(12-31-2019, 04:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We'd already know if he is by now. Through 3 years...

Adrian Peterson:  915 carries/4,484 yards (4.9 YPC)/40 TD  ... 3x Pro Bowl, 1x 2nd Team All-Pro, 2x 1st Team All-Pro
Frank Gore: 699 carries/3,405 yards (4.9 YPC)/16 TD  ... 1x Pro Bowl, 1x 2nd Team All-Pro
Joe Mixon: 693 carries/2,931 yards (4.2 YPC)/17 TD  ... Nothing

Frank Gore will end up in the HoF most likely, but he isn't the same category as Adrian Peterson. Gore is merely a guy who is good for a long time, but not a guy who is great. He is a compiler HoFer.

Also a concerning/weird stat about Mixon: He has 0 rushing TDs of 20+ yards in his career. He just simply doesn't have the ability to finish a run for a TD. I don't know if it's a vision thing, or if he doesn't have that final gear, or what. 

- - - - - - -

He's played 16 games in 1 out of 3 seasons and had 0 seasons of 300+ carries, or even 280+ carries. I don't know if I would categorize that as "super durable". He's not fragile, but not super durable.

Joe just doesn't have that top gear to be a home run hitter, unfortunately.  When you watch a guy like Derrick Henry, not only does he have that punishing physical running style, but when he breaks into the clear he's gone.  Joe just doesn't have that.

(12-31-2019, 05:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How can you feel like he can't "take it to the house" when he was second in the league in runs over 40 yards last year?

Are you saying there was only one RB in the league who could "take it to the house" in 2018?

And how many of those 40+ yard runs did he score on?  0.

He has literally never taken it to the house.  693 rushes, 0 times has he taken it to the house. 

In fact, forget 20+ yards, he only has 2 rushing TDs of even 10+ yards.

He. Can't. Finish. Runs.

(12-31-2019, 05:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why did Bernard average almost a full yard less than Mixon (3.2 to 4.1) if any RB in the league would have done what Mixon did behind our line?

Four of the first seven games this year he averaged 1.7 yards per yards per carry.  Everyone was calling for his head on a platter. He came on strong at the end of the year so everyone is now on the bandwagon. Bernard had a total of 53 rushes to Mixon's 278. But lets act like he's the second coming of Walter Payton . He is a good back but not worth 10 mil/year. Mark Ingram got five mil per year and is the same type back as Mixon. How did the Saints do after letting him walk.

(12-31-2019, 05:55 PM)grampahol Wrote: So your position is that unless your RB is superman on steroids who can run through steam rollers with no help he's just not worth the asking price.. Well that makes perfect sense in a fantasy brain.. 

Mark Ingram got paid 3yr/$15m by the Ravens. He went for 1,018 yards at 5.0 YPC.
Gus Edwards was undrafted by the Ravens. He went for 711 yards at 5.3 YPC.

The Ravens had a good scheme and blockers. They didn't need to pay Ingram any money when Gus Edwards was an undrafted player in 2018 and also managed to have a successful season at 5.3 YPC.

In fact, Gus Edwards last year ran for 718 yards at 5.2 YPC as a rookie UDFA.
In 2017, 5th rounder Alex Collins ran for 973 yards at 4.6 YPC after being a Practice Squad signing.
In 2016, Terrence West on his 3rd team in 3 years produced 774 yards at 4.0 YPC after also being a Practice Squad signing.
In '14 and '15, journeyman Justin Forsett ran for 1,907 yards at 4.9 YPC, and he was originally a 7th round pick.

The Ravens have just thrown together random RBs and had a successful running game with 5 different primary running backs the last 6 years.

(12-31-2019, 06:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Mark Ingram got paid 3yr/$15m by the Ravens. He went for 1,018 yards at 5.0 YPC.

And the $6 million he got last year made him the 6th highest paid back in the league.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/running-back/

(12-31-2019, 06:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Ravens have just thrown together random RBs and had a successful running game with 5 different primary running backs the last 6 years.

In '15 and '16 the Ravens ranked 26th and 28th in rushing.  Claiming they had a successful running game is 100% BS.

(12-31-2019, 05:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is a lot of gibberish to say "The fact that Bernard was so much worse behind the same line proves that talent makes a big difference in run game production."
 

It's not gibberish and you know it. It was a very fact based response. If you want to counter; fine, but don't diminish his fact based reply with "a lot of gibberish" (unintelligible or meaningless language) simply because it counters your reply, 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing

Looking at Next Gen Stats, Mixon faced less defenders in the box this year compared to last year. In comparison, Henry faced nearly 5 times more players stacked in the box and still led the NFL in total yards, and average per.

https://fantasyfootballers.org/rb-running-back-nfl-stats/

Mixon appears to be in top 12 in the NFL under most reasonable stats.

I think Mixon is a top 10 RB and do not know what that means in terms of pay but he is not a top 5 back. I think in terms of salary, maybe 6-8 mil per. I think Mixon wants something like 10 mil per which I do not think Bengals would pay and I do not think he has demonstrated such a salary.

Still, if the Bengals pay him a like a top 10 back, I think it would be good to do so over this next season to offer such an extension. I love his attitude and he stated that he wants to be a Bengal for life, then he can prove it.

(12-31-2019, 06:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's not gibberish and you know it. It was a very fact based response. If you want to counter; fine, but don't diminish his fact based reply with "a lot of gibberish" (unintelligible or meaningless language) simply because it counters your reply, 

Actually I did not see a single fact that explained why Gio averaged a full yard less than Mixon behind the same line.

Please point it out to me.

(12-31-2019, 06:14 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:  Mark Ingram got five mil per year and is the same type back as Mixon. How did the Saints do after letting him walk.

Their rush offense went from first in the league in rushing tds to 20th, and they went from 7th to 16th in yards.

(12-31-2019, 03:43 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Not everyone is Peterson or Gore, but what if Mixon IS like them?

We'd have a 1,000 yard rusher at 4.0+ YPC for 7 more years.

He's super durable and doesn't have fumbling issues (the one on Sunday was the first in 2 years and he has 4 in 3), not to mention he's great at catching ball out of the backfield too.

I'd do a 5 year contract, though I'm not good with money, so not sure of amount.

Woah woah woah, dude!!!!

You lost a bet with me. YOUR BET. A battle to the death where the loser had to stay off the boards FOREVER. Looking at your post history, you came back quite a while ago.

What gives?

(12-31-2019, 06:46 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Woah woah woah, dude!!!!

You lost a bet with me. YOUR BET. A battle to the death where the loser had to stay off the boards FOREVER. Looking at your post history, you cam back quite a while ago.

What gives?

Don't try to run off Truck man, geez, I hate these bets. What is the point?

(12-31-2019, 06:46 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Woah woah woah, dude!!!!

You lost a bet with me. YOUR BET. A battle to the death where the loser had to stay off the boards FOREVER. Looking at your post history, you cam back quite a while ago.

What gives?

Any member is free to post whenever they want...silly bets or not. 

I think most of us think that Mixon is a talented running back, we just don't want to make a long term financial commitment to him because they rarely work out for running backs. It's easier to find production at that position than it is at others. The list of leading rushers this year ranges from first rounders to undrafted players.

My take would be: Let Mixon play out another year before we start talking extension. If it means losing him, so be it.

Kamara, McCaffrey, Mixon, Cook, Aaron Jones, Fournette, and James Conner will all be free agents that year. They won't all get paid, so there's bound to be a limited market. Yes, Mixon could explode next year, but I still would rather see what the market dictates as opposed to paying him so much up front.

(12-31-2019, 06:53 PM)PikesPeakUC Wrote: I think most of us think that Mixon is a talented running back, we just don't want to make a long term financial commitment to him because they rarely work out for running backs. It's easier to find production at that position than it is at others. The list of leading rushers this year ranges from first rounders to undrafted players.

My take would be: Let Mixon play out another year before we start talking extension.

Kamara, McCaffrey, Mixon, Cook, Aaron Jones, Fournette, and James Conner will all be free agents that year. They won't all get paid, so there's bound to be a limited market. Yes, Mixon could explode next year, but I still would rather see what the market dictates as opposed to paying him so much up front.

if the run game is going to be a focus... there are worst things than paying a running back what hes worth.

(12-31-2019, 06:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And the $6 million he got last year made him the 6th highest paid back in the league.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cash/running-back/




In '15 and '16 the Ravens ranked 26th and 28th in rushing.  Claiming they had a successful running game is 100% BS.

And yet he didn't greatly outperform Gus Edwards, who was an UDFA making under $600k.

- - - - - -

Meanwhile you're arguing to pay good money to the RB who has been the primary rusher while the Bengals have had the 25th rushing offense in 2019, 21st in 2018, and 31st in 2017.

(12-31-2019, 06:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's not gibberish and you know it. It was a very fact based response. If you want to counter; fine, but don't diminish his fact based reply with "a lot of gibberish" (unintelligible or meaningless language) simply because it counters your reply, 

(12-31-2019, 06:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually I did not see a single fact that explained why Gio averaged a full yard less than Mixon behind the same line.

Please point it out to me.

Apparently, I've over-estimated you. Dude provided a reasonable response. He posted number to include percentage of carries and how Gio's diminished after a reset that saw both Gio's and Mixon's YPC increase. He did it with civility and no dismissal of your point such as "that's a lot of gibberish".

I've seen a lot of gibberish in this forum and that wasn't it. Nothing in his reply was unintelligible or meaningless. 

As to the OP: They should pay Mixon

(12-31-2019, 04:04 PM)Okeana Wrote: I wouldn't mind them locking him into an extension now while he's still on his rookie contract and maybe get a discount.  5 years maybe 10mil a year could be a steal for us in the long run while offering him security.  Keep in mind that on a rookie scale you can have Joe Burrow and Mixon on contract cheaper than you had Andy Dalton so this is a great time to front-load some contracts.

Although I like your thinking, there is one thing that concerns me in this era of NFL RB's. 5yrs at 10 mil a year is not a lot and I could see him going stagnate on a long term. If you keep it to 2yrs, he doesnt lay down a season because he can't afford to. I think most players should be signed in this fashion because we see it way too often after players get a long term payday. They just don't seem to play as hard until it's time to re-up.

(12-31-2019, 06:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Any member is free to post whenever they want...silly bets or not.

Weak and pathetic for him to accept that.

Being 100% serious: DELETE MY ACCOUNT. I don't socialize with cowards or clowns who are okay with not honoring their own bets or who shelter those who decide their word is worthless.

Best of luck to you both in finding your spines.

Be sure to delete this so no one sees you get pissed on, coward.

I guess the name calling thread just wasn't taken to heart by everyone.. Oh well.. Those who find themselves on the outside looking in will be pleased and find plenty of ways to justify a few moments of pretending to be superior. 

The Bengals have a decent amount of leverage so I'd love to see him signed now, so long as that leverage is properly used and accounted for, and his market is set accordingly.

Here's how I view his worth...

He's under contract for next year @ 1.2 mil. The franchise tag currently sits at 11.2 mil. So we can control his rights for the next two seasons at an average of 6 mil and some change. This is with no upfront money, and limited guarantees. If he rips up him knee next year and he's done forever he's seeing next to nothing. The leverage is there, more now than the following offseason.

He's not an elite back (yet?). Not even close. The rushing numbers are still a ways off from the guys who saw the mega-deals. And hurting him more is the lack of production in the passing game. The top tier guys are catching 60-70-80+ balls a year. No way I'm paying him Elliot/Bell/Gurley/Johnson money. Not only are those deals stupid and risky imo, his production doesn't warrant it.

But what happens after those 4 guys is the dollar amount drop off the table. The 5th highest paid back this year was Freemen at 8.25. And I think he falls close to that.

Id want a 5 year deal, which is essentially extending him 3 years beyond what you control now. 5 years at 40-48 mil, something like that. No way am I paying over 10 per though. They really should get this done now though. That or just let him walk and replace him with some other cheaper capable back.

No tag, no mega-deal!