According to ProFootballOutsiders the top three players in the league in missed tackles were

Jesse Bates.........24
Nick Vigil............23
Shawn Williams...22

I have a saying.  "When a player stinks look at the player.  When ALL the players stink look at the coaching."  

Tackling is a basic skill that all of these guys learned in college.  I don't know how it could be blamed on the coaches unless these guys were missing tackles because they were out of position and not getting good clean tackle attempts.

Good lord. That is rather sad.

Easy training camps, not enough padded, tackling practices.

You play like you practice...

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(07-29-2020, 04:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to ProFootballOutsiders the top three players in the league in missed tackles were

Jesse Bates.........24
Nick Vigil............23
Shawn Williams...22

I have a saying.  "When a player stinks look at the player.  When ALL the players stink look at the coaching."  

Tackling is a basic skill that all of these guys learned in college.  I don't know how it could be blamed on the coaches unless these guys were missing tackles because they were out of position and not getting good clean tackle attempts.

Great information and confirms what I watched last year.

Did these guys or  team get better at tackles as season progressed or just consistently bad?

(07-29-2020, 04:39 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Easy training camps, not enough padded, tackling practices.

You play like you practice...

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Kinda explains the common thread in free agency of good tacklers, the purge of the LB corps and our bringing in a lot of LB in the draft and undrafted classes. 

(07-29-2020, 04:39 PM)JSR18 Wrote: Easy training camps, not enough padded, tackling practices.

You play like you practice...

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So the Bengals are the only NFL team who practices like that?

If any of you have ever been in a film session with football coaches you will know that nothing pisses them off more than missed tackles and stupid penalties.

The defense was 15th in most missed tackles with 109 last season. 

(07-29-2020, 04:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to ProFootballOutsiders the top three players in the league in missed tackles were

Jesse Bates.........24
Nick Vigil............23
Shawn Williams...22

I have a saying.  "When a player stinks look at the player.  When ALL the players stink look at the coaching."  

Tackling is a basic skill that all of these guys learned in college.  I don't know how it could be blamed on the coaches unless these guys were missing tackles because they were out of position and not getting good clean tackle attempts.

I think a good deal of it comes down to coaching.  When you have turnover when it comes to coaching every 
Couple years it affects how players play that positon.
When Zimmer was DC I can promise you the Bengals didnt hsve 3 players in the top of missed tackles.
Zimmer had guys playing scared knowing they would hear about it from him and Marvin all week.

Here's the other side of it. Safties have the most ground to cover on defense.  I started 3 years in high school.
Bates and Willams I believe were so spent by the late 3rd q. Their technique and form was bad

Why were they tired. Cause slap nuts like Vigil.were missing tackles forcing our safeties to come up 
Make the stop. 

(07-29-2020, 05:12 PM)J24 Wrote: The defense was 15th in most missed tackles with 109 last season. 

According to PFO Bengals defense was 29th in "total broken tackles" with 143.

But they also list "plays with broken tackles" and Bengals were 24th with 111.

PFO calculates "broken tackle percentage" based on the number of plays instead of total missed tackles (I guess because a ball carrier can only be tackled once per play).  Bengals rank 20th in "broken tackle percentage" because our defense faced so many plays it lowers the percentage.

(07-29-2020, 05:23 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Why were they tired. Cause slap nuts like Vigil were missing tackles forcing our safeties to come up 
Make the stop. 

You are 100% correct about our safeties having to make a ton of tackles, but it was not just because of Vigil missing tackles.  Our entire front seven had trouble shedding blockers.

Vigil and Williams had tackling issues for most of their career and it was a knock on Bates when he was drafted even though he did well in that area his rookie year.

I was very happy when Zack, Captain Lou, Duke, and Radicevic went after defenders who were plus tacklers in Free Agency.

(07-29-2020, 05:34 PM)Synric Wrote: Vigil and Williams had tackling issues for most of their career and it was a knock on Bates when he was drafted even though he did well in that area his rookie year.

I was very happy when Zack, Captain Lou, Duke, and Radicevic went after defenders who were plus tacklers in Free Agency.

And the draft.   All 3 drafted linebackers had good tackling technique

(07-29-2020, 05:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are 100% correct about our safeties having to make a ton of tackles, but it was not just because of Vigil missing tackles.  Our entire front seven had trouble shedding blockers.

The Bengals LBers in general overall were really bad at making stops. Pratt had issues. Brown looked really 
Slow. I can imagine Williams Bates just saying to themselves " how many tackles will they miss today ?" 

Hopefully good tackling is contagious this year 

(07-29-2020, 05:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to PFO Bengals defense was 29th in "total broken tackles" with 143.

But they also list "plays with broken tackles" and Bengals were 24th with 111.

PFO calculates "broken tackle percentage" based on the number of plays instead of total missed tackles (I guess because a ball carrier can only be tackled once per play).  Bengals rank 20th in "broken tackle percentage" because our defense faced so many plays it lowers the percentage.

Well pro football reference had them at 15th.

(07-29-2020, 06:01 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The Bengals LBers in general overall were really bad at making stops. Pratt had issues. Brown looked really 
Slow. I can imagine Williams Bates just saying to themselves " how many tackles will they miss today ?" 

Hopefully good tackling is contagious this year 

Germaine Pratt had 7 missed tackles and was second in the league at linebacker in run stop percentage. His issues were in coverage.

Wait...so you’re telling me Bynes is a step up from Vigil? You’ve been pretty adamant that he’s not...

Yeah, it was so sad to see the tackling attempts on the Bengals. Two hand touch Pro Bowlers.

I don't know what his stats say but I'd guess Kirkpatrick was amongst the worst tacklers at CB.

(07-29-2020, 06:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Wait...so you’re telling me Bynes is a step up from Vigil? You’ve been pretty adamant that he’s not...

No one even mentioned bynes.