Is it me or is Carlos Dunlap the real MVP of this team with his consistency year in and year out not to mention putting up his best season yet at the age of 30 years old. I was watching one of those talking head shows yesterday talking about how there can be a case made that we should trade burrow and somehow get chase young and how this would improve the team. One thing that stuck out to me was one of them saying that Chase Young is good but he has no one across from him. I don't even think these guys know who plays for the teams before they talk out their ass.

(01-22-2020, 11:33 AM)Okeana Wrote: Is it me or is Carlos Dunlap the real MVP of this team with his consistency year in and year out not to mention putting up his best season yet at the age of 30 years old.  I was watching one of those talking head shows yesterday talking about how there can be a case made that we should trade burrow and somehow get chase young and how this would improve the team.   One thing that stuck out to me was one of them saying that Chase Young is good but he has no one across from him.  I don't even think these guys know who plays for the teams before they talk out their ass.

I watched that same video. The guys in that video are idiots.

They were talking about "Well Burrow is great, but what if the Bengals could trade down and then get Chase Young and Tua? Wouldn't that be better than just Burrow?"

And it's like...yea...that would probably be better than Joe Burrow, albeit just barely, considering Tua's substantial injury risk. Would I do that? I'd be tempted, but I think I'd ultimately stick with Burrow over the two.

But they didn't say how they would go about making that happen.

Like...How do you get the #2 overall pick AND a top 10 pick for the #1 overall pick?

Because Young is going #2 no matter what. There's no way Washington doesn't pick him if he's available. And Tua is going to Miami or San Diego unless his medicals come back all messed up (in which case, why would we want him over Burrow?)

They offer no explanation for how they'd get that trade done and I don't really see any possibility of it. Like, trade with Miami for all 3 first round picks, then trade the #5 and one of the firsts for the #2 pick? Maybe? And then move up from the other first round pick into the top 10 to get Tua by, I dunno, giving away next year's first round pick? But if we take Tua, then that means Dalton or maybe even Finley is our QB again next year, which means we'd probably have a top half of the round first round pick (and that's being generous. It could be a top 10 or even top 5 pick with Dalton or Finley as QB). 

It just made no sense.

So when they said there'd be no one opposite Chase Young, it didn't surprise me. They know absolutely nothing, so it makes sense that they are not aware that Dunlap, Hubbard and Lawson exist and are formidable pass rushers.

EDIT:
Here's the video, for reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-Wb1kQpp4Y

I was doing a lot of arguing with the people that named him in that overrated thread we had over the summer. I think it’s the opposite tbh. Always have. Geno gets all the love, but both have been great players for us. Carlos will probably hold our sack record for a long time.

As far as “our MVP” I’d say that’s actually been AJ during our good years. We’re just a different team when he’s on the field.

(01-22-2020, 11:33 AM)Okeana Wrote: Is it me or is Carlos Dunlap the real MVP of this team with his consistency year in and year out not to mention putting up his best season yet at the age of 30 years old.  I was watching one of those talking head shows yesterday talking about how there can be a case made that we should trade burrow and somehow get chase young and how this would improve the team.   One thing that stuck out to me was one of them saying that Chase Young is good but he has no one across from him.  I don't even think these guys know who plays for the teams before they talk out their ass.

I'm a OSU homer big time and I gotta say I was highly disappointed in Young the last 3 games he played. He was so dominate and then it was like a switch went off and he didn't do shit. 

(01-22-2020, 11:54 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I'm a OSU homer big time and I gotta say I was highly disappointed in Young the last 3 games he played. He was so dominate and then it was like a switch went off and he didn't do shit. 

I was somewhat disappointed as well, but every time they showed a replay with him in it, he was either being triple-teamed or held like crazy.  

(01-22-2020, 11:33 AM)Okeana Wrote: Is it me or is Carlos Dunlap the real MVP of this team with his consistency year in and year out not to mention putting up his best season yet at the age of 30 years old. I was watching one of those talking head shows yesterday talking about how there can be a case made that we should trade burrow and somehow get chase young and how this would improve the team. One thing that stuck out to me was one of them saying that Chase Young is good but he has no one across from him. I don't even think these guys know who plays for the teams before they talk out their ass.

2015 was his best season, by far.

I will say though that this was his second best season and if he wasn't playing injured for 7 games, it had the potential to be his best year.

The guy is just a solid player and citizen; as Nicomo said, not only will he hold the sack record for a long time, but I think he'll be adding to it for another 5 years, unless he retires to become a full-out restaurateur.

btw for those who are excited to see Chase Young in a thread. I just want to make it clear that under no circumstance am I saying I would take young over burrow and in fact, I think Young is very overrated. He will not be a Bosa on the next level and he's not a generational talent. He has major weaknesses in the run game and his technique is nothing special. He is a top tier prospect, but I think he will be an above-average player at best in the league.

But that's not really on point. The fact that Dunlap is completely overlooked is a crime

Dunlap had been one of my favorites since he was one of the few bright spots on the team during his rookie season. He was on a streak of scoring TDs every time I would go to a game years ago.

(01-22-2020, 12:17 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 2015 was his best season, by far.

I will say though that this was his second best season and if he wasn't playing injured for 7 games, it had the potential to be his best year.

The guy is just a solid player and citizen; as Nicomo said, not only will he hold the sack record for a long time, but I think he'll be adding to it for another 5 years, unless he retires to become a full-out restaurateur.

he had more sacks, but statistically 2019 was a better year

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/carlos-dunlap/5579?season=2019

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/carlos-dunlap/5579?season=2015

really I think it's kinda obtuse and a waste of time to argue minor details

I do think it's funny however that 2016 was statistically worse than this year yet he went to the probowl and meanwhile he performed better overall than geno atkins this year, but didn't get selected.  Obviously Geno deserves to go and he draws the most double teams so his stats won't be the best.

(01-22-2020, 12:56 PM)Okeana Wrote: he had more sacks, but statistically 2019 was a better year

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/carlos-dunlap/5579?season=2019

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/carlos-dunlap/5579?season=2015

really I think it's kinda obtuse and a waste of time to argue minor details

I do think it's funny however that 2016 was statistically worse than this year yet he went to the probowl and meanwhile he performed better overall than geno atkins this year, but didn't get selected.  Obviously Geno deserves to go and he draws the most double teams so his stats won't be the best.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DunlCa99.htm

More:

- Sacks
- TFL (could have been equal this year, had he been healthy)
- (SIGNIFICANTLY) QB hits
- Fumble recoveries (and the one he did recover was arguably the best FF and recovery since 2000, for the Bengals)

Equal:

- Forced Fumbles

Less:

- Solo (by 2) and total tackles (by more than 2).
- PDs

Aside from PDs, which is one of his bread and butter stats, 2015 was the significantly better year.

We can agree to disagree, but he was much more productive and put up better numbers in 2015 and that's a fact (2015 is when PFF's grades started to turn to shit, so that's a no-go on the subjectivity).

Again, will give you that had he been healthy this year, it probably would've been MUCH better than his 2015; his sack numbers have always trended in the same direction (7.5, 8.0, High, 8.0, 7.5, 8.0, High). Hopefully the trend does not continue this year.

And he made the PB due to a weaker DE class and the fact that he had more PDs than 90% of CBs in the league.

(01-22-2020, 12:44 PM)Okeana Wrote: btw for those who are excited to see Chase Young in a thread. I just want to make it clear that under no circumstance am I saying I would take young over burrow and in fact, I think Young is very overrated. He will not be a Bosa on the next level and he's not a generational talent. He has major weaknesses in the run game and his technique is nothing special. He is a top tier prospect, but I think he will be an above-average player at best in the league.

But that's not really on point. The fact that Dunlap is completely overlooked is a crime

Want to touch on this as well.

Since he came into the league (until 2015, before PFF changed their grades), Dunlap was ALWAYS in the top 3 LDE grade, on PFF, be it as a starter or backup.

His pressure numbers have always been top 5 (if not top 3) of ANY defender in the league and his TFL numbers are double digits, every year.

He leads in PDs since 2015 for all non-CBs (even more than Kuechly, the consensus best coverage LB in the league) and has been in coverage on RBs and TEs, holding his own (though he has been in coverage against some WRs for completely idiotic reasons and it has bitten them in the ass consistently).

The one thing that is always overlooked though, is his work in the run game; that's why his TFL numbers are always so high. He is simply the best run defending 4-3 DE in the league and I will fight that to the death.

Though his contact is up in 2 years (I think), I still see him signing one more 3 year deal before he's done.

bfine said back in 2010 that he was our best pick in the draft and the best value pick for the ENTIRE draft (after Geno, as time has told) ad truthfully, I think that still rings true in 2020.

(01-22-2020, 01:10 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DunlCa99.htm

More:

- Sacks
- TFL (could have been equal this year, had he been healthy)
- (SIGNIFICANTLY) QB hits
- Fumble recoveries (and the one he did recover was arguably the best FF and recovery since 2000, for the Bengals)

Equal:

- Forced Fumbles

Less:

- Solo (by 2) and total tackles (by more than 2).
- PDs

Aside from PDs, which is one of his bread and butter stats, 2015 was the significantly better year.

We can agree to disagree, but he was much more productive and put up better numbers in 2015 and that's a fact (2015 is when PFF's grades started to turn to shit, so that's a no-go on the subjectivity).

Again, will give you that had he been healthy this year, it probably would've been MUCH better than his 2015; his sack numbers have always trended in the same direction (7.5, 8.0, High, 8.0, 7.5, 8.0, High). Hopefully the trend does not continue this year.

And he made the PB due to a weaker DE class and the fact that he had more PDs than 90% of CBs in the league.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cue

(01-22-2020, 01:18 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Want to touch on this as well.

Since he came into the league (until 2015, before PFF changed their grades), Dunlap was ALWAYS in the top 3 LDE grade, on PFF, be it as a starter or backup.

His pressure numbers have always been top 5 (if not top 3) of ANY defender in the league and his TFL numbers are double digits, every year.

He leads in PDs since 2015 for all non-CBs (even more than Kuechly, the consensus best coverage LB in the league) and has been in coverage on RBs and TEs, holding his own (though he has been in coverage against some WRs for completely idiotic reasons and it has bitten them in the ass consistently).

The one thing that is always overlooked though, is his work in the run game; that's why his TFL numbers are always so high. He is simply the best run defending 4-3 DE in the league and I will fight that to the death.

Though his contact is up in 2 years (I think), I still see him signing one more 3 year deal before he's done.

bfine said back in 2010 that he was our best pick in the draft and the best value pick for the ENTIRE draft (after Geno, as time has told) ad truthfully, I think that still rings true in 2020.

I think we will see a great year from Carlos next year, if he and Hubbard stay healthy. As Sam gets better, he is becoming a monster, and with (and to an extent Lawson) on the other side and Geno in the middle, he should have a great season. Especially if we aren't playing from behind and the other team is having to pass to keep up....

(01-22-2020, 01:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think we will see a great year from Carlos next year, if he and Hubbard stay healthy. As Sam gets better, he is becoming a monster, and with (and to an extent Lawson) on the other side and Geno in the middle, he should have a great season. Especially if we aren't playing from behind and the other team is having to pass to keep up....

Seems like everyone on D had teething issues, then after the bye a light switch was flipped (really, after Brown was released).

Everyone played much better, so I see the line progressing well. Will need to add a player or two to the rotation, however.

(01-22-2020, 01:45 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Seems like everyone on D had teething issues, then after the bye a light switch was flipped (really, after Brown was released).

Everyone played much better, so I see the line progressing well. Will need to add a player or two to the rotation, however.

Well, Dunlap and Lawson healed up at about the same time didn't they? As Pratt learned the pro game and got better, Vigil's play improved, since he was no longer basically the only backer on the field. Webb was playing most of the season with his hand in a cast. Jackson had an off year, but people have to remember he was supposed to be the next great shut down corner. Add all that to a new system, I think growing pains were to be expected.

Dunlap, Lawson, and Hubbard are three really good players and I think we're safe at Defensive End. In fact if Burrow wasn't an option I would take Simmons over Young for the #1 pick.

(01-22-2020, 02:06 PM)J24 Wrote: Dunlap, Lawson, and Hubbard are three really good players and I think we're safe at Defensive End. In fact if Burrow wasn't an option I would take Simmons over Young for the #1 pick.

hot take I think Jeff Okudah is better than young and Simmons.  A lot of the success Young had was due to the fact that their backfield was so damn good

Dunlap may not be MVP of the team, but he is pretty underrated around here.

Since 2013 Dunlap ranks. . .

2nd in the league in QB Hits (Only JJ Watt has more). Carlos is the only player in the league to have 20 QB hits each of the last 7 seasons.
9th in total tackles (4th among DEs)
10th in sacks (7th among DEs)
11th in tackles for loss (8th among DEs)

Carlos is one of my favorite Bengals ever. Met him here at UF (he was playing football, I was watching).

In fact, my 2 favorite Bengals are both also Gators who won National Titles while at UF (Reggie Nelson, Carlos Dunlap).

(01-22-2020, 11:33 AM)Okeana Wrote: Is it me or is Carlos Dunlap the real MVP of this team with his consistency year in and year out not to mention putting up his best season yet at the age of 30 years old.  I was watching one of those talking head shows yesterday talking about how there can be a case made that we should trade burrow and somehow get chase young and how this would improve the team.   One thing that stuck out to me was one of them saying that Chase Young is good but he has no one across from him.  I don't even think these guys know who plays for the teams before they talk out their ass.

Man is Dunlap underrated, always has been in my opinion. Dude is one of the most disruptive Ends in the League and has 
shown it year in and year out. For those talking heads to say that just shows you, probably ESPN though huh?

I like Chase Young but he disappeared when good teams concentrated in taking him out of the game. We can add another 
pass rusher after we take care of the O-line and Linebackers. Hubbard is damn good too, same with Lawson when he is 
healthy. Draft Joe Burrow.