(02-05-2020, 09:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm intrigued, what makes you think Burrow doesn't want to be here ? And what makes you think Herbert or Love would want to be here ?

The Dan Patrick interview definitely had "Bungel" undertones. He never came right out and said, " Man, I hope they do take me! I can't wait to accept the challenge of bringing a winner to Cincy".

It's a much different tone than the one he's been using since his transfer to LSU. There, he was outspoken and confident in his ability to get them to the top.

I think Love in particular will have a chip on his shoulder n the NFL. He has been compared to Mahomes, as far as skill set. Herbert just went 6-6 passing with a 19 yard run in his first drive of the Senior Bowl under the Bengals coaching staff.

(02-05-2020, 08:10 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: The ""haul" would most likely be two outstanding blockers, or an outstanding blocker, a first round linebacker, and a franchise QB!! 

Those benefits outweigh what one player can bring to the team. It's ok, I don't expect you to see things objectively. You only seem to view this through your subjective lense.

LOL

So it’s more likely that multiple picks we acquire all turn out to be outstanding, than it is Joe Burrow becoming a top QB?

The team that has used our recent 1st rounds picks on the likes of Ogbuehi, Price, Ross, WJ3, and an injured Jonah Williams is suddenly going to hit on multiple players just like that?

Do you see how that doesn’t make sense to most of us? And even if they do make some good picks they do not necessarily outweigh one player if that player turns out to be a Pat Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, type QB.

You could offer KC any “haul” you can dream up right now and they’d die laughing before they hung up the phone.

(02-05-2020, 09:57 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: So, the question seems to be - do you pass on a potentially elite/franchise QB because other teams have won without elite QB's?

Just my opinion, but in my mind, you wouldn't pass on Peyton Manning (for example) just because Dilfer once won a SB. If a guy is there for the taking that you believe can be great, why not take advantage of that opportunity and build around him?

I feel you Holic, and you're not wrong. I just hope they get the kid some help. He's going to need it!

(02-05-2020, 10:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: LOL

So it’s more likely that multiple picks we acquire all turn out to be outstanding, than it is Joe Burrow becoming a top QB?

The team that has used our recent 1st rounds picks on the likes of Ogbuehi, Price, Ross, WJ3, and an injured Jonah Williams is suddenly going to hit on multiple players just like that?

Do you see how that doesn’t make sense to most of us? And even if they do make some good picks they do not necessarily outweigh one player if that player turns out to be a Pat Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, type QB.

You could offer KC any “haul” you can dream up right now and they’d die laughing before they hung up the phone.

You're preaching to the choir about Mahomes. I already covered that in another post. 

Mahomes got drafted by a team that was coming off of a 12-4 season, not a 2-14 one with a Swiss cheese oline.

(02-05-2020, 04:40 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: You're forgetting they sucked the year Jimmy was hurt and that's why they had the #2 pick 

Nah, I remember....but look who they played at QB in his absence. I think there were a couple other injuries too. Look, I'm not trashing the guy, but he's not a "great QB".

(02-05-2020, 01:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was well above average this season. Hair under 4K Yds, 27 TD to 13 INT, 102 rating. They won 5 straight games after trading for him a couple years ago. The difference he’s made out there shouldn’t be downplayed.

Under 4k is a "franchise QB" now? Hell, we just ran better than that out of town!

Great play in the trenches with a serviceable QB running the show shouldn't be downplayed either.  I mean, I get it, in the era of Madden and FF, line play ain't sexy, but it's still central to winning football. It's fundamental to the game. Always has been, always will be. Had the 9ers won, it would have been like Brad Johnson or Jeff Hostetler winning it all.

Interesting opinions. Somewhere around 1:15 in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t-wwU0yaGg

(02-05-2020, 10:41 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: You're preaching to the choir about Mahomes. I already covered that in another post. 

Mahomes got drafted by a team that was coming off of a 12-4 season, not a 2-14 one with a Swiss cheese oline.

Yes, KC was stuck in mediocrity just like us during the Dalton era. Everything changed the day they drafted Patrick Mahomes.

And let’s not pretend they have some elite OL. Mahomes was sacked 3x in the Super Bowl and pressured A TON. And it was working for 3 1/2 quarters too, but truly special players find ways to overcome. Which he did late in the 4th quarter.

I don't understand why anyone wants this franchise and particularly this coaching staff to have more early round picks over the #1 overall pick.

We don't need 4 Drew Samples. Take the for sure thing in Joe Burrow.

(02-05-2020, 10:57 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Under 4k is a "franchise QB" now? Hell, we just ran better than that out of town!

Great play in the trenches with a serviceable QB running the show shouldn't be downplayed either.  I mean, I get it, in the era of Madden and FF, line play ain't sexy, but it's still central to winning football. It's fundamental to the game. Always has been, always will be. Had the 9ers won, it would have been like Brad Johnson or Jeff Hostetler winning it all.

The 9ers didn’t win though, despite their dominant trenches.

And honestly Wyche, I like you, but I find this post a little condescending tbh. Literally no one is suggesting good OL play doesn’t make a difference, but it’s also not the end all be all some on this board (yourself included) make it out to be.

Eric Fisher was getting beat like a drum in the Super Bowl. KC’s center is barely rated above Trey Hopkins...

The main reason they won was their elite QB made the plays he had to late in the 4th quarter.

(01-23-2020, 07:50 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Reports are coming in that Miami is willing to trade all 3 first round draft picks for Burrow. The Bengals need to highly consider it. They could pick another QB, lineman, and receiver. ESPN used the Hershel Walker deal as an example that made the Cowboys great because they got lots of good players in return. Remember, Burrow has not proven himself in the NFL yet. I would not be opposed to taking Tua instead. We know one thing. Mike Brown will screw it up somehow.

Actually this trade idea will screw it up. You can't find top of the line generational QB's in Free Agency. You can find every other position in Free Agency. You need to think Why Miami wants him so bad. Maybe we should be thinking the same thing.

(02-05-2020, 11:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I don't understand why anyone wants this franchise and particularly this coaching staff to have more early round picks over the #1 overall pick.

We don't need 4 Drew Samples. Take the for sure thing in Joe Burrow.

This is exactly right. Take the sure thing. 

It is like the game show "Who wants to be a millionaire" If you don't know the answer you can ask the audience. The answer comes back 98% of the audience says this answer. Trust what 98% of the people want. Do not over think this. If the Bengals pick Burrow and he is a bust that is too bad but they can live with everyone wanted him. If they trade him and he becomes the next Tom Brady that would be the most Bengal like thing ever!

the browns had the players to head to the playoff talent wise then hired Kitchens instead of hiring their interim coach that got them their wins last season.

I don't have any confidence with our current coaches. Marvin and his coaching staff were mostly average to above average. His last season he was below average coaching staff wise.

Burrow will get us there, but our coaches will keep us mediocre.

Oh c'mon..Bengals are gonna win every single game until Burrow retires as a Bengal..
I guess that means he'll retire before September.

(02-05-2020, 10:55 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Nah, I remember....but look who they played at QB in his absence. I think there were a couple other injuries too. Look, I'm not trashing the guy, but he's not a "great QB".

They also didn't have Nick Bosa and a couple other FA signings on D in 2018 either. Not to mention there was no Deebo, Tevin Coleman, or Emanuel Sanders. The 49ers had an infusion of new blood this past off-season. That team gave us a reality check thrashing last year in week 2.

I agree... Jimmy G isn't a scrub, but he's not great either. The overthrow to Sanders in the 4th the other night was awful.

(02-05-2020, 11:15 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I don't understand why anyone wants this franchise and particularly this coaching staff to have more early round picks over the #1 overall pick.

We don't need 4 Drew Samples. Take the for sure thing in Joe Burrow.

(02-06-2020, 12:00 AM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: This is exactly right. Take the sure thing. 

It is like the game show "Who wants to be a millionaire" If you don't know the answer you can ask the audience. The answer comes back 98% of the audience says this answer. Trust what 98% of the people want. Do not over think this. If the Bengals pick Burrow and he is a bust that is too bad but they can live with everyone wanted him. If they trade him and he becomes the next Tom Brady that would be the most Bengal like thing ever!

What makes everyone so certain this guy is a sure thing??

I just don't get that at all. He was viewed as a 4th round prospect, had an great season that resulted in the coach that came in and changed things up there getting hired as an NFL O-coordinator.

I've seen people mention him like he is Luck or Manning, and he is not.

Manning was a 4 year starter for Tenn who was a first round draft prospect as a Freshman.

Luck, Red shirted his freshman year, then 3 year starter for Stanford, also never looked at as less then a 1st round prospect.

I get it, he had an amazing season, but there is a lot of one year wonders in the world that are exactly that, one year. The system and player match up and things go perfect. Can that continue? Especially when you remove the system.

(02-06-2020, 01:52 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What makes everyone so certain this guy is a sure thing??

I just don't get that at all. He was viewed as a 4th round prospect, had an great season that resulted in the coach that came in and changed things up there getting hired as an NFL O-coordinator.

I've seen people mention him like he is Luck or Manning, and he is not.

Manning was a 4 year starter for Tenn who was a first round draft prospect as a Freshman.

Luck, Red shirted his freshman year, then 3 year starter for Stanford, also never looked at as less then a 1st round prospect.

I get it, he had an amazing season, but there is a lot of one year wonders in the world that are exactly that, one year. The system and player match up and things go perfect. Can that continue? Especially when you remove the system.

You make a great point. Let us not forget the last GREAT LSU QB, JaMarcus Russell. I think Burrow is going to be a good NFL QB, but you just never can tell.

(02-06-2020, 01:20 AM)jason Wrote: They also didn't have Nick Bosa and a couple other FA signings on D in 2018 either. Not to mention there was no Deebo, Tevin Coleman, or Emanuel Sanders. The 49ers had an infusion of new blood this past off-season. That team gave us a reality check thrashing last year in week 2.

I agree... Jimmy G isn't a scrub, but he's not great either. The overthrow to Sanders in the 4th the other night was awful.

Exactly, it's like some people think QB is the only position on the field. The 9ers made some power plays to improve, and hit on some draft picks. Jimmy compliments the moves they made. 

(02-05-2020, 11:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The 9ers didn’t win though, despite their dominant trenches.

And honestly Wyche, I like you, but I find this post a little condescending tbh. Literally no one is suggesting good OL play doesn’t make a difference, but it’s also not the end all be all some on this board (yourself included) make it out to be.

Eric Fisher was getting beat like a drum in the Super Bowl. KC’s center is barely rated above Trey Hopkins...

The main reason they won was their elite QB made the plays he had to late in the 4th quarter.

Well, I apologize to you for coming off that way, I value our discussions. So please forgive me for that, it wasn't my intention.

That said, Jimmy is not Pat Mahommes, and he's who we were talking about. A guy like Mahommes CAN make a lot of things happen on his own. Jimmy, not so much. That was my point, and has been my point about OUR team. If you have a transcendent type talent at QB, you don't necessarily need great protection. Those types are very rare. If you don't, you protect the QB.  KC also has excellent talent catching the ball, and they help their QB by breaking off routes and coming back to the ball. They get a lot of YAC too. I mean, Hill, Watkins, and Kelce with Mahommes? Murderers Row! 

Speaking of the Super Bowl, that 9ers D even forced the great Pat Mahommes into 2 INTs, and a not so great first 3 quarters. Winning the trenches is tantamount to a team's success. Lately, the Bengals have not been doing that.

(02-06-2020, 10:15 AM)Wyche Wrote: Well, I apologize to you for coming off that way, I value our discussions. So please forgive me for that, it wasn't my intention.

That said, Jimmy is not Pat Mahommes, and he's who we were talking about. A guy like Mahommes CAN make a lot of things happen on his own. Jimmy, not so much. That was my point, and has been my point about OUR team. If you have a transcendent type talent at QB, you don't necessarily need great protection. Those types are very rare. If you don't, you protect the QB.  KC also has excellent talent catching the ball, and they help their QB by breaking off routes and coming back to the ball. They get a lot of YAC too. I mean, Hill, Watkins, and Kelce with Mahommes? Murderers Row! 

Speaking of the Super Bowl, that 9ers D even forced the great Pat Mahommes into 2 INTs, and a not so great first 3 quarters. Winning the trenches is tantamount to a team's success. Lately, the Bengals have not been doing that.

Yup 

Burrow, checks all the boxes, looks for everyone who really watches to be the real deal and you just can't say enough good about him. But even him having 3.3 seconds to throw compared to 2.6 is a gigantic difference !