(12-11-2020, 10:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, his second year on team.  He sat his rookie season 2004, Marvin's first season, and then took the Bengals to the playoffs in his first year as a starter.

However, I can understand your confusion by my inclusion in that list of players.  Carson was yet another top pick that ultimately did not work out well for the Mike Brown Bengals.  I mean we could include other top picks that had success on the field, yet didn't work out well with the Mike Brown era Bengals.  A few that come to mind are Corey Dillon, Carl Pickens, Takeo Spikes..

His rookie year was 2003, in which he sat.  He started 2004.  His knee was destroyed in his third year on the team in 2005.  

Wes was correct.

(12-11-2020, 10:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, his second year on team.  He sat his rookie season 2004, Marvin's first season, and then took the Bengals to the playoffs in his first year as a starter.

Marvin and Palmers first year was 2003. Palmer sat behind Kitna.

2004 was Palmers first year starting, we went 8-8.

2005 was Palmer 2nd year starting, and 3rd year on team.  He got Van Olhoffined (sp?) that years playoff.

Not trying to bust balls, or anything pointing this out.  I just think a lot of people forget he started a full year before 05.

(12-11-2020, 02:36 PM)bengals67 Wrote: New coach, new assistants, changing players...

It's all moot until they hire a real General Manager with a successful track record and the power to make football decisions including hiring coaches, staff, scouts, upgrading facilities, etc.

That is the first step in the Bengals gaining the credibility needed to hire a great coach and excellent assistants.

What you have now is a second class organization that gets second class coaches because the coaches they hire know they will have more job security with the Bengals regardless of performance.

 

 

There is so much more. No scouts, No practice bubble.. This team is so far behind other franchises it will never catch up... 

I forgot the best one. Tj Housh said they had to share jock straps.. That's down right disgusting and ridiculous...

No credibility, no hope. If the twilight zone had a team, the Bengals would surely be it.

(12-11-2020, 07:17 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Mike Brown still has his finger prints on operation, I don't care how much of the daily operation is monitored by Katie et al.  Mike Brown will be 86 years of age next August of 2021.  

Stadium lease expires soon and new negotiation for lease will be in about 5 years.  Bengals do not have a lot of time to turn things around; especially since the new HC and his play calling led to the injury of their star rookie Ohio Native QB.

Mike Brown's way, no matter how you view the product, is considered atrocious failure by any sport measurement.  He was voted the 2nd worse owner/GM in all of sports by Yahoo Sports.  

I don't care if Tobin is the de facto GM, Mike Brown influences are still there.  He is involved in some capacity.  He needs to go away, completely.

Exactly

He may not be there in person all day long every day at the head of the table but every decision above 11teen seventy five still has to have his stamp of approval. I don't buy for a second he handed Katie and Co. the checkbook and said take over.

(12-11-2020, 11:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Marvin and Palmers first year was 2003. Palmer sat behind Kitna.

2004 was Palmers first year starting, we went 8-8.

2005 was Palmer 2nd year starting, and 3rd year on team.  He got Van Olhoffined (sp?) that years playoff.

Not trying to bust balls, or anything pointing this out.  I just think a lot of people forget he started a full year before 05.

Correct

In 2004 he missed the last few games due to injury.

(12-11-2020, 08:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, the Lexington Thoroughbreds?

That sounds like the name that'll be used by the Broncos' farm team if the NFL ever gets a minor league system.

(12-11-2020, 11:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Marvin and Palmers first year was 2003. Palmer sat behind Kitna.

2004 was Palmers first year starting, we went 8-8.

2005 was Palmer 2nd year starting, and 3rd year on team.  He got Van Olhoffined (sp?) that years playoff.

Not trying to bust balls, or anything pointing this out.  I just think a lot of people forget he started a full year before 05.

Yes, you are correct.  That era was during my divorced years, so my memory might be a little hazy from that time period.  Didn't mean to argue with you over it.

(12-11-2020, 11:10 PM)Tony Wrote: There is so much more. No scouts, No practice bubble.. This team is so far behind other franchises it will never catch up... 

Yes. And it will not change because to hire scouts and a GM it will cost them 10-15 million a year in payroll and this money would not be able to be divided up between all the family members that have jobs just because they are family. Think about the craziness of paying to build and operate a practice facility. Insurance, electric, maintenance ect... they could not afford to hire the rest of pumpkins kids then.

(12-13-2020, 11:33 AM)WhodeyRay Wrote: Yes. And it will not change because to hire scouts and a GM it will cost them 10-15 million a year in payroll and this money would not be able to be divided up between all the family members that have jobs just because they are family. Think about the craziness of paying to build and operate a practice facility. Insurance, electric, maintenance ect... they could not afford to hire the rest of pumpkins kids then.

Nothing worse than when people completely talk out of their arse and just throw numbers around, without an ounce effort put in to make sure they're correct.

The salaries of NFL GM's range, depending on when are where you look, from somewhere in the neighboorhood of 2 to 4 million a year.  (Fwiw, John was highest paid GM at 3.75 mil in 2017)

The salaries of scouts ranges from 40-120k, depending on experience and job details.

Let's assume the Bengals spend towards the upper level on a GM at 3.5 million.  And Let's assume the Bengals add 12 scouts, at average cost of 80k per.  That's 960k.

You now have added a top tier GM and brought your scouting department up to 20 people by an investment of 4.460 million dollars.

There is a very big difference between 4.4 mil and 10-15 mil.  I'd love to know how you came up with your number.

You speak about this taking money away from the family.  It's money out of their pockets.  4.4 million a year is now gone from the Brown family savings account.

That's a rather short sided way of looking at it.  Did you know the Bengals lost well north of 10 million dollars last year due to PBS routinely having less than 40k fans in attendance?  Perhaps with a capable front office we'd be better, and we'd sell more tickets.  This town has proven time and time again, they will fill up PBS if you give us a decent team.  (We gave them 8 year straight of sellouts during Marvin's tenure)

So the cost of the GM and the scouts not only wouldn't cost 10-15 million, it most likely wouldn't cost anything.  It would either pay for itself due to producing a better product, or it would actually result in them making more due to profits from tickets sold exceeding the added salaries.

Lastly, your take on the practice facility is absolutely pathetic.  You're really going to bring up the cost of insurance and electric when talking about a 2.2 BILLION dollar company, and family that has hoarded hundreds of millions of dollars?  Really?

If HIGH SCHOOLS can come up with the funds to build and operate a indoor facility then I'm sure the Brown family can manage just fine.  Partner up with UC and throw in 40 million (Carlos Dunlap's 3 year deal) and you've got a facility you can use and enjoy for at least the next two decades.  

(12-11-2020, 02:36 PM)bengals67 Wrote: New coach, new assistants, changing players...

It's all moot until they hire a real General Manager with a successful track record and the power to make football decisions including hiring coaches, staff, scouts, upgrading facilities, etc.

That is the first step in the Bengals gaining the credibility needed to hire a great coach and excellent assistants.

What you have now is a second class organization that gets second class coaches because the coaches they hire know they will have more job security with the Bengals regardless of performance.

 

 

I agree completely. However, I would not rate Taylor and his pals as high as second class coaches. They remind me more of children who know little about the consequences of their actions and are ready with a parade of excuses when they are called out for the mis-deeds.

 

(12-13-2020, 11:33 AM)WhodeyRay Wrote: Yes. And it will not change because to hire scouts and a GM it will cost them 10-15 million a year in payroll and this money would not be able to be divided up between all the family members that have jobs just because they are family. Think about the craziness of paying to build and operate a practice facility. Insurance, electric, maintenance ect... they could not afford to hire the rest of pumpkins kids then.

That's great! And what they miss out on being cheap and being a perennial winner is it makes the franchise worth hundreds of millions more!

It's like they wouldnt pay Zeitler and Whitworth and have spent how many years and how much to find quality replacements.

(12-11-2020, 08:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: My money would be on a ownership group led by George Clooney if it's going to be locally purchased.

I dont get the connection to Clooney..is he from Ohio? Has he expressed any interest using some of his Tequila $ on getting in on an NFL team?
This law could be the magic bullet to rid this team of Brown and Fam .    

(12-13-2020, 12:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Nothing worse than when people completely talk out of their arse and just throw numbers around, without an ounce effort put in to make sure they're correct.

The salaries of NFL GM's range, depending on when are where you look, from somewhere in the neighboorhood of 2 to 4 million a year.  (Fwiw, John was highest paid GM at 3.75 mil in 2017)

The salaries of scouts ranges from 40-120k, depending on experience and job details.

Let's assume the Bengals spend towards the upper level on a GM at 3.5 million.  And Let's assume the Bengals add 12 scouts, at average cost of 80k per.  That's 960k.

You now have added a top tier GM and brought your scouting department up to 20 people by an investment of 4.460 million dollars.

There is a very big difference between 4.4 mil and 10-15 mil.  I'd love to know how you came up with your number.

You speak about this taking money away from the family.  It's money out of their pockets.  4.4 million a year is now gone from the Brown family savings account.

That's a rather short sided way of looking at it.  Did you know the Bengals lost well north of 10 million dollars last year due to PBS routinely having less than 40k fans in attendance?  Perhaps with a capable front office we'd be better, and we'd sell more tickets.  This town has proven time and time again, they will fill up PBS if you give us a decent team.  (We gave them 8 year straight of sellouts during Marvin's tenure)

So the cost of the GM and the scouts not only wouldn't cost 10-15 million, it most likely wouldn't cost anything.  It would either pay for itself due to producing a better product, or it would actually result in them making more due to profits from tickets sold exceeding the added salaries.

Lastly, your take on the practice facility is absolutely pathetic.  You're really going to bring up the cost of insurance and electric when talking about a 2.2 BILLION dollar company, and family that has hoarded hundreds of millions of dollars?  Really?

If HIGH SCHOOLS can come up with the funds to build and operate a indoor facility then I'm sure the Brown family can manage just fine.  Partner up with UC and throw in 40 million (Carlos Dunlap's 3 year deal) and you've got a facility you can use and enjoy for at least the next two decades.  

Calm down Wes. I was throwing out numbers. I wasn't giving exact figures. Please read it again. I am agreeing with you on the fact they can afford it. My point was in MBs mind this would be his reasoning that he cant. I am not defending that their cheap asses. They would just rather save the month for the family members.

(12-11-2020, 09:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ghosts of past would definitely be all of the high draft picks that never worked out.  Kijana, Klingler, Carson, Akili, etc., etc.  The Ghost of present would be Burrow, sitting in his hospital bed with his reconstructed knee.  The Ghost of the future might be Burrow hoisting a Lombardi, while being carried off the field by Sewell and Higgins.

I like that Ghost of the future.

(12-11-2020, 02:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: IMHO it's the #1 thing that needs to happen, butt.

Mike believes he's an all star GM and refuses to give up control so........

so what?

Continue to wait until next year?

(12-13-2020, 01:41 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I dont get the connection to Clooney..is he from Ohio? Has he expressed any interest using some of his Tequila $ on getting in on an NFL team?
This law could be the magic bullet to rid this team of Brown and Fam .    

Clooney is from Kentucky.

(12-13-2020, 03:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like that Ghost of the future.

So we will pick 3rd this next draft. Almost guaranteed now. So we will have picked top 3 2 years in a row. And Top 12 5 years in a row.

Should be able to build a good team with that.

(12-11-2020, 11:04 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Marvin and Palmers first year was 2003. Palmer sat behind Kitna.

2004 was Palmers first year starting, we went 8-8.

2005 was Palmer 2nd year starting, and 3rd year on team.  He got Van Olhoffined (sp?) that years playoff.

Not trying to bust balls, or anything pointing this out.  I just think a lot of people forget he started a full year before 05.

I think most people forget that Carson sprained his knee against the Patriots in 2004 and missed the last 3 weeks.