Dalton wants to leave and start elsewhere and MB isn't known for rewarding players by setting them free. I could see Dalton on the bench looking glum all year. He's got a contract to fulfill, after all.

(12-30-2019, 12:20 PM)grampahol Wrote: How other teams use him if he's traded is anyone's guess. Of course other teams owe him zero loyalty. He's never played for any of them.
I think there's plenty of other teams who would jump at the chance for Andy and a few who might even mortgage their futures on the chance he returns to 2015 form. It's not like the Bengals are the only team that ever makes dumb moves..

I know Cincy is a small market team but there is plenty of film on him and people can see what they are getting. I believe the Patriots or Dallas are perfect fits for what Dalton needs to win, top notch o-line and run game, things he didn't have or was going to ever get here. 

(12-30-2019, 12:21 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry, bud, but watching the Bengals on offense, you saw virtually NO downfield shots because of a lack of outside speed and not enough time to get downfield.  Dalton isn't sacked a lot because of his quick release and the offense being designed to get the ball out quickly.  While that is ok on the surface, it tremendously limits what an offense can do and makes it easier for a defense to attack when they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top.  

He does not have a "fine" supporting crew.  He has the worst offensive line in football.  

How can you not comprehend how a bad defense hurts a QB?  Brady played like CRAP for most of the game against Cincy, but his defense KEPT GETTING HIM THE BALL.  Piggy made a living of this.  

As far as clicking on all cylinders goes, they were doing that in 2015 when his rating was over 100.  That was a team with weapons and an offensive line.  

History has shown me there's no use continuing this sort of debate with a member of the Army. The "worst offensive line" in the NFL is a made up matrix by PFF and guess what it relies heavily upon: The performance of the QB. 

But you and others roll with teams standing in line to take on a $17 Mil contract for a 33 year old QB, who has crapped the bed in the post season, entering his 10th year, and coming off a season in which he was the worst NFL QB of those that qualified for rating. Personally, I hope a team takes a chance and we meet that team in the playoffs. 

(12-30-2019, 12:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: History has shown me there's no use continuing this sort of debate with a member of the Army. The "worst offensive line" in the NFL is a made up matrix by PFF and guess what it relies heavily upon: The performance of the QB. 

But you and others roll with teams standing in line to take on a $17 Mil contract for a 33 year old QB, who has crapped the bed in the post season, entering his 10th year, and coming off a season in which he was the worst NFL QB of those that qualified for rating. Personally, I hope a team takes a chance and we meet that team in the playoffs. 

You didn't read that I wanted Dalton to be the QB next year, because I never said that....

I am on Burrow's bandwagon.  I am just defending one man's performance in a team sport.  Brady had a very sub-par year by his standards...and it happened as soon as he lost his vertical threat in Brown.  Their line is much better and he has had a very average year.

And what about Mayfield?  Those WRs, TE, and RB should have been setting all kinds of records?  Why didn't it?  Their offensive line.  

(12-30-2019, 12:25 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You've said this twice now, and it's simply not true. When Taylor benched Andy to see what Finley brought to the table, he was very clear that the record and problems were not  Andy's fault, and that he was simply looking to see if Finley could spark something. 

Well, I never read that anywhere. It might have been in a thread somewhere, but not that I read.

The problems were with the game planning, preparation, play-calling and all of that is rather obvious, especially when you look at how much more poorly the team did this season compared with last season. What exactly was Finley suppose to accomplish in this mess?

Clearly the team was capable of running the ball. They did last season and towards the end of this season.

Unless the front office plan was to just suck all season long for the top pick, their plan to win has gone completely south and conductor of that train is Taylor and the job he's done. Taylor needs to return to coaching WRs, then when he shows competence at that, he might be ready to be an OC somewhere.

 

(12-30-2019, 12:41 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: AD is an honest guy. I can see him telling Mike Brown he has no intention of holding a clipboard in 2020, but he will tell them respectfully.

AD holds that cards. MB will not want to pay a backup QB almost $18 million if they are not committed to the team which AD would not be based on hos remarks today.

I can’t see the cards AD holds.  He’s signed for 2020, he’s an average starting QB, never won a playoff game, in fact had some terrible performances in playoffs. 

He’s got no leverage as far as I can tell. 
Mike Brown won’t be intimidated by a hold out. If he wants Dalton as a backup it’s a big payday for Dalton and he’s one injury from starting in 2020. If I’m Mike Brown I keep AD and wait for the trading deadline and see which teams will overpay for a QB. 

(12-30-2019, 03:36 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I can’t see the cards AD holds.  He’s signed for 2020, he’s an average starting QB, never won a playoff game, in fact had some terrible performances in playoffs. 

He’s got no leverage as far as I can tell. 
Mike Brown won’t be intimidated by a hold out. If he wants Dalton as a backup it’s a big payday for Dalton and he’s one injury from starting in 2020. If I’m Mike Brown I keep AD and wait for the trading deadline and see which teams will overpay for a QB. 

So pretty much you can only count on Mike Brown to do right by you if your kid becomes deathly ill, or if you're a knucklehead in need of a 7th or 8th chance.

Again; it's not like they can't completely wash their hands of Dalton's money this year. Why the **** did Katie structure it that way if there's no chance to take advantage of it?

Looks like Eli also refuses to be a backup.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001093420/article/everythings-an-option-for-manning-but-being-backup

Of course he is a lot older than AD, but the point is starters want to start.

(12-30-2019, 11:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

Andy Dalton was sacked the 12th most in the NFL. Let ne save you from the "bur he missed 3 games" defense. Only 5 QB in the NFl attempted more passes than Andy yet was sacked less. 

He had a fine supporting crew. He had a WR catch for over 1000 yards and a RB rush for over 1000 yards. 

Unsure what the defense has to do with Andy's performance, but sure, use it as another excuse if you must.

The team was clicking on all cylinders yesterday and he managed a passer rating in the 70s.

Folks around here love Andy and I get that. Professional NFL personnel people have no loyalty to him. If we're not willing to pay him $17 Mil as a back up and/or compete against a promising youngster what makes folks think other teams will?

Our tendency to "one read, quick throw" while Dalton is in tends to drive down the sack total...as evidenced by what happened in Finley's 3 starts. Finley was sacked once per 7.9 attempts, while Dalton was sacked once per every 14.3 attempts. It's obvious to most that our line hasn't been good, to put it kindly.

The run game averaged 84.7 yards in Dalton's 13 starts, which would rank 30th in the NFL...and that includes the drastic turnaround over his last 4 starts. I'm not sure how anyone could look at this offense and say Dalton was the only thing holding it back, and that seems to be what you're saying.

To your last question, I'm not sure anyone would trade for Andy. Mainly due to the nearly $18 million price tag. He (and other similar QB's) can be had for less than that, I'd guarantee it. Andy, at his age, has reached a point where he will be viewed as a stop-gap or a band-aid. The price for such players is fairly cheap.

So to sum it up, I don't think anyone will trade for Andy, but I'd bet he'll have suitors in free agency and will wind up getting a shot to start somewhere.

(12-30-2019, 12:48 AM)samhain Wrote: Eh, I don't think Andy has it in him to show his ass if the family doesn't let him go.  You might hear some grumbling from his agent, but he's a good soldier.  

I personally think that the team is doing him a disservice if they prevent him from going to a place where he will start.  I'm not quite positive that such a place exists, but it probably does.  If they truly appreciate his service, they shouldn't block him.

My question is whether or not the family would keep him as a starter in 2020 al-la Kitna/Palmer 03.  That redshirt year approach is less common  in the current era, but the Brown family is as old school as they come.  

As a fan, I want them to get something out of him.  I'd take a 3rd if it's offered, maybe even a 4th.  They need all the picks they can get.

Now hear this all you die-hard Bengal fans. Mr Andy Dalton is going to be here this upcoming season unless this organization is offered a big big offer they would not turn down,like a first rounder and a second next season,that would be the only way he leaves,he is under contract and starting or not he will be here in 2020.They will need him to mentor to the next new qb which is probably going to be Joe B.QBs coming out of college need time to adjust to the nfl no matter how good they were in college.And Dalton is very smart and knows how to read Defenses with the best of them,You have to realize Dalton has had like 5 OCs and that is a big adjustment.HE has had to learn like 5 different ways to run an offense.Dude is super smart and his knowledge will help the new guy.Now all bets are off if they are offered a big big deal for him.I believe he will be back for 2020.

(12-30-2019, 12:21 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry, bud, but watching the Bengals on offense, you saw virtually NO downfield shots because of a lack of outside speed and not enough time to get downfield.  Dalton isn't sacked a lot because of his quick release and the offense being designed to get the ball out quickly.  While that is ok on the surface, it tremendously limits what an offense can do and makes it easier for a defense to attack when they don't have to worry about getting beat over the top.  

He does not have a "fine" supporting crew.  He has the worst offensive line in football.  

How can you not comprehend how a bad defense hurts a QB?  Brady played like CRAP for most of the game against Cincy, but his defense KEPT GETTING HIM THE BALL.  Piggy made a living of this.  

As far as clicking on all cylinders goes, they were doing that in 2015 when his rating was over 100.  That was a team with weapons and an offensive line.  

Standard Andy Dalton defense post:


Claim we have the worst OL in the league ✔️

Claim we have no weapons on offense ✔️

Blame the defense ✔️

Bring up 2015 ✔️


Never change Bengals Board. Never change lol

(12-30-2019, 12:53 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: You didn't read that I wanted Dalton to be the QB next year, because I never said that....

I am on Burrow's bandwagon.  I am just defending one man's performance in a team sport.  Brady had a very sub-par year by his standards...and it happened as soon as he lost his vertical threat in Brown.  Their line is much better and he has had a very average year.

And what about Mayfield?  Those WRs, TE, and RB should have been setting all kinds of records?  Why didn't it?  Their offensive line.  

Let’s not blame it all on Cleveland’s OL. Nick Chubb rushed for over 1400 yds behind that line. Mayfield threw almost as many INTS as he did TD’s. There were other factors. They also fired their HC who called the plays.

(12-30-2019, 12:48 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: MB had all of the leverage with CP, he has none with AD. Ad could show up week 1 next year and honor his contract if MB tries to play hard ball.

He has leverage with AD too. AD is under contract. He could show up next year week 1 and be a highly paid back-up. 2021 is when his future is in his hands...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

(12-30-2019, 07:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Standard Andy Dalton defense post:


Claim we have the worst OL in the league ✔️

Claim we have no weapons on offense ✔️

Blame the defense ✔️

Bring up 2015 ✔️


Never change Bengals Board. Never change lol

Ok, I guess the issue that those are all FACTS are not able to be presented because it is everyone's favorite punching bag?  Your response is "wah, I don't have an answer and never have so I am going to ignore the facts".  Great response.  

(12-30-2019, 07:34 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Let’s not blame it all on Cleveland’s OL. Nick Chubb rushed for over 1400 yds behind that line. Mayfield threw almost as many INTS as he did TD’s. There were other factors. They also fired their HC who called the plays.

Just like your blame of Dalton, they are blaming the wrong guys.....Mayfield was on the run all day, and their HC made a REALLY dumb decision to wear a T-Shirt that said "Pittsburg started it" after the helmet-swinging incident.  Their offensive line was responsible for their failures on offense this year.  

(12-30-2019, 11:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc

Andy Dalton was sacked the 12th most in the NFL. Let ne save you from the "bur he missed 3 games" defense. Only 5 QB in the NFl attempted more passes than Andy yet was sacked less. 

He had a fine supporting crew. He had a WR catch for over 1000 yards and a RB rush for over 1000 yards. 

Unsure what the defense has to do with Andy's performance, but sure, use it as another excuse if you must.

The team was clicking on all cylinders yesterday and he managed a passer rating in the 70s.

Folks around here love Andy and I get that. Professional NFL personnel people have no loyalty to him. If we're not willing to pay him $17 Mil as a back up and/or compete against a promising youngster what makes folks think other teams will?

Did you notice who was ranked #1 on this list?  Ryan "I was so worthless in Miami that I was traded for a seventh round pick in 2019 and a 4th round pick in 2020 by the Titans who got me and a 6th round pick last year" Tannehill.  So, by point value, Tannehill was traded for what amounted to be something in the neighborhood of a 5th round draft pick.  Tannehill was cursed for his turnovers.  He was not able to escape pressure.  He couldn't read defenses.....any of this sound familiar?  


He goes to Tennessee.....Not the greatest talent pool in the NFL but certainly better players and coaches than Miami.  

The bottom line:  Supporting cast matters...more than you seem to realize.  Dalton did it in the NFL, in one of the toughest divisions in the league.  He wasn't a flash in the pan.  He did it for 5 consecutive years.  He took over a team expected to go 0-16 and took them to the playoffs in his rookie season.  His reward?  Letting Whit, Zeitler, Sanu, Marvin Jones, and others go, and (especially in the case of the offensive line) was replaced with lesser talent. 

I am not interested in paying him to be a backup.  I want it to be 100% Burrow.  No looking over his shoulder...we ride or die with the kid moving forward.  

That argument about not being sacked as often is weak.  His quick release and scheme is what saves that.  

Just stop making up crap about him having a "fine" supporting cast.  Maybe before Williams, Glenn, Green, and Ross went down with injuries but we will never know that for this year.  He had a horrible line, receivers that couldn't generate any separation, and a defense that for the most part couldn't stop anyone until the last quarter of the season.  

(12-31-2019, 09:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ok, I guess the issue that those are all FACTS are not able to be presented because it is everyone's favorite punching bag?  Your response is "wah, I don't have an answer and never have so I am going to ignore the facts".  Great response.  

They’re not facts though.

We DO have offensive weapons. Boyd had over 1k yds. Mixon had over a 1k yds. Not every QB has a WR and RB as good as those two. Especially the latter.

And our OL being the worst in the NFL is not a fact. Statistically they were not. There were teams that gave up more sacks, ran for less yds, etc.

The only fact that was actually true is that Dalton was good 4 years ago for 12 games. But that was obviously an outlier, and not something he’s likely to ever repeat again.

(12-31-2019, 09:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Just like your blame of Dalton, they are blaming the wrong guys.....Mayfield was on the run all day, and their HC made a REALLY dumb decision to wear a T-Shirt that said "Pittsburg started it" after the helmet-swinging incident.  Their offensive line was responsible for their failures on offense this year.  

You can blame their OL all you want, and yes they were bad, but Mayfield was straight trash this season. And that’s a FACT.

(12-30-2019, 12:20 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It appears the Dalton era will come to an end as we prepare for the Joe Burrow arrival.

I enjoyed AD's last meeting with the media. I believe he gave away his hand today, he wants to start for a team in 2020.

Lots of speculation since AD is under contract for 1 more year.

Will Bengals trade him or keep him to mentor Burrow in 2020?

I got a sense AD will not be a mentor in 2020 which will force MB to trade him. I think that is best plan anyway, but I think it will be Dalton forcing the issue if that is not the plan, trade me or I skip all off season activities if not the starter.

Thoughts?

last time we drafted a QB first overall he did not start right away.

(12-31-2019, 09:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:   

 Dalton did it in the NFL, in one of the toughest divisions in the league.  He wasn't a flash in the pan.  He did it for 5 consecutive years.  

If you meant he went 3-13 against the Steelers and hadn't beat them for 4.5 years yeah he did it for almost a decade. You mean he played good enough to get to the playoffs and STB for five years in a row? Yeah he did that. You mean the QB that has led us to four consecutive losing seasons? Yeah he did that. It kills me that fans are so enamored with a mediocre QB. You will see his value this offseason.