(02-03-2020, 11:17 PM)iLLuSi0nz Wrote: Agreed. Outside of him pulling something saying he won't play here I don't really see the downside. If he fails you probably fail too and look who is sitting there next year at or near the top of the class.

I'd rather roll with this guy and fail hard vs trading the pick and regretting it for the next decade or longer. I'd be so pissed every time highlights came on I doubt I could even watch sports period.

You don't have to fix the team in one season. Unless this guy is other worldly in the NFL and all the stars in the universe align we realistically aren't going to the Superbowl in 2021.

Year one I want us to be competitive and shoot for making the playoffs and or win a playoff game. Do this thing right and fix the line via free agency and the draft. Show Burrow you are serious in free agency and put any doubts as ease. Bring AJ back or go get another good receiver or two for this kid to throw to. 

Work on the other side of the ball late in the draft, UDFA, and next year. Who knows maybe you get super lucky and end up getting the Arian Foster of the D as a UDFA. Chiefs D wasn't elite and they were just a tad beyond competitive

Need to give Burrow some weapons for sure man. Our guys we currently have are very injury prone.

There is absolutely no reason to not bring in weapons with the CBA expiring, us needing to trade Dalton and other players 
honestly. Take care of the Line, so Burrow has time and get some good Linebackers in here and all is good IMO.

Every player can be a bust, even Burrow but I find it hard to see him being a bust unless he has freak injuries.

(02-03-2020, 03:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Exactly, you don't get a chance to get elite QB's often if ever.

Why is this so hard to comprehend for some?

Because he is not elite....He had one phenomenal season.....he weighs 215 pounds at 6' 3"....he does not possess elite arm strength...He is though a very smart and accurate thrower ala Peyton Manning.... That is saying a lot though, comparing him to manning but that is what I see with him but can he overcome being sacked 50-60 times a year like Manning did the first few years.. Will his brains outshine his lack of arm strength in certain situations?  

It is not hard to comprehend because there are certain aspects about him that are not elite.

Luck was elite...Go back and look at draft reports and stats from as far back as his sophomore year.  One of the best prospects in 20 years, a definitive number one overall draft pick.  No OL and got killed by it and having to run the ball.  Mediocre NFL stats and 6 year career.  All of this to a stud of a QB, probably 10 times the prospect that Joe Burrow is.


I am not going to be mad and have resigned to the fact that the Burrow will be the pick.  I just do not see what everyone else does.  I do not see a prototypical number one overall QB.  I hope he comes here and the Bengals magically make some moves and we have a majestic OL and he is the rookie of the year.  unfortunately after 40 years of watching this team I just do not see it happening.

I also would not be unhappy if they traded the pick for 3-4 1st rounders and a few more 2-3 rounders and drafted someone like Herbert or Eason alter on.  

Here is the thing for me...The Bengals have come straight out over the years and told everyone that they build through the draft and are not players early in FA.  This means that if you have more picks and bust on half you still can get a few out of the picks that will contribute or start.

Example

we do the trade from what I have seen
Swap from 1 to 5
their 18th
their 2 and 3
and possibly 1-2 more 1st the next two years

that gives us picks
5, 18, 33, 39, 65 and 70

SIX picks in the top 70, this year...even if 2 (QB, OL, LB) are day one starters, one develops over time and one is significant on STs or such then that is a success,  that is getting 4 quality players out of the draft over time (hopefully)

compared to staying pat...
1 pick in each of the 1st 3 rounds.
Burrow will start
33rd- hopefully a day one starter (OL, LB)
65th- who knows???

Sorry, I just can't get not trading out of this pick out of my mind.  It would have to be something similar to the above to do it.

(02-04-2020, 05:19 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Because he is not elite....He had one phenomenal season.....he weighs 215 pounds at 6' 3"....he does not possess elite arm strength...He is though a very smart and accurate thrower ala Peyton Manning.... That is saying a lot though, comparing him to manning but that is what I see with him but can he overcome being sacked 50-60 times a year like Manning did the first few years.. Will his brains outshine his lack of arm strength in certain situations?  

It is not hard to comprehend because there are certain aspects about him that are not elite.

Luck was elite...Go back and look at draft reports and stats from as far back as his sophomore year.  One of the best prospects in 20 years, a definitive number one overall draft pick.  No OL and got killed by it and having to run the ball.  Mediocre NFL stats and 6 year career.  All of this to a stud of a QB, probably 10 times the prospect that Joe Burrow is.


I am not going to be mad and have resigned to the fact that the Burrow will be the pick.  I just do not see what everyone else does.  I do not see a prototypical number one overall QB.  I hope he comes here and the Bengals magically make some moves and we have a majestic OL and he is the rookie of the year.  unfortunately after 40 years of watching this team I just do not see it happening.

I also would not be unhappy if they traded the pick for 3-4 1st rounders and a few more 2-3 rounders and drafted someone like Herbert or Eason alter on.  

Here is the thing for me...The Bengals have come straight out over the years and told everyone that they build through the draft and are not players early in FA.  This means that if you have more picks and bust on half you still can get a few out of the picks that will contribute or start.

Example

we do the trade from what I have seen
Swap from 1 to 5
their 18th
their 2 and 3
and possibly 1-2 more 1st the next two years

that gives us picks
5, 18, 33, 39, 65 and 70

SIX picks in the top 70, this year...even if 2 (QB, OL, LB) are day one starters, one develops over time and one is significant on STs or such then that is a success,  that is getting 4 quality players out of the draft over time (hopefully)

compared to staying pat...
1 pick in each of the 1st 3 rounds.
Burrow will start
33rd- hopefully a day one starter (OL, LB)
65th- who knows???

Sorry, I just can't get not trading out of this pick out of my mind.  It would have to be something similar to the above to do it.

"unfortunately after 40 years of watching this team I just do not see it happening.


I also would not be unhappy if they traded the pick for 3-4 1st rounders and a few more 2-3 rounders and drafted someone like Herbert or Eason alter on.  "

Same goes for trading Burrows for a huge draft haul.  Bengals haven't done it when they could have and I don't see MB wanting so many rookies on scale at the same time.  That would mean up to 7 high pick rookies coming off contract at the same time and potentially a few of them getting big bites of the salary cap at the same time.  MB doesn't operate that way.  For that reason I can't see a trade.
What I could see happening if they don't like Burrows as you don't is taking someone else, a trade down to number 2 or number 3.  

(01-23-2020, 07:50 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Reports are coming in that Miami is willing to trade all 3 first round draft picks for Burrow. The Bengals need to highly consider it. They could pick another QB, lineman, and receiver. ESPN used the Hershel Walker deal as an example that made the Cowboys great because they got lots of good players in return. Remember, Burrow has not proven himself in the NFL yet. I would not be opposed to taking Tua instead. We know one thing. Mike Brown will screw it up somehow.

Unlike Burrow  Tua I think would pull an Eli/Elway on us.

(02-04-2020, 05:26 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: "unfortunately after 40 years of watching this team I just do not see it happening.


I also would not be unhappy if they traded the pick for 3-4 1st rounders and a few more 2-3 rounders and drafted someone like Herbert or Eason alter on.  "

Same goes for trading Burrows for a huge draft haul.  Bengals haven't done it when they could have and I don't see MB wanting so many rookies on scale at the same time.  That would mean up to 7 high pick rookies coming off contract at the same time and potentially a few of them getting big bites of the salary cap at the same time.  MB doesn't operate that way.  For that reason I can't see a trade.
What I could see happening if they don't like Burrows as you don't is taking someone else, a trade down to number 2 or number 3.  

Mike Brown did not like having huge rookie salaries on the old CBA, with huge signing bonuses.....  Not so much anymore...

as far as the future?

the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders would be 1 to 2 years apart from each other....1st rounder 4 years, 5th year option, 2 and 3 3 or 4 years

(02-03-2020, 11:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Need to give Burrow some weapons for sure man. Our guys we currently have are very injury prone.

There is absolutely no reason to not bring in weapons with the CBA expiring, us needing to trade Dalton and other players 
honestly. Take care of the Line, so Burrow has time and get some good Linebackers in here and all is good IMO.

Every player can be a bust, even Burrow but I find it hard to see him being a bust unless he has freak injuries.

I agree with you on most things, but I don't see a huge need to bring in more skill players. For years we have tried to build our team from the outside in. Grabbing TO and Bryant the year we tanked. Etc. It sells tickets, but you win games up front. We need to start building from the trenches outwards like the 9ers in my opinion. The priority should be on the offensive line, and front 7 on defense. That's where we have the most room for improvement IMO. 

Considering the draft is so heavy on wideouts, I would still draft a wideout if one falls to us as the BPA, though. I just wouldn't spend on a Free Agent WR other than AJ, though. Just my opinion. I seem to be in the minority in thinking AJ has several years left in the tank. I get that Ross is injury prone, but we have depth behind him. I really don't see much more room other than maybe one more wideout this year. 

I think our skill positions are our biggest strength. I think if our offensive line were better we would see our skill players playing quite well.

To the OP, I think Mixon is one of our best players, and I would like for us to pay him to stick around.

I'd like to see us bring in offensive line help in FA and the draft, and continue to develop a legit offensive line. If we can build a legit offensive line, I feel like Burrow would have all the weapons to succeed. 

Oops, thought I was commenting on the Mixon thread.

(02-04-2020, 05:19 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Because he is not elite....He had one phenomenal season.....he weighs 215 pounds at 6' 3"....he does not possess elite arm strength...He is though a very smart and accurate thrower ala Peyton Manning.... That is saying a lot though, comparing him to manning but that is what I see with him but can he overcome being sacked 50-60 times a year like Manning did the first few years.. Will his brains outshine his lack of arm strength in certain situations?  

It is not hard to comprehend because there are certain aspects about him that are not elite.

Luck was elite...Go back and look at draft reports and stats from as far back as his sophomore year.  One of the best prospects in 20 years, a definitive number one overall draft pick.  No OL and got killed by it and having to run the ball.  Mediocre NFL stats and 6 year career.  All of this to a stud of a QB, probably 10 times the prospect that Joe Burrow is.


I am not going to be mad and have resigned to the fact that the Burrow will be the pick.  I just do not see what everyone else does.  I do not see a prototypical number one overall QB.  I hope he comes here and the Bengals magically make some moves and we have a majestic OL and he is the rookie of the year.  unfortunately after 40 years of watching this team I just do not see it happening.

I also would not be unhappy if they traded the pick for 3-4 1st rounders and a few more 2-3 rounders and drafted someone like Herbert or Eason alter on.  

Here is the thing for me...The Bengals have come straight out over the years and told everyone that they build through the draft and are not players early in FA.  This means that if you have more picks and bust on half you still can get a few out of the picks that will contribute or start.

Example

we do the trade from what I have seen
Swap from 1 to 5
their 18th
their 2 and 3
and possibly 1-2 more 1st the next two years

that gives us picks
5, 18, 33, 39, 65 and 70

SIX picks in the top 70, this year...even if 2 (QB, OL, LB) are day one starters, one develops over time and one is significant on STs or such then that is a success,  that is getting 4 quality players out of the draft over time (hopefully)

compared to staying pat...
1 pick in each of the 1st 3 rounds.
Burrow will start
33rd- hopefully a day one starter (OL, LB)
65th- who knows???

Sorry, I just can't get not trading out of this pick out of my mind.  It would have to be something similar to the above to do it.

Well I disagree obviously, I definitely saw an elite QB playing last season at LSU.

Best season of all time for a QB in college and you say he is not elite? Come on. His accuracy, smarts, pocket awareness
are all elite traits. There is no one even close in this Draft and Burrow outplayed Lawrence in the big game handily and 
Lawrence is considered an elite prospect.

(02-04-2020, 06:21 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I agree with you on most things, but I don't see a huge need to bring in more skill players. For years we have tried to build our team from the outside in. Grabbing TO and Bryant the year we tanked. Etc. It sells tickets, but you win games up front. We need to start building from the trenches outwards like the 9ers in my opinion. The priority should be on the offensive line, and front 7 on defense. That's where we have the most room for improvement IMO. 

Considering the draft is so heavy on wideouts, I would still draft a wideout if one falls to us as the BPA, though. I just wouldn't spend on a Free Agent WR other than AJ, though. Just my opinion. I seem to be in the minority in thinking AJ has several years left in the tank. I get that Ross is injury prone, but we have depth behind him. I really don't see much more room other than maybe one more wideout this year. 

I think our skill positions are our biggest strength. I think if our offensive line were better we would see our skill players playing quite well.

Hey, IF AJ, Ross and Eifert stay healthy I agree that we don't need more skill players but that is a big IF.

(02-04-2020, 06:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well I disagree obviously, I definitely saw an elite QB playing last season at LSU.

Best season of all time for a QB in college and you say he is not elite? Come on. His accuracy, smarts, pocket awareness
are all elite traits. There is no one even close in this Draft and Burrow outplayed Lawrence in the big game handily and 
Lawrence is considered an elite prospect.



Hey, IF AJ, Ross and Eifert stay healthy I agree that we don't need more skill players but that is a big IF.

Rome wasn't built in a day.  Get Burrows then build him his Praetorian Guard(oline) in year 1.
Year two go get deep pass catchers to go along with Mixon and Bernard.  

LOL at Burrow “not being elite.” He just had the best college season of any QB ever, and completely schooled the guy everyone was fawning all over in Lawrence.

Also, he’s 6”4, not 6”3.

(02-04-2020, 07:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: LOL at Burrow “not being elite.” He just had the best college season of any QB ever, and completely schooled the guy everyone was fawning all over in Lawrence.

Also, he’s 6”4, not 6”3.

All true. There hasn't been a QB with this many elite traits in a long time to come out.

Don't know what Spazz is talking about. Yeah, knew he was 6'4", thought everyone did.

Why is Miami so desperate to trade all their picks for this guy if he isn't "elite"?

There are players who are so compelling, you can NOT walk away from. Burrow is such a player. Lol at all those looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Miami's roster ain't that great, either. I doubt it is much better than ours.
And they're willing to part with multiple high picks to het this guy. That should tell you something.

(02-04-2020, 07:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true. There hasn't been a QB with this many elite traits in a long time to come out.

Don't know what Spazz is talking about. Yeah, knew he was 6'4", thought everyone did.

Why is Miami so desperate to trade all their picks for this guy if he isn't "elite"?

Elite traits...YES...I stated them above....for ONE year...before this year even back to OSU he was not ELITE, not even close...average or just above at LSU and riding the pine at OSU....I do not trust a one year wonder player that had a new OC and scheme

215 at 6' 4" is worse...

Maybe Miami has the same outlook that you do and see ELITE...I do not, IMHO

Again, I hope he comes in here and sets the world on fire and is our QB for 15 years and wins several SBs....WHODEY!!

(02-04-2020, 09:11 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Elite traits...YES...I stated them above....for ONE year...before this year even back to OSU he was not ELITE, not even close...average or just above at LSU and riding the pine at OSU....I do not trust a one year wonder player that had a new OC and scheme

215 at 6' 4" is worse...

Maybe Miami has the same outlook that you do and see ELITE...I do not, IMHO

Again, I hope he comes in here and sets the world on fire and is our QB for 15 years and wins several SBs....WHODEY!!

He didn’t get a new OC. Joe Brady was just the passing game coordinator. Steve Ensminger is the LSU OC, and he’s been there for years (OC since 2018).

Ed Orgeron straight up said the biggest reason for Burrow’s break out year was basically because he opened up the playbook and handed Joe the keys. You can only do that if you have a guy capable enough.

(02-04-2020, 07:39 PM)SladeX Wrote: There are players who are so compelling, you can NOT walk away from. Burrow is such a player. Lol at all those looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Miami's roster ain't that great, either. I doubt it is much better than ours.
And they're willing to part with multiple high picks to het this guy. That should tell you something.

Couldn't agree more SladeX.  

(02-04-2020, 09:11 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Elite traits...YES...I stated them above....for ONE year...before this year even back to OSU he was not ELITE, not even close...average or just above at LSU and riding the pine at OSU....I do not trust a one year wonder player that had a new OC and scheme

215 at 6' 4" is worse...

Maybe Miami has the same outlook that you do and see ELITE...I do not, IMHO

Again, I hope he comes in here and sets the world on fire and is our QB for 15 years and wins several SBs....WHODEY!!

How is being 6'4" worse than being 6'3"? He can see over the O-line like Brady and taller QB's can and he is in great shape
and can run instead of being a statue in the pocket. I just don't understand your arguments against Burrow at all.

Yeah, we get the best QB in the Draft and there is no question who that is...

WHODEY!!!

Lets Draft Joe Burrow and win some SB's!!!

(02-04-2020, 09:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He didn’t get a new OC. Joe Brady was just the passing game coordinator. Steve Ensminger is the LSU OC, and he’s been there for years (OC since 2018).

Ed Orgeron straight up said the biggest reason for Burrow’s break out year was he basically because he opened up the playbook and handed Joe the keys. You can only do that if you have a guy capable enough.

Thank you Nicomo.

(02-04-2020, 09:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He didn’t get a new OC. Joe Brady was just the passing game coordinator. Steve Ensminger is the LSU OC, and he’s been there for years (OC since 2018).

Ed Orgeron straight up said the biggest reason for Burrow’s break out year was basically because he opened up the playbook and handed Joe the keys. You can only do that if you have a guy capable enough.

After playing with some modern styles of offense in 2018, LSU brought in an offensive assistant from the New Orleans Saints named Joe Brady. Working alongside offensive coordinator Steve Ensminger, LSU moved to a spread offense that took advantage of their skill players, putting them in a position to succeed. Utilizing their running backs in the passing game, moving their receivers around to get favorable matchups, while using an uptick in play-action.


I have read this same exact or close to statement on several sites...they did not "hand Joe the playbook"....there was an entirely new system put in place, brought in by Brady from New Orleans...Again, I am not bashing Burrow...I just do not think that Burrow improved solely on his physical traits and overall abilities....I think that this system fit him perfectly and it was a perfect storm......For example, if it happens, let's look back on this and see how good of a year Tom Brady has if he leaves New England ( I don't think it will be very good and he will retire)  It is called a "system" and any QB with some physical gifts will succeed in that system.

(02-04-2020, 10:37 PM)spazz70 Wrote: After playing with some modern styles of offense in 2018, LSU brought in an offensive assistant from the New Orleans Saints named Joe Brady. Working alongside offensive coordinator Steve Ensminger, LSU moved to a spread offense that took advantage of their skill players, putting them in a position to succeed. Utilizing their running backs in the passing game, moving their receivers around to get favorable matchups, while using an uptick in play-action.


I have read this same exact or close to statement on several sites...they did not "hand Joe the playbook"....there was an entirely new system put in place, brought in by Brady from New Orleans...Again, I am not bashing Burrow...I just do not think that Burrow improved solely on his physical traits and overall abilities....I think that this system fit him perfectly and it was a perfect storm......For example, if it happens, let's look back on this and see how good of a year Tom Brady has if he leaves New England ( I don't think it will be very good and he will retire)  It is called a "system" and any QB with some physical gifts will succeed in that system.

Ok lol he literally said that in the on field interview right after winning the national championship.

And they wouldn’t have made the change if they didn’t think they had the right QB to run the more pro system.

You pretty much have to bend over backwards to try to justify not being hyped about this kid.

But if Joe Brady is truly the greatest thing since sliced bread it won’t matter who’s playing QB in Carolina next season right? Whoever it is will certainly be in the MVP race and set a bunch of records...

(02-04-2020, 11:04 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Ok lol he literally said that in the on field interview right after winning the national championship.

And they wouldn’t have made the change if they didn’t think they had the right QB to run the more pro system.

You pretty much have to bend over backwards to try to justify not being hyped about this kid.

Here is the interview...he doesn't say jack shit about "handing it over to Joe" or anything close...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqqt97BhJUU

Here is an interview later that night talking about "changing over to a spread offense and loved having Joe there to run it"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jx3umKIdBk

They changed FROM a PRO STYLE to a modern spread (just now catching on in the NFL the last few years)...Again, not trashing Burrow or anything....He is a talented guy and  hope he lights the NFL on fire...I just don't know how he is going to do it under this ownership and this offense and offensive line.......Prove me wrong Joe!!

(02-04-2020, 11:24 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Here is the interview...he doesn't say jack shit about "handing it over to Joe" or anything close...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqqt97BhJUU

Here is an interview later that night talking about "changing over to a spread offense and loved having Joe there to run it"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jx3umKIdBk

They changed FROM a PRO STYLE to a modern spread (just now catching on in the NFL the last few years)...Again, not trashing Burrow or anything....He is a talented guy and  hope he lights the NFL on fire...I just don't know how he is going to do it under this ownership and this offense and offensive line.......Prove me wrong Joe!!

Yes you are. There’s literally nothing the kid didn’t accomplish and a very few are still sitting here with their not impressed faces on talking about “one year wonder “ trading the pick, etc.

I will never understand people.