(03-28-2020, 03:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Except that plenty of us were bitching about him when he was the starter.  He tended to flash like he was going to develop into a force, then would be seemingly invisible for stretches of several games.

The numbers don't back that up at all and I would say that people especially on message boards have biases against certain players good or bad. Billings was bad his first season playing and people used that against him is whole time here. The numbers since haven't shown that at all though.

(03-28-2020, 03:55 PM)J24 Wrote: Or maybe they felt Reader was a superstar and Billings was there backup option if they didn't get Reader.

Fine.  Whatever.  I'm getting dizzy trying to keep up with the circular reasoning.  Here's hoping you don't fall down from all the reaching to make some kind of point.

(03-28-2020, 04:00 PM)McC Wrote: Are you really going to compare the going rate of a top NT to a slot corner?

Yeah you're right Nickel CB is much more valuable in todays NFL then nose tackle.

(03-28-2020, 04:02 PM)McC Wrote: Fine.  Whatever.  I'm getting dizzy trying to keep up with the circular reasoning.  Here's hoping you don't fall down from all the reaching to make some kind of point.

What? 

(03-28-2020, 04:01 PM)J24 Wrote: The numbers don't back that up at all and I would say that people especially on message boards have biases against certain players good or bad. Billings was bad his first season playing and people used that against him is whole time here. The numbers since haven't shown that at all though.

The numbers absolutely back up what I'm saying.  Here is a link to Billings lifetime stats.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BillAn00.htm

For comparison sake, here are Reader's stats.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReadD.00.htm

(03-28-2020, 06:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The numbers absolutely back up what I'm saying.  Here is a link to Billings lifetime stats.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BillAn00.htm

For comparison sake, here are Reader's stats.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/ReadD.00.htm

1.) Just because Reader is better than Billings doesn't mean Billings isn't good. Especially when you look at the price difference 13.5 vs 3.5 a year.I would say that Billings is an exceptional value
2.) These stats show that they were the same exact player in 2018. In fact Billings had more TFLs, more QB Hits, and more sacks( albeit was just a .5 sack difference).
3.) Can't wait to see Geno & Reader lineup

When you had the worst tackling defense in the NFL (and indeed possibly in NFL history) two years running and you go out and bring in five new starters all rated very highly in tackling and all younger and entering prime I think we can see the theme here. And we did not give up pass defense to get it as our new secondary players are basically as good as the ones they are replacing while being vastly superior at tackling and playing the run.

(03-29-2020, 12:14 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Just because Reader is better than Billings doesn't mean Billings isn't good. Especially when you look at the price difference 13.5 vs 3.5 a year.I would say that Billings is an exceptional value
2.) These stats show that they were the same exact player in 2018. In fact Billings had more TFLs, more QB Hits, and more sacks( albeit was just a .5 sack difference).
3.) Can't wait to see Geno & Reader lineup

Billings is "average", while Reader is a "really good" player.  Significant difference.

For the love of everything holy how did a thread about Vonn Bell signing here devolve into a Billings vs reader debate?


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(03-29-2020, 03:24 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: For the love of everything holy how did a thread about Vonn Bell signing here devolve into a Billings vs reader debate?


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Well, it was pretty easy, actually.  Bell and Reader are going to be playing on the same Bengals defense.

(03-29-2020, 03:24 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: For the love of everything holy how did a thread about Vonn Bell signing here devolve into a Billings vs reader debate?


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The same way it devolved into a "Drew Sample is a bust" thread a few pages ago.

(03-27-2020, 10:19 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I like Williams, and agree that he has good instincts for tracking the football. Ts, I recently read an article that showed his in the box numbers from last season,and they weren't very good.

Don't have a link...? May have been PFF? There are others on the board that are much better at posting analytics than I am. If I remember correctly, the article was debating the merits of moving Williams to LB? Then it went on to show that he didn't fair all that well inside last season.

Like you mentioned, he has a good nose for the ball. I've always liked him. Will be interesting to see how this plays out?

Yes you would think Shawn would be better in the box than he has been lately.

Vonn has clearly been better than him and is way younger, like I said, I like Shawn but he isn't as good as Vonn Bell.

Especially in tackling, but Shawn has the better nose for the ball.

I would like to keep both but this should be fun any way it plays out.