(01-04-2020, 03:03 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hmm...he graded out at 43.1 That’s horrendous. I guess I didn’t notice the improvement, but if you guys say there was some, that’s at least somewhat encouraging.

Yes, he was putrid the first half of the year. A lot of red. The last 5 games, where he played a minimum of 65 snaps per game he only had 1 red mark, run blocking against the Dolphins. Other than that, his passpro was very good and his run blocking improved. It was enough of an improvement, to me because i thought he was a waste the first half of the year, to give some promise for next year. 

(01-04-2020, 03:03 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hmm...he graded out at 43.1 That’s horrendous. I guess I didn’t notice the improvement, but if you guys say there was some, that’s at least somewhat encouraging.

Here's a litlle snapshot of his year. 

(01-04-2020, 03:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Here's a litlle snapshot of his year. 

That Jets game is impressive. I know it's a 58.2 grade but Jordan went up against Quinnen Williams for alot of the game. 

People need to know a 59 run blocking grade from PFF is above average lol. They are harsh when it comes to runblocking.

(01-04-2020, 02:52 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Jordan is terrible. Idk what he’s done to make a case for “coming along.”
.

Eh, he improved. He's not a starter, no, but guy is coming along.

To the OP, yes, especially if they get a 2nd or 3rd for Dalton. Even if Green comes back, there is no guarantee he will make it through the entire season. I hope they get Jefferson and another big body WR later.

I don't think the Bengals can fix all the holes in one season. If they stick with Burrow, they should emphasize the personnel on offense this year and maybe defense next.

I think the Bengals need to fix the IOL position this draft so they can run the ball more consistently. I know the team improved at rushing but they need to do it all year. Jordan is a backup IMO but Price will be lucky to make the roster next year. I like Johnson but they need another OT to push Hart out of the starting role.

I don't know what to expect from J. Williams.

(01-03-2020, 06:10 PM)Whatever Wrote: Most of the decent guys have injury issues and aren't going to be able to carry the load for a lengthy period of time.  They're cheap for a reason.

It's a hard sell.  We kept 6 DT's, which is a large number for that group, this year.  Geno took 76% of the defensive snaps. Mixon took 59% of the Offensive snaps.  A RB is going to play more in ideal circumstances, let alone a major injury/holdout situation.   We are much better stocked at DT than RB.

At the end of the day, I'm not completely against taking a DT if they are the BPA and I'm not saying to reach for a RB, either, but they should definitely draft one early if there is value.

When it comes to rushing the passer, the Bengals are not stacked at DT.
Billings, Tupou, Wren, and Glasgow are NTs.
Aside from Atkins, Billings was the only DT to record a sack this year, and he only had 1.0.
Andrew Brown might develop into a 3T, but he's actually dropped weight since drafted (296 -> 290), leading me to believe he's trying to focus more on DE. He's also labeled a DE according to the team.

(01-06-2020, 10:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: When it comes to rushing the passer, the Bengals are not stacked at DT.
Billings, Tupou, Wren, and Glasgow are NTs.
Aside from Atkins, Billings was the only DT to record a sack this year, and he only had 1.0.
Andrew Brown might develop into a 3T, but he's actually dropped weight since drafted (296 -> 290), leading me to believe he's trying to focus more on DE. He's also labeled a DE according to the team.

Brown is a tweener, but if Geno went down, he would be seeing the bulk of his snaps at DT.  Glasgow isn't a true NT at 300 pounds and rotates in at both DT spots.

There were only 3 rookie DT's that had more than 2 sacks this year, Ed Oliver, Quinnen Williams, and Dexter Lawrence.  They were all gone by pick 17 and Williams and Lawrence had 2.5 a piece.  It's a longshot that you're going to find a DT in 3 or 4 that's going to make a significant impact as a pass rusher as a rookie.

(01-02-2020, 12:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It shouldn't be news to anyone at this point, but this is considered one of the deepest WR draft classes in probably a decade.
AJ Green is also a FA, hasn't played a game in over a year, and probably doesn't have more than a couple years left given durability and age.
John Ross hasn't been able to stay healthy and is entering a contract year.

Given the status of AJ Green and John Ross for 2020 and beyond, do you think the Bengals decide to double-dip at WR this year in the draft?
Or should they since they aren't expected to have any comp picks this year?

I think there is a really good possibility they go WR in Rd 2 or 3, and there are numerous possibilities that they could trade back in Rd 2 and get an additional 3.  

They will likely get an AJ Green-type (size wize with the same speed) early and then take a gamble on a smaller school stud with serious wheels.  They have the possession types with Tate and Boyd, but need vertical with Ross's and Green's injury history.

I just hope and pray they make some significant FA plays before the draft (LB and safety top my wish list).

If he's there at 33 and I doubt he will be but it's a possibility...Laviska Shenault Jr. is a playmaker and I want him in stripes.

(01-02-2020, 12:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: They should definitely double dip, because the value will be there and it's a very weak position group.  Boyd is a good #2, but a weak #1.  Ross has flashed, but can't be counted on due to injury and inconsistency.  Tate and Erickson are ok back half of the depth chart options, but they are not players you want seeing a bunch of snaps in a #2 or #3 role.  Tate also has his share of injury issues.

Given that LB is our biggest weak spot on D and it's such a bad LB class, I can honestly see a case for 5 or even more picks going to the offense.  Burrow, 2WR's, T, G, and even TE and/or RB if there's value.
.

You just cant ignore  defense.. I dont see them drafting a tackle, guard weak draft, think they go corner 2nd round, then LB guard WR . .. 

Hell no. We probably can not even afford to draft one WR this year. We have 2 LBs under contract. CB needs attention. John Jerry, Andre, and Cordy were starters at points last year. All will be gone. OL needs picks. Eifert should have played his last snap as a Bengal.

We have 5 locks at WR right now. AJ, Boyd, Ross, Tate, and Erickson. And just spent a whole year developing Morgan and Willis.

We have much more urgent needs elsewhere

I think if we draft for need we're going to be stuck. Just take the best available guys you have on your draft board. It seems like the depth in this year's draft, according to most, is at OT and WR, which is definitely good for us. I do wonder what the future is at TE. Uzomah is under contract and Sample is hanging around, so we may see more out of those guys hopefully. Felt like we didn't utilize that position enough at times.

Every defensive position could potentially stand to gain some help. Linebacker is a big need, but Geno isn't getting younger and we don't have a really good rusher at that position. Williams is fine at safety, though I feel like that's a position that could be upgraded. You can never have enough pass rushers, even with guys like Dunlap, Hubbard, and Lawson manning those spots. There's always the other elephant in the room, as much as it pains me to say it. What's the cornerback situation next year?

I think the roster is top heavy with our most talented guys, but then has a major drop off. This draft is going to be a key one for landing more talent and hopefully we hit on these picks, because the past few drafts have hurt us badly. I could see them fielding calls on that first pick of the second round going in to day two to get more picks unless there's a standout. Maybe someone is willing to move up to get a QB at the beginning of the second.

Sorry for the rambling. Just some late night thoughts.

(01-20-2020, 01:02 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Hell no. We probably can not even afford to draft one WR this year. We have 2 LBs under contract. CB needs attention. John Jerry, Andre, and Cordy were starters at points last year. All will be gone. OL needs picks. Eifert should have played his last snap as a Bengal.

We have 5 locks at WR right now. AJ, Boyd, Ross, Tate, and Erickson. And just spent a whole year developing Morgan and Willis.

We have much more urgent needs elsewhere

I don't think the team looks at O line as the blight that the fans do. After they changed the blocking scheme later in the year the line played much better. They are getting Jonah Williams back next year to play tackle. They added Fred Johnson on waivers later in the year and he looked good in his limited live game action and supposedly they are really high on him, so much so he could be the RT next year and Hart moves to swing tackle. Jordan was better down the stretch at LG and I don't envision them bailing on him after only a year. The fan base won't want to hear it but I'd expect maybe one linemen taken somewhere on day 3.

In terms of LB Taylor has hinted that we possibly will go out to FA to solve that issues. It makes sense as you probably aren't going to stick another rookie next to Pratt. Adding a veteran presence there makes sense and it would seem like Vigil will be back after his play picked up down the back stretch. 

CB does in fact need attention and I could see one going as early as pick 33. We could even potentially double dip here, however Phillips looked good when he got to spot start late and so you may have a situation where they resign Dennard and grab a low tier FA and go into the year with WJ3, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, Phillips and FA. Even if they were to move on from Kirkpatrick I think you'd be okay with Phillips and Dennard along with a FA/Rookie.

WR is still an issue as AJ being here is not set in stone. I think a lot of it will come down to what we do with AJ, but don't sleep on value you just can't pass up. If Tee Higgins is there at pick 33 or if KJ Hamler is there at 65 I think they would consider pulling the trigger. John Ross will be on the last year of his deal as we won't pick up his 5th year option, Erickson will be on the last year of his deal, and AJ has been injury prone three of the last four years. WR is actually in a very similar situation as CB when you look at it. 

(01-20-2020, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: WR is still an issue as AJ being here is not set in stone. I think a lot of it will come down to what we do with AJ, but don't sleep on value you just can't pass up. If Tee Higgins is there at pick 33 or if KJ Hamler is there at 65 I think they would consider pulling the trigger. John Ross will be on the last year of his deal as we won't pick up his 5th year option, Erickson will be on the last year of his deal, and AJ has been injury prone three of the last four years. WR is actually in a very similar situation as CB when you look at it. 

I'm hoping Laviska Shenault Jr. slides because he is fairly raw but he looks like a perfect fit for Joe Burrow. Shenault is alot like Ja'marr Chase.

Talking about filling positional needs through the draft is fun, but after we take Burrow what we need is guys who can actually play football. No more reaches for positions (Og, Price), no more head-scratching "We can see what nobody else sees in this guy" picks (Sample). Some real talent is going to be available at the top of each round. Just write the name on the card, Bengals. And for God's sake use Andy's money in free agency to fill in roster holes.

(01-20-2020, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't think the team looks at O line as the blight that the fans do. After they changed the blocking scheme later in the year the line played much better. They are getting Jonah Williams back next year to play tackle. They added Fred Johnson on waivers later in the year and he looked good in his limited live game action and supposedly they are really high on him, so much so he could be the RT next year and Hart moves to swing tackle. Jordan was better down the stretch at LG and I don't envision them bailing on him after only a year. The fan base won't want to hear it but I'd expect maybe one linemen taken somewhere on day 3.

In terms of LB Taylor has hinted that we possibly will go out to FA to solve that issues. It makes sense as you probably aren't going to stick another rookie next to Pratt. Adding a veteran presence there makes sense and it would seem like Vigil will be back after his play picked up down the back stretch. 

CB does in fact need attention and I could see one going as early as pick 33. We could even potentially double dip here, however Phillips looked good when he got to spot start late and so you may have a situation where they resign Dennard and grab a low tier FA and go into the year with WJ3, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, Phillips and FA. Even if they were to move on from Kirkpatrick I think you'd be okay with Phillips and Dennard along with a FA/Rookie.

WR is still an issue as AJ being here is not set in stone. I think a lot of it will come down to what we do with AJ, but don't sleep on value you just can't pass up. If Tee Higgins is there at pick 33 or if KJ Hamler is there at 65 I think they would consider pulling the trigger. John Ross will be on the last year of his deal as we won't pick up his 5th year option, Erickson will be on the last year of his deal, and AJ has been injury prone three of the last four years. WR is actually in a very similar situation as CB when you look at it. 

I have hope for Jordan and expect him to improve and win a starting job. Fred I don't want to discredit, but he is getting a lot of hype because he is from the Steelers, giant, and played at an acceptable level at LT. Something we all haven't seen much of lately. Would love for him to take the RT job but i'm not willing to lock it in. I also don't want to rule out Price improving. That still only leaves us with Jonah, Jordan, Hopkins, Miller, Johnson, Hart, and Price. 7 OL is not enough. Cordy doesn't want to be here, if he did I would consider paying his enormous salary just to fill that roster hole, but he doesn't so I don't want him here.

Jonah hasn't played a snap in the NFL and whoever keeps drafting offensive linemen for us has proven they suck at their job. Price has not shown he can be trusted. Hart is Bobby Hart. Johnson was an UDFA and cut last year. And we only have seven of them. We have huge question marks and a major lack of NFL caliber bodies at the position. I could get to nine by adding O'Shea Dugas and Isaiah Prince. But I feel like I am being a homer and overestimating them like I tend to do when it comes to our fringe roster guys. I want to do it differently this time. We are lucking in to a stud QB. Invest heavily to protect him and see where he can take us. 

Even if we sign an outside veteran and bring Vigil back that still leaves us with only 4 LBs. Again another lack of bodies.

I would want to fill these spots before investing in a 6th and 7th WR.

(01-20-2020, 11:55 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I have hope for Jordan and expect him to improve and win a starting job. Fred I don't want to discredit, but he is getting a lot of hype because he is from the Steelers, giant, and played at an acceptable level at LT. Something we all haven't seen much of lately. Would love for him to take the RT job but i'm not willing to lock it in. I also don't want to rule out Price improving. That still only leaves us with Jonah, Jordan, Hopkins, Miller, Johnson, Hart, and Price. 7 OL is not enough. Cordy doesn't want to be here, if he did I would consider paying his enormous salary just to fill that roster hole, but he doesn't so I don't want him here.

Jonah hasn't played a snap in the NFL and whoever keeps drafting offensive linemen for us has proven they suck at their job. Price has not shown he can be trusted. Hart is Bobby Hart. Johnson was an UDFA and cut last year. And we only have seven of them. We have huge question marks and a major lack of NFL caliber bodies at the position. I could get to nine by adding O'Shea Dugas and Isaiah Prince. But I feel like I am being a homer and overestimating them like I tend to do when it comes to our fringe roster guys. I want to do it differently this time. We are lucking in to a stud QB. Invest heavily to protect him and see where he can take us. 

Even if we sign an outside veteran and bring Vigil back that still leaves us with only 4 LBs. Again another lack of bodies.

I would want to fill these spots before investing in a 6th and 7th WR.

Like I said, I am just reading in between the lines at O line. I think they take one but I don't think it's until day 3. In all honestly day 3 produces really good O linemen historically because the position is so scheme specific. 

As to the LB's maybe they add another lower level FA LB (Maybe resign Reynolds who played decent) my point more so is there are three starting spots and I expect them to be FA/Pratt/Vigil. They may go LB but again short of a value like Murray sitting there at 33 I think they see better value. Now with that said I could see them finding value at Safety with William's contract ending after the year and them counting Williams/potential other safety as a LB option.

We will see what AJ does. Ross and AJ though aren't reliable injury wise currently which kind of forces the teams hand to some extent in adding more talent. 

I've never been a fan of pigeon holing a position.

There's going to be some great options at #33 - probably including someone that nobody expected to be there. The other more important option is that there will be a ton of trade interest in that spot. I was actually more excited about getting #33 for draft purposes than #1 as there will be a lot of options for it.

(12-31-1969, 09:02 PM)Essex Johnson

[quote='NATI BENGALS Wrote: I have hope for Jordan and expect him to improve and win a starting job. Fred I don't want to discredit, but he is getting a lot of hype because he is from the Steelers, giant, and played at an acceptable level at LT. Something we all haven't seen much of lately. Would love for him to take the RT job but i'm not willing to lock it in. I also don't want to rule out Price improving. That still only leaves us with Jonah, Jordan, Hopkins, Miller, Johnson, Hart, and Price. 7 OL is not enough. Cordy doesn't want to be here, if he did I would consider paying his enormous salary just to fill that roster hole, but he doesn't so I don't want him here.

Jonah hasn't played a snap in the NFL and whoever keeps drafting offensive linemen for us has proven they suck at their job. Price has not shown he can be trusted. Hart is Bobby Hart. Johnson was an UDFA and cut last year. And we only have seven of them. We have huge question marks and a major lack of NFL caliber bodies at the position. I could get to nine by adding O'Shea Dugas and Isaiah Prince. But I feel like I am being a homer and overestimating them like I tend to do when it comes to our fringe roster guys. I want to do it differently this time. We are lucking in to a stud QB. Invest heavily to protect him and see where he can take us. 

Even if we sign an outside veteran and bring Vigil back that still leaves us with only 4 LBs. Again another lack of bodies.

I would want to fill these spots before investing in a 6th and 7th WR.

If you're concerned about the OL and protecting Burrow, you need to address it in FA, not the draft.  The chances of getting an immediate upgrade of significance are slim.  Not saying it's the gospel, but here's the PFF grades for the 4 T's drafted after Jonah last year....

Tytus Howard-59.4
Andre Dillard-59.7
Cody Ford-52.4
Jawaan Taylor-63.9

Bobby Hart-57.7
Fred Johnson-62.6

Fred is ahead of the curve in the quality of play you would expect out of a late 1st-early 2nf round pick. This is also a young OL room with only two guys not on their rookie deals.  Stacking youth on top of youth isn't a good idea because of the steep development curve for OL.

Not sure where you're getting your LB counts from, but we have 3 under contract and 1 RFA who is basically a guaranteed resign.  Vigil and an UFA would make 6.

Since we know the Bengals aren't going to go out and blow big money on free agents, the line would be in decent shape if we kept everyone:

Glenn, Jonah, Jordan, Hopkins, Miller, Hart, Johnson are a good start.

I would love to see them sign a legit interior linemen and then add a tackle in the draft. That would take care of the line.