(01-21-2021, 02:05 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I thought the roll over and cap spend requirements went away with the new contract that was recently negotiated?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28901832/nfl-cba-approved-players-get-new-deal-how-expanded-playoffs-schedule-work

To big to copy, but I did not see anything on the bolded items above. I will keep looking.

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2021-salary-cap-drop/

Looks like both are still in place in new CBA completed in 2020


How does the salary cap work?

There is a lot of math that goes into calculating the salary cap. But when you boil it down it, is actually a reasonably simple process. The salary cap is set based on two elements.
Firstly, the leagues’ expected revenue in the upcoming season is calculated, with the previous season’s revenue against expected taken into account. In order to then derive the cap number, the percentage of that revenue that is dedicated to the players in the CBA is used. Over the course of the last CBA, the players have had anywhere between 47.5 and 48.5% of the revenue portioned to them. That revenue comes in two ways, the first is the salary cap and the second is in their benefits.
Therefore, to calculate the salary cap the following calculations are performed:

• Revenue calculations x CBA percentage = Players revenue share
• Player revenue share – projected benefits = The amount available for salaries
• The amount available for salaries/number of teams = Base salary cap per team
  

The final element of determining cap space comes in the form of adjustments. The biggest of these is the salary cap “rollover”. This “rollover” allows teams to bring their unused cap from the previous season into the current season. For 2020, the Indianapolis Colts led the league rolling over more than $41 million from 2019, with a total of seven teams rolling over more than $20 million. These numbers are then added to the base salary cap, $198 million in 2019, to give each team a final cap number.
Teams are limited from stockpiling huge cap numbers into one or two years by the NFL’s 89% rule. The 89% rule means that in any four-year period a team must spend more than 89% of its cap in “cash spending.” There are ways around this for teams, including paying players big upfront bonuses that count as a “cash spend” in that season while sharing the salary cap hit across the life of the contract.

(01-20-2021, 11:24 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I may be wrong, but think if they cut Geno after june 1st, they can spread the dead cap money over 2021 and 2022. So 9.6 becomes closer to 12 million in 2021 and 13.5 in 2022.

You are correct. 

(01-20-2021, 07:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You know, you're right.  Good catch.  I distinctly remember seeing a 42.x figure not too long ago.

Here is what I think is the explanation for that. Remember right after the season concluded we signed a bunch of our practice squad guys to futures contracts? When you were seeing the 42 figure (as was I) it wasn't including our practice squad guys, only our regulars under contract for 2021. Way less than 51 players. Then they added those contracts and it dropped our cap space. 

At least i'm pretty sure that's what happened. I base this on overthecap.com rather than spotrac, although the two sources almost always have the exact same numbers (presumably using the same source of data). I just want to plug overthecap.com because while it gives the same info I find it way more user friendly and intuitive. 

For example, go here: https://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/

Scroll down and start cutting guys who don't have a snowball's chance of making the team, like Donnie Lewis, Keandre Jones, etc, and you'll see our cap space climb north again. Of course those guys will be replaced by draft picks and/or whomever does make the team, but point being "cap space" turns out to be fluid. 

You can also see what happens when we make Geno a June 1 cut - we save more like 12M this year. Sure it's at the cost of 2022's cap, but hey, the future is now. 

(01-21-2021, 01:20 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: Here is what I think is the explanation for that. Remember right after the season concluded we signed a bunch of our practice squad guys to futures contracts? When you were seeing the 42 figure (as was I) it wasn't including our practice squad guys, only our regulars under contract for 2021. Way less than 51 players. Then they added those contracts and it dropped our cap space. 

At least i'm pretty sure that's what happened. I base this on overthecap.com rather than spotrac, although the two sources almost always have the exact same numbers (presumably using the same source of data). I just want to plug overthecap.com because while it gives the same info I find it way more user friendly and intuitive. 

For example, go here: https://overthecap.com/calculator/cincinnati-bengals/

Scroll down and start cutting guys who don't have a snowball's chance of making the team, like Donnie Lewis, Keandre Jones, etc, and you'll see our cap space climb north again. Of course those guys will be replaced by draft picks and/or whomever does make the team, but point being "cap space" turns out to be fluid. 

You can also see what happens when we make Geno a June 1 cut - we save more like 12M this year. Sure it's at the cost of 2022's cap, but hey, the future is now. 

That is why I never understand Hoard and others act like our cap goes up the amount of our draft choices contracts, as you stated it is less money on some of the top 51 now, nut they goes off the books when someone gets paid higher than them until we reach 51 players, so it is the difference of the new contracts subtracting the less paid guys.

So if we spend 8 million in rookie contracts, my guest is at least 2.5 million is offset.

(01-20-2021, 07:44 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You know, you're right.  Good catch.  I distinctly remember seeing a 42.x figure not too long ago.

It's because even sites like spotrac and over the cap are guessing at numbers because they don't have full contract details for incentives etc. That is what happened Bengals players received extra pay for making certain goals detailed in their contracts.

Trying to guess at actual cap numbers as a fan is an exercise in futility because no one actually knows the cap numbers but the team and the league.

There is definitely uncertainty when projecting the cap, but it doesn't account for the $7M discrepancy Wes and others have pointed to. For instance, we saved about a million in unearned incentives that wouldn't be reflected in Spotrac's or overthecap's numbers, but not a 7 million dollar swing.

See, for instance:

Great stuff, as always, from John discussing some additional cap adjustments (~$1M) resulting from players not earning per-game active roster bonuses that had counted against the Bengals' 2020 Cap since they were considered Likely to Be Earned (LTBE) incentives

Also, follow John https://t.co/a5astTMOb8

— Andre Perrotta (@andreperrotta13) January 20, 2021

(01-21-2021, 04:24 PM)Geno_Can_Dunk Wrote: There is definitely uncertainty when projecting the cap, but it doesn't account for the $7M discrepancy Wes and others have pointed to. For instance, we saved about a million in unearned incentives that wouldn't be reflected in Spotrac's or overthecap's numbers, but not a 7 million dollar swing.

See, for instance:

Great stuff, as always, from John discussing some additional cap adjustments (~$1M) resulting from players not earning per-game active roster bonuses that had counted against the Bengals' 2020 Cap since they were considered Likely to Be Earned (LTBE) incentives

Also, follow John https://t.co/a5astTMOb8

— Andre Perrotta (@andreperrotta13) January 20, 2021

I believe what Wes and others are referring to is that the cap is only for the Top 51 earners.
So if you have 51 players with the lowest guy making $1 mill then add a guy making $3 mill, it's really just a $2 mill increase because the $1 mill guy gets bumped out of the Top 51.

(01-21-2021, 04:44 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I believe what Wes and others are referring to is that the cap is only for the Top 51 earners.
So if you have 51 players with the lowest guy making $1 mill then add a guy making $3 mill, it's really just a $2 mill increase because the $1 mill guy gets bumped out of the Top 51.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to as well.