I'm not in the business of defending the Sample pick, but is there something carved in stone that says Drew Sample will never amount to anything? I mean, what happens if he has a break out season next year, catches 7 TDs and gains 1000 yards and has several key blocks? I'm in no way predicting that's gonna be the case, but one rookie season of little to no production doesn't carve anything in stone other than that washed out season.. Personally I hope he has the best season any TE has ever had for the Bengals. That doesn't mean I think it's gonna happen. It only means I hope it'll happen. Then again I hope a winning (and legible) Power Ball ticket just blows into my hand and I actually bother to check the drawing results in time.

(01-23-2020, 12:28 PM)grampahol Wrote: I'm not in the business of defending the Sample pick, but is there something carved in stone that says Drew Sample will never amount to anything? I mean, what happens if he has a break out season next year, catches 7 TDs and gains 1000 yards and has several key blocks? I'm in no way predicting that's gonna be the case, but one rookie season of little to no production doesn't carve anything in stone other than that washed out season.. Personally I hope he has the best season any TE has ever had for the Bengals. That doesn't mean I think it's gonna happen. It only means I hope it'll happen.

Even if he turns out to be halfway decent, that doesn’t negate the fact that they massively reached for him. He could have been had two rounds later. I don’t believe the bs about other teams supposedly being interested that early.

(01-23-2020, 12:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Even if he turns out to be halfway decent, that doesn’t negate the fact that they massively reached for him. He could have been had two rounds later. I don’t believe the bs about other teams supposedly being interested that early.

One thing you can pretty much count on is no other team is gonna come right out and say, "We REALLY wanted that Sample guy and the Bengals beat us to him." unless he happens to become a sure fire HOFer..
Here's a suggestion, hold your breath waiting for that to occur.

(01-23-2020, 12:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was given complete and absolute control over picking his own staff, I would find it very hard to believe he wasn’t a major voice in deciding each one of those draft picks.

You have any real proof of this, or just a couple of fluff quotes and pieces?

You have no clue how much actually control he had over that entire process.

(01-23-2020, 12:28 PM)grampahol Wrote: I'm not in the business of defending the Sample pick, but is there something carved in stone that says Drew Sample will never amount to anything? I mean, what happens if he has a break out season next year, catches 7 TDs and gains 1000 yards and has several key blocks? I'm in no way predicting that's gonna be the case, but one rookie season of little to no production doesn't carve anything in stone other than that washed out season.. Personally I hope he has the best season any TE has ever had for the Bengals. That doesn't mean I think it's gonna happen. It only means I hope it'll happen. Then again I hope a winning (and legible) Power Ball ticket just blows into my hand and I actually bother to check the drawing results in time.

The crow would taste delicious :)

(01-23-2020, 12:40 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You have any real proof of this, or just a couple of fluff quotes and pieces?

You have no clue how much actually control he had over that entire process.

Umm...proof of what? That he hired a bunch of people he’s friends with or has worked with before? That’s a fact.

Ofc I have no clue on the draft picks. None of us do. But last time I checked this was a message board to discuss such things. The majority of what goes on here is speculation.

(01-23-2020, 12:25 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People were literally saying it over and over when we took Ross...

Ross was a need pick, and a lazy one at that.

Sanu and Marvin Jones just left the year prior. Our #2, as a stop-gap, was Brandon Lafell, who was never a long-term option. And Boyd was a complete unknown at that point, who looked to be a slot option. We needed a WR to pair with AJ.

Two receivers went just ahead of Ross (Mike Williams and Corey Davis) leaving him as the only WR left with a 1st round grade. The next guy didn't go until the middle of the 2nd.

So we drafted a need, and we simply took who was available. We reached. But I don't know how you can point to this as evidence as Mike Brown routinely loving sexy picks.

And even if he does love a sexy pick here and there, none of that refutes the idea that he also values old-school philosophy (Blocking Tight-Ends). You can do both.

I guarantee Mike and the FO had their hands all in the Sample pick.

(01-23-2020, 12:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But last time I checked this was a message board to discuss such things. The majority of what goes on here is speculation.

This right here isn't speculation or made to appear as opinion, it's stated as fact...

(01-23-2020, 12:23 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was given complete and absolute control over picking his own staff

(01-23-2020, 09:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Taylor’s first draft looks pretty ugly so far. Time will tell, but Jonah Williams better work out or it will set us back even more.

And there is still no defending that Sample pick.

People sure as hell tried to defend it.  Where are they now?

Already a bust hunh?

Drafting is hit or miss many times.
I liked the Sample pick, ofc I thought he could have been taken in a later round, but WE are not privy to the same information that they are and we aren't the only team drafting players. If NE drafted him and developed him and he broke out in his year 2, many of you would be bitching we missed out on him and should have grabbed him. It's rarely ever a win win for the Bengals.

And anyone that expected Sample to be a Noah Fant from day one, is wrong. He's not that guy. He needs to develop his skills. I'm not saying he is gonna rock it, but the potential is there. He's showed enough on the limited pass catching side to where he is a strong candidate for a year 2-3 break out player. Just give the man a chance before dismissing him.

with the already obvious problems on o line and LBs there was no excuse wasting the second pick on a tight end, even assuming sample graded out as a second round prospect- which I highly doubt.

The last few drafts have been truly awful. They got Mixon only because they were lucky that no one else wanted a top 10 talent because of his assault record.

Almost every other pick since the Og and Fisher picks has been average to abysmal.

Given the track record of the last few years and the deep decline in the team's performance, Wouldn't any other owner besides Mike Brown question the scouting resources and draft assessment and at least think about changing things up, bringing in more people, hiring an experienced and objective GM from the outside who was not slanted by Bengal insider thinking .

(01-23-2020, 12:44 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Umm...proof of what? That he hired a bunch of people he’s friends with or has worked with before? That’s a fact.

Maybe he had a budget? Maybe he had other friends he wanted who were too expensive? Maybe he had any other coaches in mind who were too expensive? Maybe his friends were the only ones who would take the job?

You have no clue if these were his 1st choices, and he complete and absolute control of the process.

Captain Lou was like the 3rd or 4th guy offered or interviewed for the job. Were they all Taylor's friends?

These are the same "experts' that rated the Bengals draft as an A-. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-2019-Draft-Grade-Bengals?highlight=2019+draft+grade

Luvnit2: B- (could be an A)
Essex Johnson: A
Crazyjdawg: B
Bronxbengal: D+
kevin: NEW DEY. NEW DEY
*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*: A+
BritishBengal: B-
mon4078: B
OSUfan: B
THE PISTONS: B
psychdoctor: B+
Nickslycat: Last to first, mark it.
bengaloo: A


- - - - - - - - - - - -

A pretty good amount of Sample-rationalization in there.

Also a downright shocking amount of Ryan Finley love in that thread. People saying he was an outstanding pick, and others saying he'll be leading the Bengals deep into the playoffs.

(01-23-2020, 10:25 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: In his defense, he was hired on February 4th. Brian Callahan wasn't hired until February 7th and Lou Anarumo wasn't hired until February 21st.

So that was a lot of time where we had essentially no coordinators or head coaches actively scouting for us. They all missed the Senior Bowl, for example.

This year they've had since December to scout, so that should help.

We'll skip the part where we realize that your coaches should not be your principal scouts but...you know...Bengals be Bengaling sometimes.

I mean just turn on ESPN during the draft and draft Tod McShays next "best available" guy rather than Drew Sample (a guy you could have gotten in the last round). 

(01-23-2020, 12:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really think people are too quick to assign blame to Zach Taylor for the Drew Sample pick.

Tell me which of these sounds more likely to value a blocking Tight End: A young (36) offensive minded coach coming out of the ultra-modern Rams system? Or the 80+ year old GM and his lackeys that believe in things like "play in the cold, practice in the cold", "we don't make trades because we're not in the business of making other teams better"?

That pick has Mike Brown and his "Yes Man" Tobin written all over it.

Even if you think Taylor is/was a terrible hire, I just refuse to believe a guy with his background is clamoring for a blocking tight end in round 2.

I've seen interviews where Zac Taylor defended the Sample pick and said his system needs a good blocking tight end. 

I find it REALLY hard to believe that Mike Brown wanted or cared to draft a guy like Drew Sample in the second round - hell Id be surprised if he even knew who he was. 

To everyone ripping the sample pick:

The pick itself isn't the problem, its where he was picked. This dude could have literally been undrafted for all we know and the Bengals took him in the second round. I saw projections of him going in the 6th round.

Here are picks that we could have had instead of drew sample. Jahlani Tavai, Erik McCoy, Elgton Jenkins, Irv Smith Jr., A. J. Brown. All of these guys had above average to great rookie years and were in the 1-2 round range. We drafted a blocking tight end that was in the 4-6 round range. There is absolutely no excuse for Drew Sample and anyone who justifies it just doesn't understand the purpose of the draft or how to scout players.

Sample will probably never play up to his second round spot but it is too early to say this was a bad draft.
It’s going to look terrible when your first rounder misses his entire first year but if he is a franchise LT and Pratt, Wren and Jordan become solid starters/back ups then this becomes a good draft class. Too early to tell but the Sample pick doesn’t look like a good one.

(01-23-2020, 01:37 PM)Okeana Wrote: Here are picks that we could have had instead of drew sample.  Jahlani Tavai, Erik McCoy, Elgton Jenkins, Irv Smith Jr., A. J. Brown.  All of these guys had above average to great rookie years and were in the 1-2 round range.  We drafted a blocking tight end that was in the 4-6 round range.  There is absolutely no excuse for Drew Sample and anyone who justifies it just doesn't understand the purpose of the draft or how to scout players.

All of those players went before the Sample pick. You can attack the trade but maybe they were targeting Irv Smith Jr. who went 2 picks before Sample and they went with the next TE in their board.