Everybody that has been a Bengals fan for any length of time at all knows Mike Brown's M.O. He loathes change, he stays the course, and has legendary stubbornness !

Over the last 4 and 1/2 seasons not counting finale this season, this team is 24-46-1. And during that span we have like two maybe three wins against teams that have finished .500 or better. Several don't seem to want to admit it but this team had not been anything close to good for quite some time ! This isn't in any way a defense of ZT but he inherited a pretty big clunker.

Will MB and co. admit it's time to rebuild and actually embrace it ? Seems to me he hates to admit failure. But it's 100% time to swallow his pride and get down to business.

This team needs a bunch of help, that's a no brainer. But MB just doesn't historically operate with big change in mind.

Will MB trade Andy Dalton and couple others to gain draft picks ? Will he let ZT release/trade the deadwood ? Will MB actually get a real free agent or two ?

This team isn't just a couple players away, it's 10 or 12. It's not gonna be a quick turn around. Will MB put the change on FF or will he drag his feet and just make it that much longer ?

Three key Free Agents could make this team go a long way. There are good skill position players and a little more beef on the offensive line, plus help at LB and safety would really bring up this team.

Nah..Mikey only wants to beat the Browns again. Once that's accomplished that's good enough even if the Browns wholesale all their players off for wholesale prices on paper bags with eyeholes in them again.. 

(12-28-2019, 01:11 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Three key Free Agents could make this team go a long way.  There are good skill position players and a little more beef on the offensive line, plus help at LB and safety would really bring up this team.

This. People act like there is zero talent on this team. We have an excellent Dline, a pretty good defensive backfield with young players stepping up for playing time. We have a pretty good TE room, could use a receiver or 2. #1 Special Teams unit in the league. A couple of players on Oline and an upgrade at linebacker and this team can compete with anyone. 

To me we are a little behind on starting this rebuild but expecting proactive or even active movements from Mikey B. is begging for disappointment. I say he continues to drag his feet and only trades Dalton if Andy throws a fit and threatens to Palmer his old ass.

As soon as Mike Brown sets his mind to it we'll all chip in to build a 70 foot tall statue of him on Fountain Square..built from the corpses of former bengals who have expired over the years.. 

(12-28-2019, 01:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Everybody that has been a Bengals fan for any length of time at all knows Mike Brown's M.O. He loathes change, he stays the course, and has legendary stubbornness !

Over the last 4 and 1/2 seasons not counting finale this season, this team is 24-46-1. And during that span we have like two maybe three wins against teams that have finished .500 or better. Several don't seem to want to admit it but this team had not been anything close to good for quite some time ! This isn't in any way a defense of ZT but he inherited a pretty big clunker.

Will MB and co. admit it's time to rebuild and actually embrace it ? Seems to me he hates to admit failure. But it's 100% time to swallow his pride and get down to business.

This team needs a bunch of help, that's a no brainer. But MB just doesn't historically operate with big change in mind.

Will MB trade Andy Dalton and couple others to gain draft picks ? Will he let ZT release/trade the deadwood ? Will MB actually get a real free agent or two ?

This team isn't just a couple players away, it's 10 or 12. It's not gonna be a quick turn around. Will MB put the change on FF or will he drag his feet and just make it that much longer ?

The rebuild era's of the old days are over. Any NFL team can reinvent itself within 2 years if they put forward the effort. The difference of getting a win or loss each week is not as big as some understand. A 10 point loss can literally be 2 plays in a game, 8 or less one play away.

Bengals need to add some talent no doubt and coach better in 2020. But in the past 20 years teams have gone from below .500 to a Super Bowl in on year. No different, teams go the other was as well like the Rams who went from Super Bowl to no playoffs. Why? The reason I stated above, the talent level is not as far off as some would like to believe.

Would our defense be better playing with a 2 score lead? Maybe as we do have some pass rushers like Dunlap, Geno and Hubbard with Lawson developing? Same for our offense, would they better playing ahead versus behind a couple of score? Maybe.

We need our #1 pick in 2019 to solidify LT in 2020. We need to get AJ back for 2020 to help a rookie QB progress, keep Boyd and Ross on the field with AJ, add in Mixon and we have the weapons on offense.

On defense, we lack the huge playmaker. We have some good defensive players, but lack that guy who makes a huge play to end the game.

My point though is you can rebuild a veteran roster like we have, add in a great rookie class and a few free agents and we can compete quickly (no rebuild),

My, aren't we feeling all chippy and optimistic already? The 1-14 season isn't even over and we're already on our way to laying waste to the rest of the league.. I find you all a bit amusing if not delusional, but enjoy yourselves for the time being.. Who am I to deny you your fantasies? Just don't forget who is the bengals lord and master.. Hint: It rhymes with Dike Drown..

(12-28-2019, 01:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This. People act like there is zero talent on this team. We have an excellent Dline, a pretty good defensive backfield with young players stepping up for playing time. We have a pretty good TE room, could use a receiver or 2. #1 Special Teams unit in the league. A couple of players on Oline and an upgrade at linebacker and this team can compete with anyone. 

No one is saying there's zero talent on this team, however:

Geno Atkins - 11th season next year
Carlos Dunlap - 11th
AJ Green - 10th season next year and has serious injury history.
John Ross - is poster child of unreliability
Dre Kirkpatrick - 9th season and is among the leagues worst tacklers at DB, among other things.
Bobby Hart is just bad
Cordy Glenn I just don't trust.

We need two or three LBers

And the list goes on.

The bengals kind of remind me of some old radio episode.. Dike Drown, the master schemer quickly realizes his mistakes and commits to making the same mistakes over...and over...and over...and over until one day much to everyone's chagrin he lives forever instead of just dying..  Stay tuned to next weeks exciting episode when Dike makes the same mistakes over...and over..and over...and over...   

(12-28-2019, 01:35 PM)grampahol Wrote: My, aren't we feeling all chippy and optimistic already? The 1-14 season isn't even over and we're already on our way to laying waste to the rest of the league.. I find you all a bit amusing if not delusional, but enjoy yourselves for the time being.. Who am I to deny you your fantasies? Just don't forget who is the bengals lord and master.. Hint: It rhymes with Dike Drown..

If only we could find your posts amusing? You were funny in the past, but now you have just become a grumpy old man.

(12-28-2019, 01:08 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Over the last 4 and 1/2 seasons not counting finale this season, this team is 24-46-1.

This team isn't just a couple players away, it's 10 or 12. It's not gonna be a quick turn around. Will MB put the change on FF or will he drag his feet and just make it that much longer ?

+1.

I think the Bengals are also about ten new coaches away from being competitive again. I don’t see the current staff getting this team back to 0.500 inside of five years.

(12-28-2019, 01:49 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If only we could find your posts amusing? You were funny in the past, but now you have just become a grumpy old man.

As opposed to some people who believe the bengals are suddenly going to alter course and do something to shock the football world and make Mikey the all seeing eye of the league.. 

(12-28-2019, 01:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The rebuild era's of the old days are over. Any NFL team can reinvent itself within 2 years if they put forward the effort.

This.  It does not make sense to get rid of quality players who can help us win in 2021.  What are the chances of replacing Dunlap and Atkins with equal quality in free agency or the draft?

Lots of free agents flop because teams re-sign their best players.  And even the best teams have high draft picks that flop.

The Bengals obviously have to make several moves to improve the talent level on this team, but I think it is a bad idea to get rid of every good player and think we can just easily replace them in the draft or free agency.

If you aren't rebuilding after this season when exactly would you do it ?

(12-28-2019, 01:11 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Three key Free Agents could make this team go a long way.  There are good skill position players and a little more beef on the offensive line, plus help at LB and safety would really bring up this team.

Each of the past many years could have been better with a few key free agents. People bring this up every off-season, or in the case of abysmal seasons like this one, before the season has ended. Yet, the front office continues to do nothing substantial or effective to bring in outside talent.

This team supplies other teams with talent in exchange for mid-round comp picks and Mikey is just happy as a clam with that arrangement.

 

(12-28-2019, 01:38 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: No one is saying there's zero talent on this team, however:

Geno Atkins - 11th season next year
Carlos Dunlap - 11th
AJ Green - 10th season next year and has serious injury history.
John Ross - is poster child of unreliability
Dre Kirkpatrick - 9th season and is among the leagues worst tacklers at DB, among other things.
Bobby Hart is just bad
Cordy Glenn I just don't trust.

We need two or three LBers

And the list goes on.

Geno Atkins - 11th season next year=Billings, Topou, Glasgow
Carlos Dunlap - 11th= Lawson, Hubbard
AJ Green - 10th season next year and has serious injury history.= We'll draft some receivers this year
John Ross - is poster child of unreliability= We'll draft some receivers this year
Dre Kirkpatrick - 9th season and is among the leagues worst tacklers at DB, among other things.= We have several outstanding young CB's progressing
Bobby Hart is just bad= Johnson will probably take his job
Cordy Glenn I just don't trust.= Jonah Williams will be back next year

We need two or three LBers= Pratt I getting better each game, and as his play progresses, so does Vigil's ( who is nowhere near as bad as he is made out to be on this board) We'll draft a linebacker this year

(12-28-2019, 01:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This. People act like there is zero talent on this team. We have an excellent Dline, a pretty good defensive backfield with young players stepping up for playing time. We have a pretty good TE room, could use a receiver or 2. #1 Special Teams unit in the league. A couple of players on Oline and an upgrade at linebacker and this team can compete with anyone. 

Agreed.

Six or seven games we were within a score. And I think I read somewhere we ended up with one of the hardest sos's. We had some guys step up this season, and a few guys show their basically not a long term option. If we upgrade a few spots, we'll be fine. Not playoffs next season, but good enough to win those single score games.

(12-28-2019, 02:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.  It does not make sense to get rid of quality players who can help us win in 2021.  What are the chances of replacing Dunlap and Atkins with equal quality in free agency or the draft?

Lots of free agents flop because teams re-sign their best players.  And even the best teams have high draft picks that flop.

The Bengals obviously have to make several moves to improve the talent level on this team, but I think it is a bad idea to get rid of every good player and think we can just easily replace them in the draft or free agency.

Fred standing pat with all the players under contract is one of MB's bigger flaws. Sure you don't cut/trade all of them. The key is knowing who it's time to move on from and who it's better to keep.

Are Atkins and Dunlap still gonna be at the top of their game 2 or 3 years from now ? Is AJ worth it ?

(12-28-2019, 01:49 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: +1.

I think the Bengals are also about ten new coaches away from being competitive again.  I don’t see the current staff getting this team back to 0.500 inside of five years.

My fear is you're exactly right but I doubt anything changes on that front in the short term.