(03-25-2020, 07:26 PM)J24 Wrote: Exactly we need to be able to defend the pass on first and second down so we do not end up in third & shorts on a frequent basis. 
Look I like that there going out and signing guys that are from a different places but none of the signings except for Reader over Billings have been major improvements.
Wayne's + Alexander is a push against Kirkpatrick + Dennard
Fuia is a push against Miller
 Bell is a push against Williams
Bynes is a great run defender but Baltimore hid him in the passing game. In all honesty I think Vigil is the better fit in today's NFL but I say this thinking neither is a starting LB. More a guy off the bench.

So, J24, I wonder what your previous comments were pertaining to Free Agency and the Bengals? Did you say they needed to go out and sign players or not? Your assessments of the players just aren't accurate at all. Every player the Bengals signed are young, in their primes, and graded well over the years, (specifically with Tackling somebody) in PFF or other grading sites.
AND, every player they signed come from successful franchises with playoff experiences.

Reader-Texans---#1 run stuffer according to PFF
Waynes + Alexander---Minnesota---two of the best tackling CB's on the market
Xavier---Dallas---Zeke's rushing stats were better with him in there instead of Connor Williams before he fractured his leg.
Bell---Saints---#1 rated Safety left in FA
Bynes-Baltimore (Need I say anything else). Bynes was graded between 70-80 last 3 years, Vigil was graded at 58 last year according to PFF. Did you watch the same games as everyone else last year??? Vigil missed more tackles against Lamar Jackson in one game than he made all year long!

You've probably figured out I only focused on their Tackling grades. This again is b/c the Bengals Defense was the worst tackling team in the NFL last year. And now up to 10 of those players won't be on the roster any longer. Good Riddance!!!

(03-25-2020, 07:02 PM)J24 Wrote: There both similar players but William has been more consistent over his career. It's either a slight upgrade or downgrade. This deal doesn't make the Defense that much better. 

No he hasn't, where is your proof of Shawn being better than Vonn?

This deal makes us better for sure at stopping the run, tackling, taking angles and speed to the edges.

And Vonn Bell is just as good in pass coverage if not better and is younger.

(03-25-2020, 07:17 PM)jj22 Wrote: Our pass defense is solid with Williams and Bates roaming deep. WJIII (ideally) and Phillips on the outside, and Dunlap, Hubbard, and Lawson coming off the edge.

We need another edge player which is why if Baun is there at 33 he checks two boxes as lb and pass rusher. Run defense and tackling was the priority outside of a linebacker who could cover TE'S.

These are some interesting signings but they seem to be focused.

We better hope the signings work or we may never see a FA like this for another generation.

Agreed, lets follow up FA with a great Draft and our coaches actually looking like they know what they are doing this year.

Baun is also who I would love if Murray isn't there, he is my second favorite LB in this Draft behind Murray.

I wouldn't mind Queen after if he fell.

(03-25-2020, 07:25 PM)Mobster Wrote: Nope. Bell is a young ascending player who is only getting better. Williams has already played his best ball.

 

(03-25-2020, 07:25 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I am stunned by this off season. It is a new way of thinking finally.

Had I known they would be this active I wouldn't have been so against drafting Burrow.

Was for Burrow regardless but this sure makes us all more confident in this team including Burrow...

(03-25-2020, 08:36 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I do not know how some fans see this as a "push" or negative signing.  Bell will become the "star" DB hybrid or Williams will be.  They still need two backers, and at least two OL in the upcoming draft.  What this signing will do is open the draft at #33.  

If McKinney is there, teams will offer trades for #33 pick.  It would not surprise me at all if the Bengals go for Ruiz (C/G) in round two and backer in Gay/ADG in round 3 and grab Muse or Dugger later to play backer.  

Bell had a down year in 2019 compared to 2018 but that is because they played in deep in over 500 snaps.  He can blitz, stop the run and is a leader.

I was all for Delpit before this pick as you know Psych, this pick up makes me think otherwise and opens it all up like you said.

Also if Love or Eason are there at 33 teams that want a QB for the future should be offering trades.

Would love Ruiz in 2 and ADG in 3.

Spot on about Bell.

(03-25-2020, 08:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: These are PFF ratings, so take them with a grain of salt, but by comparison...

Dennard 72.2 vs Alexander 65.7= -6.5

WJIII 53.6 vs Waynes 65.1= +11.5

Williams 54.4 vs Bell 64.8= +10.4

Vigil 54.4 vs Bynes 76.2= +21.8

Billings 69.3 vs Reader 86.7= +17.4

Miller 58.6 vs XSF 60.1 = +1.5

The only real lateral move that was made was at RG.  While most are assuming Waynes is Dre's replacement, WJIII is in a contract year and has basically been a one year wonder.  He is not good.  He hasn't been good for years.  

Still hoping Will Jax can turn it around. At least I have hope for him unlike Dre.

(03-25-2020, 04:27 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: If the Bengals aren't careful, the media may call them the "Winners" of Free Agency. Yikes! We all know how that worked out for Cleveland last year. Lmao
Although, 7-9 sounds much better than 2-14. Lol

As long as they get their QB.

(03-25-2020, 09:00 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: So, J24, I wonder what your previous comments were pertaining to Free Agency and the Bengals? Did you say they needed to go out and sign players or not? Your assessments of the players just aren't accurate at all. Every player the Bengals signed are young, in their primes, and graded well over the years, (specifically with Tackling somebody) in PFF or other grading sites.
AND, every player they signed come from successful franchises with playoff experiences.

Reader-Texans---#1 run stuffer according to PFF
Waynes + Alexander---Minnesota---two of the best tackling CB's on the market
Xavier---Dallas---Zeke's rushing stats were better with him in there instead of Connor Williams before he fractured his leg.
Bell---Saints---#1 rated Safety left in FA
Bynes-Baltimore (Need I say anything else). Bynes was graded between 70-80 last 3 years, Vigil was graded at 58 last year according to PFF. Did you watch the same games as everyone else last year??? Vigil missed more tackles against Lamar Jackson in one game than he made all year long!

You've probably figured out I only focused on their Tackling grades. This again is b/c the Bengals Defense was the worst tackling team in the NFL last year. And now up to 10 of those players won't be on the roster any longer. Good Riddance!!!

Great post Jersey.

(03-25-2020, 08:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: These are PFF ratings, so take them with a grain of salt, but by comparison...

Dennard 72.2 vs Alexander 65.7= -6.5

WJIII 53.6 vs Waynes 65.1= +11.5

Williams 54.4 vs Bell 64.8= +10.4

Vigil 54.4 vs Bynes 76.2= +21.8

Billings 69.3 vs Reader 86.7= +17.4

Miller 58.6 vs XSF 60.1 = +1.5

The only real lateral move that was made was at RG.  While most are assuming Waynes is Dre's replacement, WJIII is in a contract year and has basically been a one year wonder.  He is not good.  He hasn't been good for years. 

Great post Whatever!

Although, even though you're thinking is it's WJIII, it really is Dre and his PFF grade.
Dre will be off the team and WJIII will be starting opposite of Waynes.
I'm anxious to know what Dre's PFF grade was last year as opposed to Waynes?
So far, they're close to +60 in grades for the additions. I'll take it! Lol

(03-25-2020, 09:35 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Great post Whatever!

Although, even though you're thinking is it's WJIII, it really is Dre and his PFF grade.
Dre will be off the team and WJIII will be starting opposite of Waynes.
I'm anxious to know what Dre's PFF grade was last year as opposed to Waynes?
So far, they're close to +60 in grades for the additions. I'll take it! Lol

I am interested in if Whatever is biased against Will Jax after that post honestly. I forgot if he does like him or not.

Seems he has soured on WJ3 as lots of us have but the point is still who is better and younger of the two with bigger upside.

Great signing.

(03-25-2020, 09:35 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: Great post Whatever!

Although, even though you're thinking is it's WJIII, it really is Dre and his PFF grade.
Dre will be off the team and WJIII will be starting opposite of Waynes.
I'm anxious to know what Dre's PFF grade was last year as opposed to Waynes?
So far, they're close to +60 in grades for the additions. I'll take it! Lol

Dre had a respectable 61.7 PFF grade last year.  Not great, but he graded much better than WJIII.  I wouldn't be surprised if WJIII is the one that eventually gets the axe.  He did nothing to impress the current staff, his youth and upside is negated by the fact that he's in a contract year, and they would actually save a bit more against the cap if they cut/traded him as opposed to Dre.  

Here's the grades for our top 6 CB's from last year...

Phillips 81.6
Dennard 72.2
Kirkpatrick 61.7
Webb 56.3
Jackson 53.6
McRae 47.6

(03-25-2020, 10:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: Dre had a respectable 61.7 PFF grade last year.  Not great, but he graded much better than WJIII.  I wouldn't be surprised if WJIII is the one that eventually gets the axe.  He did nothing to impress the current staff, his youth and upside is negated by the fact that he's in a contract year, and they would actually save a bit more against the cap if they cut/traded him as opposed to Dre.  

Here's the grades for our top 6 CB's from last year...

Phillips 81.6
Dennard 72.2
Kirkpatrick 61.7
Webb 56.3
Jackson 53.6
McRae 47.6

Bit unfair. Dre’s rating is only based off 6 games. WJ3 played in 14.

(03-25-2020, 10:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Bit unfair. Dre’s rating is only based off 6 games. WJ3 played in 14.

Agreed, more than a bit unfair.

(03-25-2020, 03:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Damn. I was really wanting Bell but didn't think it was a real possibility at this point. 

What an incredible off-season it's been. I think Zac and Duke deserve all the kudos they can get right now. Hell, even Mike deserves major props for allowing them to go out and kill it like this. 

But isnt that what an owner is supposed to do anyways. 
Still great job.. I like the signings 

Yes!!!!!
I wanted Bell 1st or 2nd Simmons (Denver franchised him).

Super wicked off season and we might not be totally done yet.

(03-25-2020, 08:49 PM)Whatever Wrote: These are PFF ratings, so take them with a grain of salt, but by comparison...

Dennard 72.2 vs Alexander 65.7= -6.5

WJIII 53.6 vs Waynes 65.1= +11.5

Williams 54.4 vs Bell 64.8= +10.4

Vigil 54.4 vs Bynes 76.2= +21.8

Billings 69.3 vs Reader 86.7= +17.4

Miller 58.6 vs XSF 60.1 = +1.5

The only real lateral move that was made was at RG.  While most are assuming Waynes is Dre's replacement, WJIII is in a contract year and has basically been a one year wonder.  He is not good.  He hasn't been good for years.  

You're making a judgement over one season?  You have to judge players based off more than one season. + Since when is PFF the only thing were judging a player on? For example let's look at Josh Bynes yes his numbers are superior to Vigil but they both played different roles. One was a sub package run stuffer(Bynes) the other was a 3 down LB. Will the Bengals be able to hide Bynes in pass situations like the Ravens did. Or will they use him like what they did with Preston Brown which ended up badly for all parties involved.

(03-25-2020, 09:00 PM)JerseyDD09 Wrote: So, J24, I wonder what your previous comments were pertaining to Free Agency and the Bengals? Did you say they needed to go out and sign players or not? Your assessments of the players just aren't accurate at all. Every player the Bengals signed are young, in their primes, and graded well over the years, (specifically with Tackling somebody) in PFF or other grading sites.
AND, every player they signed come from successful franchises with playoff experiences.

Reader-Texans---#1 run stuffer according to PFF
Waynes + Alexander---Minnesota---two of the best tackling CB's on the market
Xavier---Dallas---Zeke's rushing stats were better with him in there instead of Connor Williams before he fractured his leg.
Bell---Saints---#1 rated Safety left in FA
Bynes-Baltimore (Need I say anything else). Bynes was graded between 70-80 last 3 years, Vigil was graded at 58 last year according to PFF. Did you watch the same games as everyone else last year??? Vigil missed more tackles against Lamar Jackson in one game than he made all year long!

You've probably figured out I only focused on their Tackling grades. This again is b/c the Bengals Defense was the worst tackling team in the NFL last year. And now up to 10 of those players won't be on the roster any longer. Good Riddance!!!

1.) Yes we were active in free agency but where did we improve on the roster? Wayne's & Alexander are not improvements over Dennard or Kirkpatrick. Their not down grades but not improvements either.
2.) Neither CB, S, or NT were on anyone improvement list except for sunset on the nose tackle. Still the Bengals needed a RT to replace Hart they haven't signed one so far, they needed a 3 down LB haven't signed one so far, they needed a LG haven't signed one so far, and they needed a RG but yet only signed a guy who had a small stretch of success in his career who by the way has never played that position in the NFL so far.
So let me ask you this; how is not addressing the major issues on this team actually improving the team?  It's like fixing the sound system on a sinking boat ok that's nice and all but what about the giant hole in the center of the freaking boat. Can we get some flexy tape on this *****.

(03-25-2020, 09:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No he hasn't, where is your proof of Shawn being better than Vonn?

This deal makes us better for sure at stopping the run, tackling, taking angles and speed to the edges.

And Vonn Bell is just as good in pass coverage if not better and is younger.



Agreed, lets follow up FA with a great Draft and our coaches actually looking like they know what they are doing this year.

Baun is also who I would love if Murray isn't there, he is my second favorite LB in this Draft behind Murray.

I wouldn't mind Queen after if he fell.



 


Was for Burrow regardless but this sure makes us all more confident in this team including Burrow...



I was all for Delpit before this pick as you know Psych, this pick up makes me think otherwise and opens it all up like you said.

Also if Love or Eason are there at 33 teams that want a QB for the future should be offering trades.

Would love Ruiz in 2 and ADG in 3.

Spot on about Bell.



Still hoping Will Jax can turn it around. At least I have hope for him unlike Dre.

1.) Bell graded out as a 54 in pass coverage last season according to PFF.
2.)in there Careers Bell has given up 10 TDs to only 1 INT while Williams gave 12 TDs but also has 12 INTs. Which is better?
3.) Even if we Bell is better than Williams and Wayne's is better than Kirkpatrick the Margin isn't that significant at the position that we significantly upgraded the position to make the Defense that much better. 
However if we used the money that we used on Bell & Wayne on a guy like Corey Littleton or a Joe Schobert then we would have improved our biggest weakness on the team by a significant amount.

(03-25-2020, 09:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am interested in if Whatever is biased against Will Jax after that post honestly. I forgot if he does like him or not.

Seems he has soured on WJ3 as lots of us have but the point is still who is better and younger of the two with bigger upside.

Lol, no I don't have a bias against WJIII.  However, his play has plummeted dramatically since his stellar 2017 campaign. He's gone from elite, to good, to a liability.  The reality is that he may just not be a scheme fit for what they're trying to do.  He's also in the last year of his contract, while Dre is under contract through '21. 

My personal opinion is that unless they need the cap room for a major signing is let these guys settle it in camp. 

(03-25-2020, 10:53 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Bell graded out as a 54 in pass coverage last season according to PFF.
2.)in there Careers Bell has given up 10 TDs to only 1 INT while Williams gave 12 TDs but also has 12 INTs. Which is better?
3.) Even if we Bell is better than Williams and Wayne's is better than Kirkpatrick the Margin isn't that significant at the position that we significantly upgraded the position to make the Defense that much better. 
However if we used the money that we used on Bell & Wayne on a guy like Corey Littleton or a Joe Schobert then we would have improved our biggest weakness on the team by a significant amount.

Bell is better, he doesn't get the INTs that Shawn has gotten but he is still just as good in coverage and is a better tackler and 
doesn't just go for the big hits, he wraps up very well, takes better angles and is a WAY better blitzer. Like I said, I like Shawn 
but we needed to add another Nickle Backer and there wasn't a better one than Bell on the market and it is insurance in case 
Shawn is gone in a year. Vonn Bell is a very good run stopping Safety.

Littleton picked his team so it was out of the question and Schobert was overpaid.

If you REALLY wanted to overpay and not have Reader, Waynes, Alexander and Bell we could of gotten an overpaid Linebacker 
in Schobert that doesn't tackle very well. 

Good plan J24.

(03-25-2020, 10:53 PM)Whatever Wrote: Lol, no I don't have a bias against WJIII.  However, his play has plummeted dramatically since his stellar 2017 campaign. He's gone from elite, to good, to a liability.  The reality is that he may just not be a scheme fit for what they're trying to do.  He's also in the last year of his contract, while Dre is under contract through '21. 

My personal opinion is that unless they need the cap room for a major signing is let these guys settle it in camp. 

Alright, thought so. Nice post.

(03-25-2020, 04:34 PM)kalibengal Wrote: From what I can gather, its a perfect storm of a QB coming in on a rookie deal that frees up cash ,  letting new coach in 2nd yr do his thing, and we have to start thinking NFL players want to play with Joe Burrow....
what else explains it? 

The signing of Reader and then the Bengals names on several other big FAs is a signal. They want to win. 
Combine that with picking Burrow and Brady/Brees wont last much longer in the NFL the timing is Ripe for a New no 1 QB to take over the league. 

Quite a few of you need to eat some crow! I have been faithful all along that this off season they would give ZT what he wants in order to succeed.  Just like with Marvin. Last year was just to short and not enough time to focus on players and coaches and draft. 
I'm pretty stoked! 

(03-25-2020, 11:13 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The signing of Reader and then the Bengals names on several other big FAs is a signal. They want to win. 
Combine that with picking Burrow and Brady/Brees wont last much longer in the NFL the timing is Ripe for a New no 1 QB to take over the league. 

Quite a few of you need to eat some crow! I have been faithful all along that this off season they would give ZT what he wants in order to succeed.  Just like with Marvin. Last year was just to short and not enough time to focus on players and coaches and draft. 
I'm pretty stoked! 

Been with you all along, just didn't expect this many great moves ever!!!

I don’t know if Zac can coach but he makes a hellova GM.

(03-25-2020, 11:32 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I don’t know if Zac can coach but he makes a hellova GM.

Hopefully he either grows in the play calling department or hands over those duties to Brian Callahan so he can coach...