I think a DL with Hendrickson/Reader/Malcolm Brown (who I also think they're targeting)/ and Hubbard is definitely an upgraded DL. Add in backups of Tupou/Wren/draft picks and others and I love what they're doing. NO Saints Defense was one of the best last year. If they pluck 2 of their DL to play for the Bengals, how is that not an upgrade for the defense?!
Say what you want, but his numbers were way better than Lawsons for about the same price. 13.5 sacks last year!! AND, no injury history!
If he's not on the field he can't rush the passer. I'll take this as an upgrade signing and we'll see if he can win us some ballgames when we have the lead late in games. Edge rusher down, now (2) OL and a WR left to go!! Lol

(03-16-2021, 12:34 AM)Whatever Wrote: What's interesting is another Next Gen Stats tweet says Lawson has a 12.3% career pressure rate.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1371640798354272259?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3ANextGenStats%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnextgenstats.nfl.com%2F

Hendrickson had a 16.3% pressure rate last year.

Where did you see that?

2020
-----
Lawson pressure rate 14.6%  #5
Hendrickson pressure rate 13.3% #17

https://www.bigblueview.com/2021/2/17/22276465/nfl-free-agency-2021-sack-numbers-dont-tell-carl-lawsons-whole-story

(03-16-2021, 12:36 AM)bfine32 Wrote: That team that really loves their QB let their starting Center walk. I see where he only gave up 11 pressures and 0 sacks last year. 

Yup. 13 total pressures, including 2 sacks, over the last 2 years on 1,177 pass snaps. 

While Hendrickson is a downgrade from Lawson and his contract is stupid purely bc they should’ve just matched the Jets offer to Lawson he has been healthy and if we find another edge guy could definitely be productive. It was forsure a panic singing bc they lost out on Carl.

I’d love for us to sign Mike Hilton as he’s an upgrade over Alexander even though i love Mack.

We’ll still need another CB and obviously we need to address the OL and Sewell is 100% our best option if available.

Dream scenario is we add Curtis Samuel as an extra weapon but this team has a ton of holes they need to fix and losing Cethan Carter is an underrated special teams loss

AJ Green to the Ravens on a three year deal?
Watch him have a pro bowl season now that he is with a division rival.

This hasn't been mentioned but any chance that Cincy signs Reddick as that pure rush End ala Lawson (but preferably cheaper) to compliment Hendrickson?

The eyes imo for today should be on CB’s and guards for bengal targets. Some real quality wave 2/3 guys. Also, don’t be surprised to see them go with a sleeper player/position like Linebacker with Jayon Brown. Could see a 3 year 27 million type of deal with him to replace Josh Bynes. We know we’ve wanted a real steady linebacker for years now.

Names to keep an eye on

WR
John Brown
Curtis Samuel
Josh Reynolds
Keelan Cole

OT
Kelvin Beachhum
Rick Wagner
Rikey Reiff

IOL
Gabe Jackson
Austin Blythe
Trai Turner
Austin Reiter
David Andrews

DT (if we sign one, a geno cut soon follows)
Jurrell Casey
Larry Ogunhobi
Malcolm Brown
Sheldon Rankins

Edge
Hassaan Reddick
Tyus Bowser
Justin Houston

CBS
Shaquill Griffin
Troy Hill
Mike Hilton
Brian Poole

Sleeper
Jayon Brown
BJ Goodson
Gerald Everett

Today and tomorrow are our days. We’ve never been day 1 guys and we all know that. When all that talk about financial flexibility came up in the press conferences, they were referring to today and tomorrow. THIS SHOULD BE OUR SWEET SPOT. Let’s hope we execute whatever plan we have in place and improve the roster. The goal at the end of the day is to field a better football team. As of now we have stayed the same or slightly declined however you want to look at it. We’re in for an eventful day and I’ll try to have another recap like this to go into day 3 if you’d like.

I hope we end up with 2 guards a tackle and dt of a starting quality. Anything else is a bonus

I was looking at the Hendrickson deal and it is really structured as a two-year contract then "we will see". All guarantees get paid out in the first two years hence the higher salary cap hit this year, but it does give the Bengals the ability to pull the ripcord if he was a one-year wonder. I feel a little better about the deal after seeing the details just because you are buying on the upside but aren't stuck.

(03-16-2021, 12:27 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Not excited about this. Would rather have Lawson. Basically downgraded at the position.

Maybe, or maybe Lawson has another season where he cannot finish. He's been healthy one whole year.

(03-16-2021, 12:56 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: You’re right. We could have paid the same money to keep a guy who was a big part of our team which was last in sacks. Instead we went out and got a big ticket item at a position of need from another team.

It doesn’t seem like you’re interested in discussion and only want to be sarcastic, but I would like to offer a legitimate answer as to why I’m not thrilled about this.

We are in the exact same spot, except slightly worse. A big reason as to why Lawson didn’t have big sack numbers is because no one else on the defense can rush the passer. He was the only one creating consistent pressure. Lawson on a defense with other competent pass rushers should have high sack numbers.

Hendrickson created lower amounts of pressure, but had higher sack totals because there were other pass rushers around him. If you remove Hendrickson and his 13.5 sacks from the equation, the Saints are still 19th in the league in sacks and nearly double what we had.

It isn’t a move that improves the team. At best, it is a lateral move and I believe it is a downgrade to the position.

(03-16-2021, 01:55 AM)TSwigZ Wrote: While Hendrickson is a downgrade from Lawson and his contract is stupid purely bc they should’ve just matched the Jets offer to Lawson he has been healthy and if we find another edge guy could definitely be productive. It was forsure a panic singing bc they lost out on Carl.

Not hacking on Lawson because I liked him, but to say he's been healthy is gilding the lilly. Lawson has been healthy one year in the NFL. If the Bengals did not want to sign him with a bunch of guaranteed money due to his injury history, I can't say I blame them. After the 1st 2 years, Hendrickson's contract is mostly incentive based.

(03-16-2021, 01:55 AM)TSwigZ Wrote: While Hendrickson is a downgrade from Lawson and his contract is stupid purely bc they should’ve just matched the Jets offer to Lawson he has been healthy and if we find another edge guy could definitely be productive. It was forsure a panic singing bc they lost out on Carl.

I’d love for us to sign Mike Hilton as he’s an upgrade over Alexander even though i love Mack.

We’ll still need another CB and obviously we need to address the OL and Sewell is 100% our best option if available.

Dream scenario is we add Curtis Samuel as an extra weapon but this team has a ton of holes they need to fix and losing Cethan Carter is an underrated special teams loss

Is he a clear downgrade from Lawson? I’m not really sure.

(03-16-2021, 08:05 AM)Au165 Wrote: I was looking at the Hendrickson deal and it is really structured as a two-year contract then "we will see". All guarantees get paid out in the first two years hence the higher salary cap hit this year, but it does give the Bengals the ability to pull the ripcord if he was a one-year wonder. I feel a little better about the deal after seeing the details just because you are buying on the upside but aren't stuck.

We do that a lot to give ourselfs outs and options come later seasons...

But this was kinda of weird first target.

(03-16-2021, 08:43 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Is he a clear downgrade from Lawson? I’m not really sure.

Hendrickson is a 1st team All Pro ascending in his career. Lawson is good but struggles to stay on the field. I guess that's kind of a downgrade....

(03-16-2021, 08:47 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Hendrickson is a 1st team All Pro ascending in his career. Lawson is good but struggles to stay on the field. I guess that's kind of a downgrade....

Not to nitpick, but he wasn't an All-Pro. No one refers to the PFWA "All-Pro" team when talking about guys who are All-Pro. Hendrickson wasn't 1st or 2nd team of the AP All-Pro team, the one recognized by basically everyone. 

(03-16-2021, 08:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: Not to nitpick, but he wasn't an All-Pro. No one refers to the PFWA "All-Pro" team when talking about guys who are All-Pro. Hendrickson wasn't 1st or 2nd team of the AP All-Pro team, the one recognized by basically everyone. 

I was wondering where the All Pro talk was coming from. PFWA is a big one though.

(03-16-2021, 08:55 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I was wondering where the All Pro talk was coming from. PFWA is a big one though.

Not really. The NFL itself recognizes the AP as the actual "All-Pro" selections, hence why the NFL website lists AP All Pro's as the All Pro teams. It's better than a random dude's website saying a guy is "All-Pro" but it isn't what people are talking about when they use the term.

(03-16-2021, 01:27 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Where did you see that?

2020
-----
Lawson pressure rate 14.6%  #5
Hendrickson pressure rate 13.3% #17

https://www.bigblueview.com/2021/2/17/22276465/nfl-free-agency-2021-sack-numbers-dont-tell-carl-lawsons-whole-story

https://mobile.twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1371648727589478404

The interesting thing about Next Gen Stats is they are based on GPS tracking information, so no human judgement is involved.

(03-16-2021, 09:01 AM)Whatever Wrote: https://mobile.twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1371648727589478404

The interesting thing about Next Gen Stats is they are based on GPS tracking information, so no human judgement is involved.

They also don't discriminate on the play type which is part of the issue. For instance, PFF doesn't count pressures off screen passes because they are intentionally letting the guys come through unblocked whereas Next Gen counts those pressures all the same.