New coach, new assistants, changing players...

It's all moot until they hire a real General Manager with a successful track record and the power to make football decisions including hiring coaches, staff, scouts, upgrading facilities, etc.

That is the first step in the Bengals gaining the credibility needed to hire a great coach and excellent assistants.

What you have now is a second class organization that gets second class coaches because the coaches they hire know they will have more job security with the Bengals regardless of performance.

 

 

(12-11-2020, 02:36 PM)bengals67 Wrote: New coach, new assistants, changing players...

It's all moot until they hire a real General Manager with a successful track record and the power to make football decisions including hiring coaches, staff, scouts, upgrading facilities, etc.

That is the first step in the Bengals gaining the credibility needed to hire a great coach and excellent assistants.

What you have now is a second class organization that gets second class coaches because the coaches they hire know they will have more job security with the Bengals regardless of performance.

 

 

IMHO it's the #1 thing that needs to happen, butt.

Mike believes he's an all star GM and refuses to give up control so........

(12-11-2020, 02:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: IMHO it's the #1 thing that needs to happen, butt.

Mike believes he's an all star GM and refuses to give up control so........

so.... to answer your question...

Bengals will continue to be second class regardless of the identity of head coach. It's really kind of irrelevant.

We will continue to lose every game we play the Steelers. Washington Generals to the Steelers Globetrotters.

Burrow will be Bengalized and leave after his first contract ( and will be smart to do so  - he should get out sooner if possible).

Fans in Cincinnati won't buy tickets and Bengals will move to a new city and a new stadium deal when lease is up. ( and justify their decision because of lack of support from fans, City and Hamilton County).

It's all too predictable.  

(12-11-2020, 02:48 PM)bengals67 Wrote: so.... to answer your question...

Bengals will continue to be second class regardless of the identity of head coach. It's really kind of irrelevant.

We will continue to lose every game we play the Steelers. Washington Generals to the Steelers Globetrotters.

Burrow will be Bengalized and leave after his first contract ( and will be smart to do so  - he should get out sooner if possible).

Fans in Cincinnati won't buy tickets and Bengals will move to a new city and a new stadium deal when lease is up. ( and justify their decision because of lack of support from fans, City and Hamilton County).

It's all too predictable.  

Wouldn't the Bengals be forced into the Art Modell law that Ohio has if they tried to move the team?
Columbus Crew went through this a few years ago.
The law reads...

Quote:Ohio Revised Code Section 9.67 – better known as the "Art Model law" – says owners whose teams use tax-supported facilities and accept financial assistance from the state are prohibited from moving to another city unless they give at least six months' notice and give individuals who live in the area an opportunity to purchase the team.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/04/17/legal-sports-experts-weigh-in-on-art-modell-law.html



Or would that not fall under this because the lease would be up on the tax-supported PBS?

(12-11-2020, 02:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: IMHO it's the #1 thing that needs to happen, butt.

Mike believes he's an all star GM and refuses to give up control so........

I disagree.  I don't think he controls much of anything anymore.

The problem is that it's still HIS money and he's a tight ass, even though Xiong all of those things would still leave him with more money than he could ever spend.

I think Troy and Katie would happily do all of those things if they had complete control, but Mike is too bull-headed to realize that the ROI on all of those things would more than pay for himself.

He's still old school and doesn't realize that the small scouting staff, along with coaches doing their own scouting, can't do enough to get us the players we need.

He thinks Duke Tobin and whoever else can get the job done of bringing in free agents, forming contracts, working out details, controlling the stadium and ticket prices, and doing whatever else.

He thinks we don't need a big and modernized weight room because he doesn't realize how much taking care of players' bodies has evolved and doesn't think we need an indoor practice facility because we borrow UC'S.

He won't do any of those things because he still makes money and doesn't realize that doing all of those things would make him a lot more money.

I feel like they consider Tobin their GM. I've read that MB views him like a son. I think odds of him being fired are low.

The 5 playoff appearances in a row was bad for the hopes for a GM to be hired. It validated to them that their model can work...atleast to them.

(12-11-2020, 02:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Wouldn't the Bengals be forced into the Art Modell law that Ohio has if they tried to move the team?
Columbus Crew went through this a few years ago.
The law reads...
https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/04/17/legal-sports-experts-weigh-in-on-art-modell-law.html



Or would that not fall under this because the lease would be up on the tax-supported PBS?

Quote: Wrote:Ohio Revised Code Section 9.67 – better known as the "Art Model law" – says owners whose teams use tax-supported facilities and accept financial assistance from the state are prohibited from moving to another city unless they give at least six months' notice and give individuals who live in the area an opportunity to purchase the team.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/04/17/legal-sports-experts-weigh-in-on-art-modell-law.html


And now, brought to you by Proctor and Gamble, your 2022 Cincinnati Tide Pods!  

Mike Brown still has his finger prints on operation, I don't care how much of the daily operation is monitored by Katie et al. Mike Brown will be 86 years of age next August of 2021.

Stadium lease expires soon and new negotiation for lease will be in about 5 years. Bengals do not have a lot of time to turn things around; especially since the new HC and his play calling led to the injury of their star rookie Ohio Native QB.

Mike Brown's way, no matter how you view the product, is considered atrocious failure by any sport measurement. He was voted the 2nd worse owner/GM in all of sports by Yahoo Sports.

I don't care if Tobin is the de facto GM, Mike Brown influences are still there. He is involved in some capacity. He needs to go away, completely.

(12-11-2020, 07:17 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Mike Brown still has his finger prints on operation, I don't care how much of the daily operation is monitored by Katie et al.  Mike Brown will be 86 years of age next August of 2021.  

Stadium lease expires soon and new negotiation for lease will be in about 5 years.  Bengals do not have a lot of time to turn things around; especially since the new HC and his play calling led to the injury of their star rookie Ohio Native QB.

Mike Brown's way, no matter how you view the product, is considered atrocious failure by any sport measurement.  He was voted the 2nd worse owner/GM in all of sports by Yahoo Sports.  

I don't care if Tobin is the de facto GM, Mike Brown influences are still there.  He is involved in some capacity.  He needs to go away, completely.

Wouldn't it be nice if Mike had an Ebenezer Scrooge like dream, and realized that his love for the organization has been misguided, and advised Katie to hire an actual GM?

Maybe Detroit could have a 2nd football team?

(12-11-2020, 07:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if Mike had an Ebenezer Scrooge like dream, and realized that his love for the organization has been misguided, and advised Katie to hire an actual GM?

Not sure I believe this but Mike Brown gets extra money for title of GM.  Surely that cannot be the reason he wants to maintain the title.  And yes, I am calling you Surely!  

(12-11-2020, 05:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/04/17/legal-sports-experts-weigh-in-on-art-modell-law.html


And now, brought to you by Proctor and Gamble, your 2022 Cincinnati Tide Pods!  

My money would be on a ownership group led by George Clooney if it's going to be locally purchased.

(12-11-2020, 08:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: My money would be on a ownership group led by George Clooney if it's going to be locally purchased.

So, the Lexington Thoroughbreds?

(12-11-2020, 07:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Wouldn't it be nice if Mike had an Ebenezer Scrooge like dream, and realized that his love for the organization has been misguided, and advised Katie to hire an actual GM?

Where is Marley when you need him and the Ghosts of past, present and future?

(12-11-2020, 08:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Where is Marley when you need him and the Ghosts of past, present and future?

Ghosts of past would definitely be all of the high draft picks that never worked out.  Kijana, Klingler, Carson, Akili, etc., etc.  The Ghost of present would be Burrow, sitting in his hospital bed with his reconstructed knee.  The Ghost of the future might be Burrow hoisting a Lombardi, while being carried off the field by Sewell and Higgins.

(12-11-2020, 09:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote:   Kijana, Klingler, Carson, Akili, etc., etc.

C'mon now, does Carson really deserved to be lumped in with Kijana, Klinger, and Akili?

The guy was widely considered a top 5 QB in '05, '06, and '07.

He's #14 ALL TIME in passing yards.

He's # 13 ALL TIME in passing touchdowns.

He made multiple Pro Bowls, finished with a winning record as a starter, despite stops in Cincinnati and Oakland, and played in an NFC Championship game

At the age of 36 he did the following:  4,671 yards, 35 TD's, 11 INT's, 104.6 QB rating, and lead his team to a league best 13-3 record.

I'm sorry, you just can't shove his name in the middle of those names, even if he didn't leave on the best of terms.  He had a fantastic 14 year career, and gave this town a well above average 7 seasons.

You could have went with Reinard Wilson, John Copeland, Chris Perry, David Pollack, Ogbehui, etc.

Sorry if I sound like the Carson police here, but I try to stick up for this dude as much as I can.  He is nowhere near an expample of a pick that didn't work out.

(12-11-2020, 09:21 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: C'mon now, does Carson really deserved to be lumped in with Kijana, Klinger, and Akili?

Yes, because he got devastated in his 1st year of play with the team.  Had he not had his knee destroyed in that game,
who knows, the stigma might have been over..

(12-11-2020, 09:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, because he got devastated in his 1st year of play with the team.  Had he not had his knee destroyed in that game,
who knows, the stigma might have been over..

Fair enough. But you did preface that list with "all the high picks who never worked out".  That's what I took exception to.

Fwiw, the knee injury was year actually 2 (2nd year playing, year 3 on team).

(12-11-2020, 10:01 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Fair enough. But you did preface that list with "all the high picks who never worked out".  That's what I took exception to.

Fwiw, the knee injury was year actually 2 (2nd year playing, year 3 on team).

Actually, his second year on team.  He sat his rookie season 2004, Marvin's first season, and then took the Bengals to the playoffs in his first year as a starter.

However, I can understand your confusion by my inclusion in that list of players.  Carson was yet another top pick that ultimately did not work out well for the Mike Brown Bengals.  I mean we could include other top picks that had success on the field, yet didn't work out well with the Mike Brown era Bengals.  A few that come to mind are Corey Dillon, Carl Pickens, Takeo Spikes..