(01-02-2020, 03:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Do you really think Miami makes that trade? I don't.

I have no idea.  It's the best trading down scenario I can find.  Maybe Miami just got an itch for Burrow?  Quality over quantity.
More importantly do I think the Bengals make that trade?  No I don't.

The NFL trade value chart shows the trade isn't lopsided in favor of the Bengals.  Quite reasonable if they throw out the future year pick.

(01-02-2020, 03:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Do you really think Miami makes that trade? I don't.

You're not going to see a Ditka type offer, or even Miami's 3 #1s, like you might have in the past. Not for Burrow. 

For a guy like Luck, that played well multiple years, you might get someone desperate to offer that, but not for a guy that's only done it 1 year and i'm a big Burrow fan. 

(01-02-2020, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We missed out on our guy we really wanted in Frank Ragnow, and ended up with Billy Price. Who is honestly in the running with Ross and Ogbuehi and our biggest bust in recent memory. There is no guarantee trading back will work out.

It’s inconceivable to me that I’m still seeing people talking about trading the #1OA at this point. I’d maybe understand if we were set with a young franchise QB already, and there was no unanimous #1 pick, but it couldn’t have worked out any better for us to finally bottom out in a year with a stud QB prospect coming out.

Please stop overthinking it so much. There’s no reason to get cute. Just make obvious choice and draft Joe Burrow. Period.

/end rant

So was this the obvious choice at beginning or midway into this season? 
The answer is no, why with his time in Ohio St and last year at LSU was Burrow not on the radar .. you would be stupid not to listen to offers .. Burrow does not come in with the same cant miss feel of the Mannings or even Luck or Newton.. he has been more hyped because of the team he is playing for.

(01-02-2020, 11:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: In fairness, the last three times we've traded down in the 1st, it has screwed us.

In addition to the Price/Glenn draft, you have the DeCastro for Zeitler/Thompson trade.  Zeitler was a good player and Thompson was a solid rotational player/spot starter, but DeCastro has arguably had a HoF type career to this point.  

You also had us trading with the Rams so they could get Steven Jackson while we wound up with Chris Perry.

Well, staying put at #1 overall  (or close to it) hasn't yielded squat either.  Wilkinson, Kijana, Akili .... ring any bells?  We just haven't drafted well in recent years nor before 2001.  Marvin was good at one thing -- evaluating talent.  Unfortunately, he was just a mediocre HC.

(01-02-2020, 09:32 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:  I thought that insane performance in the college playoffs would put a rest to the debate, but people will always surprise you I suppose...

(01-02-2020, 11:13 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Making your choice based off one game would be incredibly stupid. 

For once, I agree with you.

(01-02-2020, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We missed out on our guy we really wanted in Frank Ragnow, and ended up with Billy Price. Who is honestly in the running with Ross and Ogbuehi and our biggest bust in recent memory. There is no guarantee trading back will work out.

It’s inconceivable to me that I’m still seeing people talking about trading the #1OA at this point. I’d maybe understand if we were set with a young franchise QB already, and there was no unanimous #1 pick, but it couldn’t have worked out any better for us to finally bottom out in a year with a stud QB prospect coming out.

Please stop overthinking it so much. There’s no reason to get cute. Just make obvious choice and draft Joe Burrow. Period.

/end rant

I don't really get it either unless somehow the team thinks Andy Dalton is the QB of the future again.

What likely makes people consider the trade is due largely to the Bengals lame free agency policies, which hold the team back.

 

(01-02-2020, 02:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We missed out on our guy we really wanted in Frank Ragnow, and ended up with Billy Price. Who is honestly in the running with Ross and Ogbuehi and our biggest bust in recent memory. There is no guarantee trading back will work out.

It’s inconceivable to me that I’m still seeing people talking about trading the #1OA at this point. I’d maybe understand if we were set with a young franchise QB already, and there was no unanimous #1 pick, but it couldn’t have worked out any better for us to finally bottom out in a year with a stud QB prospect coming out.

Please stop overthinking it so much. There’s no reason to get cute. Just make obvious choice and draft Joe Burrow. Period.

/end rant

I wanted Ragnow but to be fair most people on here wanted Price over Ragnow. It was a close debate.

Nobody envisioned Price sucking so bad. 

(01-02-2020, 07:08 PM)EatonFan Wrote: Well, staying put at #1 overall  (or close to it) hasn't yielded squat either.  Wilkinson, Kijana, Akili .... ring any bells?  We just haven't drafted well in recent years nor before 2001.  Marvin was good at one thing -- evaluating talent.  Unfortunately, he was just a mediocre HC.

Wilkinson was actually a pretty good player and yielded a 1st and 3rd in trade.  One of those picks was Brian Simmons, so I think we did ok.

Kijana never really recovered from blowing out his knee in preseason.  He's a huge what if.

Akili sucked, but was also the 3rd QB off the board in that draft.  With QB being such a premium position, if you have a shot to take your guy, you take your guy.  You don't trade down and see who falls to you.  If we trade down this year, then we'll basically just be hoping we luck out and someone falls to us in the next few years or giving up a boatload to move up.

However, there's not some mystic correlation between taking a QB #1 and not winning a SB or always getting screwed by trading down.  You weigh your options based on their own merits.  

(01-02-2020, 04:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And no team would ever make a mistake if they were able to see into the future.  It is easy to claim you know exactly what to do when you already know how everything works out.

If we draft Borrow and he flops you will be here claiming the Bengals were stupid for not trading away the #1 pick.

No I won’t. There were plenty of red flags when it came to Glenn as far as injury concerns.

Burrow is the unanimous best pick for us to make.

(01-02-2020, 06:38 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So was this the obvious choice at beginning or midway into this season? 
The answer is no, why with his time in Ohio St and last year at LSU was Burrow not on the radar .. you would be stupid not to listen to offers .. Burrow does not come in with the same cant miss feel of the Mannings or even Luck or Newton.. he has been more hyped because of the team he is playing for.

Umm...no. If anything’s the other way around.

(01-02-2020, 07:08 PM)EatonFan Wrote: Well, staying put at #1 overall  (or close to it) hasn't yielded squat either.  Wilkinson, Kijana, Akili .... ring any bells?  We just haven't drafted well in recent years nor before 2001.  Marvin was good at one thing -- evaluating talent.  Unfortunately, he was just a mediocre HC.

Does Carson Palmer ring any bells? You know...the guy that helped bring us back from being a total laughing stock and helped turn us into a contender?

(01-02-2020, 08:26 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: For once, I agree with you.

Good thing most sensible people already were set on Burrow before the playoffs. I was referring to the OH St homers that were still clinging to their hopes of taking Chase Young. And people like you who basically think QB is one of the least important aspects of building a good team lol

(01-03-2020, 01:43 AM)Whatever Wrote: Wilkinson was actually a pretty good player and yielded a 1st and 3rd in trade.  One of those picks was Brian Simmons, so I think we did ok.

Kijana never really recovered from blowing out his knee in preseason.  He's a huge what if.

Akili sucked, but was also the 3rd QB off the board in that draft.  With QB being such a premium position, if you have a shot to take your guy, you take your guy.  You don't trade down and see who falls to you.  If we trade down this year, then we'll basically just be hoping we luck out and someone falls to us in the next few years or giving up a boatload to move up.

However, there's not some mystic correlation between taking a QB #1 and not winning a SB or always getting screwed by trading down.  You weigh your options based on their own merits.  

Fair and sensible post. Rep to you, sir.

(01-03-2020, 02:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Does Carson Palmer ring any bells? You know...the guy that helped bring us back from being a total laughing stock and helped turn us into a contender?

Actually Palmer's first year Kitna led us back to contender first by going 8-8 while Palmer learned and held a damn clipboard.

And the team was improved by the time Palmer took his first snaps, had a good O-line and some weapons to play with.

Burrow, has no Kitna, since Dalton will be gone. The O-line is just a train wreck (the O-line he has in LSU won the award for nation's best O-line, going from that to 32 of 32 will be a culture shock.)

I think Green will leave, that means you have Mixon (Elite), Boyd (Near elite) and ......Tate??? Solid but a possession guy, Ross who sucks, and can't stay healthy? 

I just don't get the hype. The guy is a one year wonder who had Joe Brady coach him up, who will do that here??? Who protects him, who does he throw too?

Reality is, the Bengals will not be active in Free agency so the only upgrades will be in the draft. The 1st 3 picks are guys you can count on to come in year one maybe and contribute. 

You are wasting one on Burrow, so be it.

That leaves round 2 and round 3 to fix LB, O-line, replace A.J. Green, not sure how you plan to do all that with 2 picks. 

Not too mention, the draft class next year has several QBs coming out that I'd take over Burrow.

Build the team, let some vet QB take the lumps this year, and get your franchise QB in the following draft.

(01-03-2020, 03:32 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Actually Palmer's first year Kitna led us back to contender first by going 8-8 while Palmer learned and held a damn clipboard.

And the team was improved by the time Palmer took his first snaps, had a good O-line and some weapons to play with.

Burrow, has no Kitna, since Dalton will be gone. The O-line is just a train wreck (the O-line he has in LSU won the award for nation's best O-line, going from that to 32 of 32 will be a culture shock.)

I think Green will leave, that means you have Mixon (Elite), Boyd (Near elite) and ......Tate??? Solid but a possession guy, Ross who sucks, and can't stay healthy? 

I just don't get the hype. The guy is a one year wonder who had Joe Brady coach him up, who will do that here??? Who protects him, who does he throw too?

Reality is, the Bengals will not be active in Free agency so the only upgrades will be in the draft. The 1st 3 picks are guys you can count on to come in year one maybe and contribute. 

You are wasting one on Burrow, so be it.

That leaves round 2 and round 3 to fix LB, O-line, replace A.J. Green, not sure how you plan to do all that with 2 picks. 

Not too mention, the draft class next year has several QBs coming out that I'd take over Burrow.

Build the team, let some vet QB take the lumps this year, and get your franchise QB in the following draft.

You completely lost me right there. Right now there’s only one QB that you can make a case for being a better prospect, and that’s Lawrence.

And we can’t risk not being in position to get him. The time is now.

Also, 8-8 is not a contender. It was Palmer, Chad, and TJ, that made us into one.

(01-03-2020, 03:40 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You completely lost me right there. Right now there’s only one QB that that you can make a case for being a better prospect, and that’s Lawrence.

And we can’t risk not being in position to get him. The time is now.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-draft-who-could-trade-up-for-joe-burrow-at-no-1-and-what-such-a-move-would-cost/



Look at this article and some of the draft capital we could gain by trading out of the top spot.

Next year has Lawrence, Justin Fields, Tua (guessing he goes back to show he is healthy), and Jake Frohm. Lots of talent there especially if you have built a roster this year by getting more guys. 

Trust me, I am all in on Trevor Lawrence, and if you move back from 1 this year and get an extra 1 next year, you have the draft capital to move up and get him next year after building up the roster around him.

(01-03-2020, 03:47 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-nfl-draft-who-could-trade-up-for-joe-burrow-at-no-1-and-what-such-a-move-would-cost/



Look at this article and some of the draft capital we could gain by trading out of the top spot.

Next year has Lawrence, Justin Fields, Tua (guessing he goes back to show he is healthy), and Jake Frohm. Lots of talent there especially if you have built a roster this year by getting more guys. 

Trust me, I am all in on Trevor Lawrence, and if you move back from 1 this year and get an extra 1 next year, you have the draft capital to move up and get him next year after building up the roster around him.

No thanks on Tua. Too risky. Fromm is Dalton 2.0, again no thanks. I’d rather have Burrow over Fields. Lawrence too much would have to fall into place to get him. We either need another #1OA pick (very unlikely) or get lucky enough that whoever has the 1st pick doesn’t need a QB, and would be willing to trade with us.

Nope. The sensible thing to do is grab our guy right now while we can.

(01-03-2020, 03:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No thanks on Tua. Too risky. Fromm is Dalton 2.0, again no thanks. I’d rather have Burrow over Fields. Lawrence too much would have to fall into place to get him. We either need another #1OA pick (very unlikely) or get lucky enough that whoever has the 1st pick doesn’t need a QB, and would be willing to trade with us.

Nope. The sensible thing to do is grab our guy right now while we can.

So just for fun, I want to ask this question.

Everyone is so sold on this guy who was mediocre at best as a Junior, got some new coaches in there and a new system and now he is setting the world on fire.

What happens when Cincy takes him #1 overall, doesn't do anything in Free Agency (let's face it, they won't), keeps all the same coaches (cause...they will) and ends up with the worst record again in the following year? 

Are you trading the #1 overall pick with Lawrence sitting there a year after drafting Burrow? 

This team is not close, this season should show that. There is a real good chance we pick #1 again in the 2021 draft. 

(01-03-2020, 04:00 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: So just for fun, I want to ask this question.

Everyone is so sold on this guy who was mediocre at best as a Junior, got some new coaches in there and a new system and now he is setting the world on fire.

What happens when Cincy takes him #1 overall, doesn't do anything in Free Agency (let's face it, they won't), keeps all the same coaches (cause...they will) and ends up with the worst record again in the following year? 

Are you trading the #1 overall pick with Lawrence sitting there a year after drafting Burrow? 

This team is not close, this season should show that. There is a real good chance we pick #1 again in the 2021 draft. 

We might not be “close” if you’re referring to being a contender and making the playoffs, but I don’t think we’re that far away either. We just won 6 games in 2018.

We were in a lot of close games this season. You add a QB like Burrow, and a LT like Jonah Willams (remember, we were starting our 4th and 5th options at LT this season). The running game has already shown signs of improving, as has our pass rush.

We’ll have money to spend from cutting Dalton, or at the very least an extra pick for him, maybe similar situation with AJ. Our schedule won’t be as hard next season. I can go on and on why I think think we’ll be at least slightly better.

I just don’t see us getting the 1st pick again. Cleveland is about the only franchise bad enough to have back-to-back 1st picks in the modern era.

I’m not passing on a stud QB prospect who’s making history, and tearing literally everyone apart, for something that’s completely out of our control. Can’t base our 2020 1st round draft pick on hypothetical 2021 scenarios.

(01-03-2020, 04:20 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We might not be “close” if you’re referring to being a contender and making the playoffs, but I don’t think we’re that far away either. We just won 6 games in 2018.

We were in a lot of close games this season. You add a QB like Burrow, and a LT like Jonah Willams (remember, we were starting our 4th and 5th options at LT this season). The running game has already shown signs of improving, as has our pass rush.

We’ll have money to spend from cutting Dalton, or at the very least an extra pick for him, maybe similar situation with AJ. Our schedule won’t be as hard next season. I can go on and on why I think think we’ll be at least slightly better.

I just don’t see us getting the 1st pick again. Cleveland is about the only franchise bad enough to have back-to-back 1st picks in the modern era.

I’m not passing on a stud QB prospect who’s making history, and tearing literally everyone apart, for something that’s completely out of our control. Can’t base our 2020 1st round draft pick on hypothetical 2021 scenarios.

Are you new to this franchise? Having money to spend means nothing when you sign B.W. Webb and Bobby Hart. Mike Brown isn't going to magically wake up and decide to do things different after all these years.

Cool, we get Jonah back, still have Bobby Hart at RT, we have a C, but then what? Price at guard, was horrible, Jordan was hit or miss, Jonah fixes one spot, still have 3 holes and 2 picks.

I do see us getting back to back #1 picks. Especially if A.J. and Andy are both gone. Burrow might be good, but I asked earlier, who is he throwing to after Boyd?

And still, I want to know, if you draft Burrow and end up 2-14 again next year do you pass on Lawrence who is even better because you took Burrow? You won't get the trade capital for a player as you will for a pick (see Josh Rosen).