(08-12-2020, 12:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Those who abuse like you always have an excuse for whipping people you don't know personally. It is a bold prediction thread, yet that is your stance. Weak and rude comments to justify your attack on Hart.

Show me where in this thread I was “abusive” or “rude.”

This little vendetta you have against me is what’s weak. Andy’s gone my man. Time to let it go.

(08-12-2020, 12:57 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fwiw, Hart is a RT. Jonah Williams is at the LT.

Whoa whoa whoa...don’t be a hater, Wes! I recently corrected Luvinit on what year Dalton came into the league and you would have thought I kicked his dog off a bridge by his reaction...

Bobby Hart is a 66 in Madden while Trey ‘Future Pro Bowler’ Hopkins is only a 68.

(08-12-2020, 01:57 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: Bobby Hart is a 66 in Madden while Trey ‘Future Pro Bowler’ Hopkins is only a 68.

Who needs PFF when you have Madden ratings.

(08-10-2020, 01:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is the same PFF rating system that said Dalton was a better QB in 2018 than 2015.  

You keep using this as some sort of example to how they're not to be trusted...when i've already explained to you how and why it was graded that way. Multiple times. 

(08-12-2020, 03:32 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You keep using this as some sort of example to how they're not to be trusted...when i've already explained to you how and why it was graded that way. Multiple times. 

And i have pointed out that your explanation makes no sense.

(08-12-2020, 11:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And i have pointed out that your explanation makes no sense.

It does make sense. You just don’t agree with it.

(08-12-2020, 01:57 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: Bobby Hart is a 66 in Madden while Trey ‘Future Pro Bowler’ Hopkins is only a 68.

According to FootballOutsiders Hopkins had 28 blown blocks and allowed 5.5 sacks last year while Hart only had 23 blown blocks and allowed just 5 sacks..

Funny how so many people worship the cult of PFF when they can not even show what the PFF ratings are based on.

(08-10-2020, 11:43 PM)lone bengal Wrote: Agreed just seemed liked a lot of fans were drinking the cool aid. Some were acting like Josh Bynes is some great find even tho he's a journeyman linebacker. Also there been a lot of  hyping up Pratt, Wilson and Davis-Gaither even tho they could turn out like every other 3rd and 4th round backers we have drafted. Hope I'm wrong we had a great offseasn and it would have been impossible to fill every need. I hope the kids play well. 

That undrafted journeyman will be a valuable asset in the LB room.  He is a film study junkie and the young guys will certainly be able to learn from him.  That, and Pratt continuing where he left off puts the LB corps head and shoulders over where it was a year ago.  

I think it was wise to "double down" with Wilson and ADG.  Bailey is sort of a late round lottery ticket, but if that dude stays healthy, he sure performed against the best in college football and it wasn't like he was surrounded by NFL talent.  

Very excited about the LBs this season.  

(08-12-2020, 11:11 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It does make sense. You just don’t agree with it.

You claimed that his running stats made him better in 2018, but his running stats were actually WORSE in 2018.

In 2015 Dalton ran for 10.9 yards per game, 15 first downs, and 3 tds
In 2018 Dalton ran for 9.0 yards per game, 4 first downs, and 0 tds.

As I already explained.  I don't agree with it because IT MAKES NO SENSE.

(08-12-2020, 11:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny how so many people worship the cult of PFF when they can not even show what the PFF ratings are based on.

I'm pretty sure I've seen people supply this info before, but here is a link if you care to read it:  https://www.pff.com/grades

Fwiw, I'm not necessarily a huge fan of analytics.  I think they most certainly have their place but I do believe their importance is overly inflated right now.  Of course, the level of which changes from sport to sport.

I will however defend they are vastly superior to the typical stat lines we've seen for years.  Statistics, without proper context, do not tell the whole story.  This is where the immense value in things like PFF comes in.  Although, I would also say that much of this value can be matched with a decent set of eyes and understanding of the game.

(08-12-2020, 01:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You claimed that his running stats made him better in 2018, but his running stats were actually WORSE in 2018.

In 2015 Dalton ran for 10.9 yards per game, 15 first downs, and 3 tds
In 2018 Dalton ran for 9.0 yards per game, 4 first downs, and 0 tds.

As I already explained.  I don't agree with it because IT MAKES NO SENSE.

What about his talent levels for each team?  2015 was vastly superior in every way.  The differences in talent in OL, at WT, at TE, and the D were outstanding.

Could this not explain why they may grade his performance in 2018 on par with 2015?  Afterall, they do take into account bad routes, bad protection, dropped passes, etc.

I think that's where you answer lies.  I tried to have a conversation about this earlier in the thread, but I guess you didn't see it.  I think the around him goes a long way in a proper discussion about his level of play.  

(08-12-2020, 01:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What about his talent levels for each team?  2015 was vastly superior in every way.  The differences in talent in OL, at WT, at TE, and the D were outstanding.

Could this not explain why they may grade his performance in 2018 on par with 2015?  Afterall, they do take into account bad routes, bad protection, dropped passes, etc.

I think that's where you answer lies.  I tried to have a conversation about this earlier in the thread, but I guess you didn't see it.  I think the around him goes a long way in a proper discussion about his level of play.  

1.  This demonstrates one of the biggest problems with PFF.  Since we don't know what thei rankings are based on we can't really have a meaningful discussion about them


2.  If I ever mention the talent around Dalton effecting his play I get crucified.  Basically when Dalton was good it was all because of the talent around him, but when he was bad it was all his fault and had nothing to do with the talent around him.

(08-12-2020, 01:13 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm pretty sure I've seen people supply this info before, but here is a link if you care to read it:  https://www.pff.com/grades

Yes.  I have seen all of that info before.  But we have no idea which plays were graded as "above average" and which ones were graded "below average".  We have no idea how they are coming up with these grades.  Two players could both do their job on a play but one would get a "0" while the other would get a "1" or a "2".  It is all way too subjective.

And the formula is BS.  A guy who only plays 10 snaps in a game and messes up twice will be rated higher (-2) than a guy who played 60 snaps and only messed up 3 times (-3).  It makes no sense.

(08-12-2020, 12:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Show me where in this thread I was “abusive” or “rude.”

This little vendetta you have against me is what’s weak. Andy’s gone my man. Time to let it go.

Yeah my bold predictions of 1000 yards each for Green and Boyd proves to you I need to let AD go. Who will be throwing to the receivers? It won;t be AD!  You are a troll, move forward and quit looking back Nico, life will be more fun.

An attack on Hart prediction was both weak and rude in a titled named make bold predictions. Got it now?????????

(08-12-2020, 03:41 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Yeah my bold predictions of 1000 yards each for Green and Boyd proves to you I need to let AD go. Who will be throwing to the receivers? It won;t be AD!  You are a troll, move forward and quit looking back Nico, life will be more fun.

An attack on Hart prediction was both weak and rude in a titled named make bold predictions. Got it now?????????

First of all, I’m not a troll. I’ve been posting here for 4 years, and engage and contribute in actual discussions on daily basis. You’re either just wildly flailing in your attempt to insult me, or you don’t know what that word means.

As far as my “rude and weak attack” about the Hart prediction? It’s a message board big guy. People post, and others respond to it. That’s how it works. I was not rude in any way towards the poster that made the prediction. I made it quite clear I don’t care for Hart as a player or a person (which should be understandable considering some of the disgusting things he’s said), but that’s it. It was all civil discussion until you came in with your vendetta, and your barrage of question marks.

(08-10-2020, 07:45 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Injuries put Wilson in the starting lineup at LB, he has 140+ tackles.

Darius Phillips scores 4 TDS

Defense holds Lamar Jackson under 80 yards rushing in both games combined

Joe Burrow throws 7TDs in one game

Bengals drop a 50burger on the Browns

I forgot to comment on the 50 burger, but as much as I would love to see Baker vs. Burrow become a rivalry, I would give anything to see the Bengals drop a 50 burger on the steelers.  In their house.  

(08-12-2020, 01:17 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: What about his talent levels for each team?  2015 was vastly superior in every way.  The differences in talent in OL, at WT, at TE, and the D were outstanding.

Could this not explain why they may grade his performance in 2018 on par with 2015?  Afterall, they do take into account bad routes, bad protection, dropped passes, etc.

I think that's where you answer lies.  I tried to have a conversation about this earlier in the thread, but I guess you didn't see it.  I think the around him goes a long way in a proper discussion about his level of play.  

The rationale provided by PFF (I think they interviewed someone from there on Locked on Bengals podcast, which is good stuff if you don't listen) was that Dalton had performed better "off script" in 2018 vs 2015, so this does play in to the talent being superior in 2015 narrative.  He had to do more on his own in 2018.  Statistically, Dalton was better in 2015, but I have never seen him play better than he did in 2018.  The defense was so awful that year, though, it ruined it.  

I remember thinking the steeler monkey was finally off his back as he had a decisive game-winning drive to take the lead with about a minute left only the defense gave up a TD in no time.  How different that season may have been if they won that game and had a bit better defense.  

(08-13-2020, 10:58 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I forgot to comment on the 50 burger, but as much as I would love to see Baker vs. Burrow become a rivalry, I would give anything to see the Bengals drop a 50 burger on the steelers.  In their house.  

If we put up 50 on that defense start planning the parade.

(08-12-2020, 11:09 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And i have pointed out that your explanation makes no sense.

Math doesn't make sense?

You need to take that up with Archimedes, holmes.