(01-08-2020, 09:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Peterman comparison is quite a stretch. We’ve seen HC’s struggle their 1st season and go on to become good coaches. Have we ever seen a terrible backup QB be as bad as Peterman go on to have a good career as a starter?

Favre was the worst QB ever in year 1 in Atlanta.  He made Johnny Fartball look like a sure thing. 

I'm getting us off track though.

(01-08-2020, 09:32 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh, I guess.  By that logic though Nathan Peterman is a bigger question mark than Andy Dalton since Peterman has a short resume of crap and Dalton has a long resume that has a winning record but doesn't involve statement wins that Peterman could conceivably still get if he's given a chance.

If you are looking at two resumes and one has been working for a year with dead-last results and one has been working for a decade with slightly above average results and you think going with the younger guy is the right move because he might go from awful to great I would say you are indeed using a good bit of optimism in that judgment.  

Actually, Garret and Marvin are more like guys who have steady jobs but aren't very exciting and ZT is broke and living in his parents' basement but he's in a band and he might make it big and become rich and famous.  You'd hate to miss out on that, right?  Grab hold of that star!  Yeah, that's the comparison I want to make.  Ignore that resume one above this.

I can't see the future, so it is possible that next year in the NFL the Browns, Mitch Trubisky, Zac Taylor, and Josh Rosen are all aces and giving the doubters a big ol' crapola granola sandwich to eat.  You thought we sucked for good reason, but we are the 180 squad!

For every Nathan Peterman there's a Ryan Tannehill. 

(01-08-2020, 10:16 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: For every Nathan Peterman there's a Ryan Tannehill. 

Did you intentionally pick a QB who disappointed while ZT was his coach?

(01-08-2020, 10:37 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Did you intentionally pick a QB who disappointed while ZT was his coach?

:andy:

I'll do a 180 here. ZT is our Chuck Noll who flopped early and Burrow is our Terry Bradshaw he took with the 1st overall pick. Maybe we can snag our Mean Joe Greene soon.

(01-08-2020, 09:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Peterman comparison is quite a stretch. We’ve seen HC’s struggle their 1st season and go on to become good coaches. Have we ever seen a terrible backup QB be as bad as Peterman go on to have a good career as a starter?

I'm pretty sure 49'er fans were ready to run Kyle Shanahan out of town his first year. They looked pretty good this year

(01-08-2020, 12:26 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I'm pretty sure 49'er fans were ready to run Kyle Shanahan out of town his first year. They looked pretty good this year

I bet some Browns fans wanted Hue out after year 1 too.  But in all fairness, where is the point of no return for ZT?  How many games does he get before we can judge him as a HC?

(01-08-2020, 01:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I bet some Browns fans wanted Hue out after year 1 too.  But in all fairness, where is the point of no return for ZT?  How many games does he get before we can judge him as a HC?

I would say at the end of this next year we are going to have a good idea of what kind of coach he really is.

Neither would be my answer.

Garrett had some success, but was a long term dud.

Taylor has never had success and put forth the worse team in the league.

There's gotta be somebody better.

(01-08-2020, 01:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I bet some Browns fans wanted Hue out after year 1 too.  But in all fairness, where is the point of no return for ZT?  How many games does he get before we can judge him as a HC?

For the record I answered no on whether we should bring Taylor back on that questions thread. I don’t think he’s a good coach so far, and he’s an even worse play caller. But again, there’s a chance he improves.

I just want nothing to do with Garrett. I’d rather remain bad under Taylor and rack up high draft picks than go back to being middle of the pack like we were under Marvin most years.

If Taylor doesn’t get any better at least we’ll get some good players out of it.

(01-08-2020, 01:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I bet some Browns fans wanted Hue out after year 1 too.  But in all fairness, where is the point of no return for ZT?  How many games does he get before we can judge him as a HC?

There are no right nor wrong answers to that question, unfortunately.

But in my not so humble opinion, 1 year with a really shitty team doesn't meet the criteria

(01-08-2020, 01:42 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: For the record I answered no on whether we should bring Taylor back on that questions thread. I don’t think he’s a good coach so far, and he’s an even worse play caller. But again, there’s a chance he improves.

I just want nothing to do with Garrett. I’d rather remain bad under Taylor and rack up high draft picks than go back to being middle of the pack like we were under Marvin most years.

If Taylor doesn’t get any better at least we’ll get some good players out of it.

Fair enough. 

(01-08-2020, 01:53 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: There are no right nor wrong answers to that question, unfortunately.

But in my not so humble opinion, 1 year with a really shitty team doesn't meet the criteria

I agree but it would be easier to take that 2 win season if the FO and we as a fan base spent more time in the offseason talking about what a garbage roster we had.  

We went from any coach but marvin can win with this roster to no coach can win with this roster.  Extreme examples, but we were pretty high on our win now roster and ZT was going to resurrect Dalton and Ross and so on.

(01-08-2020, 01:06 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I bet some Browns fans wanted Hue out after year 1 too.  But in all fairness, where is the point of no return for ZT?  How many games does he get before we can judge him as a HC?

IMO, 1 more year. This team could have just given up, but it didn't. Small victory, I know, however to me it shows that ZT can get more out of these players and hopefully we add better players this offseason. 

(01-08-2020, 01:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I agree but it would be easier to take that 2 win season if the FO and we as a fan base spent more time in the offseason talking about what a garbage roster we had.  

We went from any coach but marvin can win with this roster to no coach can win with this roster.  Extreme examples, but we were pretty high on our win now roster and ZT was going to resurrect Dalton and Ross and so on.

Can't speak to anyone else's motivations, and I've never been one to make many excuses for a coach. But with all the injuries and general, overall lack of talent, I can't indict Zac for 2019. Not entirely. As to whether it would have been any better under Merv - that's all sophistry and conjecture, as I'm not sure it matters. For better or worse Michael Brown hired a coach who obviously required a lot of OJT. 

(01-08-2020, 02:24 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Can't speak to anyone else's motivations, and I've never been one to make many excuses for a coach. But with all the injuries and general, overall lack of talent, I can't indict Zac for 2019. Not entirely. As to whether it would have been any better under Merv - that's all sophistry and conjecture, as I'm not sure it matters. For better or worse Michael Brown hired a coach who obviously required a lot of OJT. 

Was our roster 4 losses worse or more hurt in 2019 than it was in 2018?  Can we fix a roster that is so bad a decent or possibly great coach can go 2-14 with it?  Stay tuned, I guess. 

(01-08-2020, 02:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Was our roster 4 losses worse or more hurt in 2019 than it was in 2018?  Can we fix a roster that is so bad a decent or possibly great coach can go 2-14 with it?  Stay tuned, I guess. 

So, for the record - if you had the authority to fire Zac right now, you'd do it? 

(01-08-2020, 03:35 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: So, for the record - if you had the authority to fire Zac right now, you'd do it? 

Do I have the authority to hire a HC and GM and stuff?  If so, then yes.  I understand how this franchise operates though so we may as well cross our fingers and hope he performs well above his resume and 1st year.

Being in the basement of the division by a 4 game gap and staring 0-11 are both pretty hard to stomach.  

(01-08-2020, 03:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Do I have the authority to hire a HC and GM and stuff?  If so, then yes.  I understand how this franchise operates though so we may as well cross our fingers and hope he performs well above his resume and 1st year.

Being in the basement of the division by a 4 game gap and staring 0-11 are both pretty hard to stomach.  

You're Mike Brown. You can even steal from the taxpayers. The world is your rotten, red tide-infested oyster.

(01-08-2020, 03:43 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: You're Mike Brown. You can even steal from the taxpayers. The world is your rotten, red tide-infested oyster.

I'd start backup QBs only, only pay players the league minimum, and insist the coach run the ball 50 times per game.  I'd call my team "the team everyone says they want for some reason" and watch the stadium fill to the brim.