(03-05-2021, 10:59 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: or other coaches have a better scheme and implement it better to suit their players strengths..

I dunno if that's the case with Jordan.
When he was drafted, he was touted as a highly-athletic guy who needed more power, technique, and anchor.
Given the wide zone scheme that Taylor wanted to run back in 2019, it made sense to get athletic OL like Jordan.
The problem was they failed at the wide zone scheme under Turner, but maybe they can pull it off with Pollack.

From what I've seen of Jordan, he still doesn't have enough power and anchor to keep defenders at bay, plus his size allows him to more easily lose leverage.

(03-05-2021, 10:44 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I didn't think about that being an issue because other teams seem to be able to get OL acclimated, but maybe that's what it is. Perhaps those players who are succeeding are going to (better) outside training sources since there are so many limitations to how much time can be spent with NFL coaches on the field.

With a handful of exceptions, the standard of O-line play is an issue for most teams across the league and I think the lack of development time is a big part of that. Just look at the shortage of decent Tackles out there in free agency. I understand you don't want to overwork veterans but for the practice squad/depth guys it seems crazy that the teams can't do the work that needs doing during the off-season.

If I was in charge I'd look at some sort of developmental league akin to Minor League Baseball that can help develop these guys after college and reward teams that put effort into development. They go from a very structured regimen in College to - a few days of rookie camp aside - having complete autonomy for months on end. Some will thrive on that, others would benefit greatly from additional guidance and support that the teams are prevented from offering as the rules are set up to look after the veterans with their established routines.

(03-04-2021, 03:20 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: 23 year old Michael Jordan told me to tell you hi and to remind you that he isn't the first mid-round OL to have a rocky start to their career. He also wanted me to remind you it wouldn't be the first time a guy had a down year in the NFL and improved.

58 year old Michael Jordan called me, and said the 23 year old needs to step his game up or change his name.

(03-05-2021, 02:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How the hell do you know anything whatsoever about people’s personal lives here?

Thanks for proving my point. 

(03-04-2021, 03:20 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: 23 year old Michael Jordan told me to tell you hi and to remind you that he isn't the first mid-round OL to have a rocky start to their career. He also wanted me to remind you it wouldn't be the first time a guy had a down year in the NFL and improved.

Hope is not a plan.

Needs to put in work with Munoz too.

(03-05-2021, 01:18 AM)sandwedge Wrote: It wouldn't be the same around here if the "experts" on this board didn't shit on a player or coach. I'm always amazed that there are people who can barely manage their own lives, yet feel compelled tirelessly to truly think they are more competent to run a NFL a NFL team.....

(03-05-2021, 10:08 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Thanks for proving my point. 

I'm more amazed you agree with Marvin... that no one watching from home, nor reporting on the Bengals could possibly know enough about football to question or talk to people like him about it. These people aren't infallible gods. They're human beings. They make mistakes and don't always have all of the information you think they do. You know how many Bengals coach interviews I've heard where the interviewer or podcaster hit them with a fairly obvious stat and their response is a genuine "I didn't know that.", "First time I've heard that stat, I need to look that up", etc etc. So so so many times over the years.


As far as the personal attack on other members being able to run their own lives or not... WTF are you talking about? Unless you know personal stuff about anyone on here, you're just blindly saying dumb shit with that. I get that you love every Bengal to pieces, but the idea that they cannot be criticized is homer bull shit. Picturing you watching a Bengals post game conference while you pop Cheetos and nod your head yes.

Burrows life matters

(03-06-2021, 12:51 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: Burrows life matters

Yes, yes it does.  Mike Jordan is a huge athlete, possibly with some talent in that big body.  

I made a post in another thread recently, touching on the fact that college athletes have so much individual coaching at the collegiate level, that sometimes they are at a loss when they arrive in the NFL.  Jordan may very well be one of those guys.  If you look back at Jordan in college, he was good, like if he would have stayed the next season, would likely have been pushed out to Tackle.

I see no reason why he can't improve with some coaching from an old time pro like Willie Anderson.  Truthfully, I think the real problem is not enough coaches on the Bengals staff to properly develop the young talent.  Jordan has the talent, he was just tossed out there as a starter much too soon.

(03-06-2021, 01:27 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, yes it does.  Mike Jordan is a huge athlete, possibly with some talent in that big body.  

I made a post in another thread recently, touching on the fact that college athletes have so much individual coaching at the collegiate level, that sometimes they are at a loss when they arrive in the NFL.  Jordan may very well be one of those guys.  If you look back at Jordan in college, he was good, like if he would have stayed the next season, would likely have been pushed out to Tackle.

I see no reason why he can't improve with some coaching from an old time pro like Willie Anderson.  Truthfully, I think the real problem is not enough coaches on the Bengals staff to properly develop the young talent.  Jordan has the talent, he was just tossed out there as a starter much too soon.

I don't understand the faith in any coach to turn water into wine.

What makes you guys say he "has the talent"? He was a 4th round pick and has played like absolute trash his entire time. When he was replaced (FINALLY) the guys off the street who came in were an immediate and apparent upgrade.

I just do not understand the positive talent evaluation from anyone at this point. He gets beat in every conceivable way. The guy has size, but gets rag-dolled. Makes a ton of mental errors, and isn't particularly quick or good at anything.

(03-06-2021, 01:27 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, yes it does.  Mike Jordan is a huge athlete, possibly with some talent in that big body.  

I made a post in another thread recently, touching on the fact that college athletes have so much individual coaching at the collegiate level, that sometimes they are at a loss when they arrive in the NFL.  Jordan may very well be one of those guys.  If you look back at Jordan in college, he was good, like if he would have stayed the next season, would likely have been pushed out to Tackle.

I see no reason why he can't improve with some coaching from an old time pro like Willie Anderson.  Truthfully, I think the real problem is not enough coaches on the Bengals staff to properly develop the young talent.  Jordan has the talent, he was just tossed out there as a starter much too soon.

Agree.  Reports I read on him before the draft  more or less said he was guy who had the frame and talent to be a long-term starter in the league, eventually.  Key word is eventually.  His strength was never on a level that would allow him to be able to manage vs grown-man strong NFL D linemen.  

The team lost a lot on the o-line in 2019, then they lost more when Jonah got hurt.  They had a dude coming out of retirement in Jerry to start here.  It was an awful set of circumstances. I'm sure Jordan seemed like a decent option when looking at the group of backups and retreads they had to choose from.  Unfortunately, he predictably got housed when the rubber met the road, and his career and development have probably suffered for it.

I think the best path forward for him is to get a redshirt type of year.  I wouldn't let him on the field in any case outside of the most dire emergency.  get him in the gym and get him working with coaches.  Let hm develop, then see what he can do if you need to in 2022.  

(03-06-2021, 10:34 AM)samhain Wrote: Agree.  Reports I read on him before the draft  more or less said he was guy who had the frame and talent to be a long-term starter in the league, eventually.  Key word is eventually.  His strength was never on a level that would allow him to be able to manage vs grown-man strong NFL D linemen.  

The team lost a lot on the o-line in 2019, then they lost more when Jonah got hurt.  They had a dude coming out of retirement in Jerry to start here.  It was an awful set of circumstances. I'm sure Jordan seemed like a decent option when looking at the group of backups and retreads they had to choose from.  Unfortunately, he predictably got housed when the rubber met the road, and his career and development have probably suffered for it.

I think the best path forward for him is to get a redshirt type of year.  I wouldn't let him on the field in any case outside of the most dire emergency.  get him in the gym and get him working with coaches.  Let hm develop, then see what he can do if you need to in 2022.  

I agree.  I really don't think he was an intended starter.  He was just kind of forced into the role.

As a project = he's young and we'll see

As a starter = nope

(03-06-2021, 10:26 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't understand the faith in any coach to turn water into wine.

What makes you guys say he "has the talent"? He was a 4th round pick and has played like absolute trash his entire time. When he was replaced (FINALLY) the guys off the street who came in were an immediate and apparent upgrade.

I just do not understand the positive talent evaluation from anyone at this point. He gets beat in every conceivable way. The guy has size, but gets rag-dolled. Makes a ton of mental errors, and isn't particularly quick or good at anything.

Jordan is effective pulling Guard, his lateral movement and agility should fit well in a Wide Zone.  It's not all his fault that he was forced into action on a historically bad Bengals OL.  Scheme, coaching and Esprit De Corps can make a huge difference in weather any prospect flourishes or flounders at the next level.

Some, like yourself, are much too quick to dismiss players as "garbage", without acknowledging that those players were all prime prospects, and there are likely factors beyond their immediate control that contribute to their lack of instant success on the NFL field.  Personally, I think it's admirable that he's seeking and accepting help from a man who's been there before.  Just because he got off to a miserable start to his career, does not mean that he still can't coached and developed into a solid, fundamentally strong player.

Who?  

(03-05-2021, 10:43 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm more amazed you agree with Marvin... that no one watching from home, nor reporting on the Bengals could possibly know enough about football to question or talk to people like him about it. These people aren't infallible gods. They're human beings. They make mistakes and don't always have all of the information you think they do. You know how many Bengals coach interviews I've heard where the interviewer or podcaster hit them with a fairly obvious stat and their response is a genuine "I didn't know that.", "First time I've heard that stat, I need to look that up", etc etc. So so so many times over the years.


As far as the personal attack on other members being able to run their own lives or not... WTF are you talking about? Unless you know personal stuff about anyone on here, you're just blindly saying dumb shit with that. I get that you love every Bengal to pieces, but the idea that they cannot be criticized is homer bull shit. Picturing you watching a Bengals post game conference while you pop Cheetos and nod your head yes.

Sorry, I didn't realize you know everything going on inside PBS. Since it's hard for you to understand, I'll say it slower for you. A player knows he needs to get better, so he goes out to get help to improve his game. So the usual people on here take their shots at him? There, got it Sparky?

If you took my original post as PERSONAL, then you have problem. I never pointed anyone out, so how is that personal? Again someone proved my point. "People don't liked to be judged, but have no problem judging other people", There, got it Sparky? Since you know so much, why can't Michael Jordan get better with Willie's help or with Pollock coaching him??????

(03-06-2021, 11:06 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Jordan is effective pulling Guard, his lateral movement and agility should fit well in a Wide Zone.  It's not all his fault that he was forced into action on a historically bad Bengals OL.  Scheme, coaching and Esprit De Corps can make a huge difference in weather any prospect flourishes or flounders at the next level.

Some, like yourself, are much too quick to dismiss players as "garbage", without acknowledging that those players were all prime prospects, and there are likely factors beyond their immediate control that contribute to their lack of instant success on the NFL field.  Personally, I think it's admirable that he's seeking and accepting help from a man who's been there before.  Just because he got off to a miserable start to his career, does not mean that he still can't coached and developed into a solid, fundamentally strong player.

Thanks Sunset! You get it! I've never understood people calling other trash? 
Jordan is young and big as hell, so any kind of help he can get to get better should be praised.

(03-06-2021, 10:39 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I agree.  I really don't think he was an intended started.  He was just kind of forced into the role.

As a project = he's young and we'll see

As a starter = nope

Agree with that

(03-06-2021, 11:35 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Sorry, I didn't realize you know everything going on inside PBS. Since it's hard for you to understand, I'll say it slower for you. A player knows he needs to get better, so he goes out to get help to improve his game. So the usual people on here take their shots at him? There, got it Sparky?

If you took my original post as PERSONAL, then you have problem. I never pointed anyone out, so how is that personal? Again someone proved my point. "People don't liked to be judged, but have no problem judging other people", There, got it Sparky? Since you know so much, why can't Michael Jordan get better with Willie's help or with Pollock coaching him??????

What a ridiculous post. We’re not allowed to criticize an absolutely terrible player just because he’s trying to get better? Would I find anything negative wrt John Ross in your posting history even after he worked with TJ? Or is this a pick and choose kinda thing (especially if said player went to OSU).

(03-06-2021, 10:26 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't understand the faith in any coach to turn water into wine.

If coaches can't make a difference then why are you always screaming for new coaches.

There are plenty of stories of good NFL players who did not look good their first two seasons.  It is not the general rule, but it isnot impossible like you claim.

I agree with you that there is no way we can count of Jordan as a starter next year.  But I am willing to see if Anderson and Pollack can improve him.

(03-06-2021, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If coaches can't make a difference then why are you always screaming for new coaches.

There are plenty of stories of good NFL players who did not look good their first two seasons.  It is not the general rule, but it isnot impossible like you claim.

I agree with you that there is no way we can count of Jordan as a starter next year.  But I am willing to see if Anderson and Pollack can improve him.

I think Jordan can def improve... the guy can’t get worse even if he tried