry Jeudy
Derrick Brown (as a DT)

My ONLY hesitation with Burrow is only having 1 year of elite performance. With that said, he's shown elite ability this year, so there's a lot of optimism that that's who he will be in the NFL.
I have more confidence in Burrow as a NFL QB than I did Dalton coming out of college.

My only concern with Tagovailoa is his health. Otherwise, he's a very safe selection too IMO. If his medicals check out, I wouldn't be surprised to see him taken before any QB not named Burrow.

If the Bengals select in the Top 3 (likely), I want it to be one of Burrow, Young, or Thomas.
If selecting 4-6, I want it to be Okudah, Jeudy, or Brown (or Tua if healthy).

(12-02-2019, 01:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My safe elite prospects are:
Chase Young
Andrew Thomas
Jeffrey Okudah
Jerry Jeudy
Derrick Brown (as a DT)

My ONLY hesitation with Burrow is only having 1 year of elite performance. With that said, he's shown elite ability this year, so there's a lot of optimism that that's who he will be in the NFL.
I have more confidence in Burrow as a NFL QB than I did Dalton coming out of college.

My only concern with Tagovailoa is his health. Otherwise, he's a very safe selection too IMO. If his medicals check out, I wouldn't be surprised to see him taken before any QB not named Burrow.

If the Bengals select in the Top 3 (likely), I want it to be one of Burrow, Young, or Thomas.
If selecting 4-6, I want it to be Okudah, Jeudy, or Brown (or Tua if healthy).

You know I went into the OSU vs Michigan game wanting to focus on Young Dobbins Fields Harrison and Browning but came away more impressed by Jeff Okudah. Hes gonna be a shut down corner in the NFL.

(12-02-2019, 01:13 PM)ochocincos Wrote: My safe elite prospects are:
Chase Young
Andrew Thomas
Jeffrey Okudah
Jerry Jeudy
Derrick Brown (as a DT)

My ONLY hesitation with Burrow is only having 1 year of elite performance. With that said, he's shown elite ability this year, so there's a lot of optimism that that's who he will be in the NFL.
I have more confidence in Burrow as a NFL QB than I did Dalton coming out of college.

My only concern with Tagovailoa is his health. Otherwise, he's a very safe selection too IMO. If his medicals check out, I wouldn't be surprised to see him taken before any QB not named Burrow.

If the Bengals select in the Top 3 (likely), I want it to be one of Burrow, Young, or Thomas.
If selecting 4-6, I want it to be Okudah, Jeudy, or Brown (or Tua if healthy).

How is Isiah Simmons not on this list?

I would trade #1 for multiple early round picks. Build up an o-line with these picks. We have Mixon as a feature-back and a full year for the line to create chemistry. Once that is set, I would aim for a QB. With the incosistency of this current o-line, it won't matter who you put in at QB, they will suffer.

I still prefer that kid from Clemson over anything this draft has to offer.

(12-02-2019, 12:37 PM)Nickslycat Wrote: I don’t think he is overrated at all, he is the top rated talent by almost every draft guru.  He is elite!  Teams need 4-5 elite players to compete for the Super Bowl!  The SOP lead bungles currently have Zero!
The Jets have given up the most sacks in the NFL.  Having elite talent gets you pressure every week.  Two or three weeks ago the bungles were averaging one sack a game with these DEs, that just have to be on the field.
If there is an elite player available at LB, OL, or QB take him at 1, but is Burrow elite?
The Clowns took Mayfield #1, is he elite?

I feel like in addition to elite players you have to not have bad starters to compete for SB's.

Our issues are at both ends of the spectrum.

(12-02-2019, 01:02 PM)3wt Wrote: I agree with this.   I think we'll win 2-3 more games and take ourselves out of the Burrow lottery.

If Burrow's there I think we'll take him - and should.    He's like Andy with better accuracy and better post snap performance.

But I do not believe we'll have a shot at him, because I do not believe we'll pick #1.

We might have a shot at Tua - who is also a heck of a QB.   But they'll have to be convinced he's not a medical risk.

And there's the possibility we draft as low as 5 if we start putting together the wins. 

Regardless I do not believe we'll draft #1, which will open up a whole new discussion.

So we've dealt with our share of prospects with medical issues in the past. Wow IF we ended up drafting Tua...how Bengals of a thing that would be.

I could also see us taking Herbert at 3. He has a HUGE arm. He's kind of like a Goff/Wentz. You decide if that's good or bad.

(12-02-2019, 02:15 PM)Interceptor Wrote: I would trade #1 for multiple early round picks. Build up an o-line with these picks. We have Mixon as a feature-back and a full year for the line to create chemistry. Once that is set, I would aim for a QB. With the incosistency of this current o-line, it won't matter who you put in at QB, they will suffer.

I still prefer that kid from Clemson over anything this draft has to offer.

I like your plan but their is no guarantee that we will have the first overall pick next year. 

(12-02-2019, 02:21 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I like your plan but their is no guarantee that we will have the first overall pick next year. 

Start Finley. 

(12-02-2019, 02:27 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Start Finley. 

The football gods would rip our hearts out with Finley getting 4-5 wins ala Dalton. 

(12-02-2019, 10:11 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: There is a possibility the Dolphins like Tua better.  I think Tua or Hurts will be a Charger next year but the Dolphins could shock the world and take Tua with a swap with Bengals.  

Considering his injury history and the WRs he played with at Bama, I would be shocked if Miami wanted Tua over Burrow.  When they are all evaluated at the combine, I think he will fall quite a bit.