(12-29-2020, 06:25 PM)Whatever Wrote: The last two SB winners were in the bottom half of the league in defense.  

It's a bit silly to expect a second year QB to carry the offense.  We all hope that Burrow can become a Tom Brady and make due with no name skill guys, but he isn't there yet.  He might never hit that stage, either.  

(12-29-2020, 05:59 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You do need a good defense, but I am going to place more value on a secondary player than a linebacker. The idea is if you give Burrow special weapons around him, when you believe he is a special QB, you have the potential to get special results. 

(12-29-2020, 06:43 PM)Synric Wrote: The way Penn State used Parsons reminds me of how Devin White was used at LSU. He was used to attack downhill. Which is how he should be used for at least his first year in the NFL.

(12-29-2020, 07:09 PM)J24 Wrote: If he is a special QB he is going to get special results no matter who is around him. We don't need a third WR in the first RD to make that happen. Look at what Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady have done with their careers not elite supporting casts on offense.

(12-29-2020, 07:27 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Aaron Rodgers has had consistently good receivers. Between Jennings, Driver, Nelson, and Adams, he always had great targets out wide. I'm not making an argument for Chase, necessarily, I would like offensive line. Looking at Brady and his career consistency, he has usually had great offensive lines and that has been an enabler for Brady. Throw in the fact that he had Rob for nine seasons, who is arguably the most dominant TE in NFL history, he was able to make things work. I would love to give Burrow that kind of protection and give him all day to throw to Boyd and Tee because I think those two guys are really talented. I would love to give him a TE, but if we can get OL value for Burrow, I will take that all day.

I am simply saying that the value you are going to get from a player like Chase is likely going to be greater than from a player like Parsons. 

(12-29-2020, 07:27 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Aaron Rodgers has had consistently good receivers. Between Jennings, Driver, Nelson, and Adams, he always had great targets out wide. I'm not making an argument for Chase, necessarily, I would like offensive line. Looking at Brady and his career consistency, he has usually had great offensive lines and that has been an enabler for Brady. Throw in the fact that he had Rob for nine seasons, who is arguably the most dominant TE in NFL history, he was able to make things work. I would love to give Burrow that kind of protection and give him all day to throw to Boyd and Tee because I think those two guys are really talented. I would love to give him a TE, but if we can get OL value for Burrow, I will take that all day.

I am simply saying that the value you are going to get from a player like Chase is likely going to be greater than from a player like Parsons. 

(12-29-2020, 04:47 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think you can get bigger impact players at that slot. Parsons is incredibly talented, but who is going to have a bigger impact; Parsons, or Chase? With the league becoming more offense oriented, a top WR (or TE, for that matter) is likely going to move the needle more than a top LBer, especially given that we have our young QB of the future. It is attractive to add more talent around him, whether it be OL or weapons. 

I am not 100% opposed, I do want to say that. I just think you can get more impact out of another position.

(12-29-2020, 05:59 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: You do need a good defense, but I am going to place more value on a secondary player than a linebacker. The idea is if you give Burrow special weapons around him, when you believe he is a special QB, you have the potential to get special results. 

(12-29-2020, 10:37 PM)samhain Wrote: I'd be fine with Parsons over anyone but Penei.  Would I rather have a corner, under tackle, or edge rusher at 6?  Ideally, yes.  Unfortunately. I don't really see a corner or DL worth taking at 5 or 6.  I think Parsons is the biggest impact player on defense that's going to be available.

Our linebackers are better than they were when they were running Brown and Vigil out there, but are they so good that you'd pass on a player like Parsons?  I think Wilson has a big future ahead of him.  Pratt is one-dimensional (good in coverage), and ADG is obviously still adjusting to the league.  Frankly, he's been a bit of a disappointment.  

I'd be fairly excited about a defense that had Reader, Parsons/Wilson, and Bell/Bates solidifying the middle.  That would be a tough group to run on, and the linebackers are athletic enough to (gasp) possibly even cover TEs.  

I'm not ride or die with Parsons, but I think it would be a good decision.

(12-29-2020, 11:34 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Agree when u look what we have at top end of LB and WR .. LB is a bigger need and then u think about what Cleveland and Baltimore did too us on the ground especially Browns the two best games of Burrow and lost both. We might win both with Parson
 

(12-29-2020, 07:09 PM)J24 Wrote: If he is a special QB he is going to get special results no matter who is around him. We don't need a third WR in the first RD to make that happen. Look at what Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady have done with their careers not elite supporting casts on offense.

(12-29-2020, 11:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: GB has failed to give Rodgers another elite weapon since Adams. And they haven’t won a Super Bowl since they had Nelson and Driver. They felt taking a QB in the 1st round was more important than giving their HoF QB another WR while their window was still open. Doesn’t make much sense to me. Imagine Rodgers throwing to Higgins or Claypool...

Brady had Gronk and Moss in his best years. Yes they won Super Bowl’s without them, but having Bill Belichick certainly helps with that. And expecting any QB to do what Brady has done is some pretty immense expectations.

(12-30-2020, 12:08 AM)samhain Wrote: I'm not against getting weapons for Burrow, but I think the beauty of a quarterback like him is his ability to make do with good-not-great receivers.  He throws guys open, and he does it with the Mike Thomases and Auden Tates of the world.  It isn't fair to compare him to Brady, but their games are similar in terms of what makes them effective.  Neither made their name by being cannon-arm deep ball quarterbacks, although they aren't incapable of throwing deep.  They are excellent at "NFL throws". ie 10-15 yard passes in traffic, in the middle of the field.  Frankly, that's what I think is special about him.  His field vision and the way he goes through progressions, coupled with ball placement are what make defenses fear him, not his ability to smoke them deep.

Looking at Higgins and Boyd, I'm just not sure WR is a huge need anyway.  I'd try and get a speed guy in the middle rounds OR sign a guy in the 8 mil range in FA to round out the group.  Someone like Marvin Jones or Cooks if he's released.  

I love the idea of Chase here as much as anyone, but it just feels irresponsible and Mike Brown-ish at the end of the day.  He's the Ferrari when we need a F-250.  Burrow needs time and linemen to give it to him, not to mention keep him on the field.  He also needs a defense that can hold teams under 30 so he's not out there slinging it 60 times a game with the opposing team's front seven coming in hot for the entire second half.

(12-29-2020, 11:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: GB has failed to give Rodgers another elite weapon since Adams. And they haven’t won a Super Bowl since they had Nelson and Driver. They felt taking a QB in the 1st round was more important than giving their HoF QB another WR while their window was still open. Doesn’t make much sense to me. Imagine Rodgers throwing to Higgins or Claypool...

Brady had Gronk and Moss in his best years. Yes they won Super Bowl’s without them, but having Bill Belichick certainly helps with that. And expecting any QB to do what Brady has done is some pretty immense expectations.

(12-30-2020, 12:08 AM)samhain Wrote: I'm not against getting weapons for Burrow, but I think the beauty of a quarterback like him is his ability to make do with good-not-great receivers.  He throws guys open, and he does it with the Mike Thomases and Auden Tates of the world.  It isn't fair to compare him to Brady, but their games are similar in terms of what makes them effective.  Neither made their name by being cannon-arm deep ball quarterbacks, although they aren't incapable of throwing deep.  They are excellent at "NFL throws". ie 10-15 yard passes in traffic, in the middle of the field.  Frankly, that's what I think is special about him.  His field vision and the way he goes through progressions, coupled with ball placement are what make defenses fear him, not his ability to smoke them deep.

Looking at Higgins and Boyd, I'm just not sure WR is a huge need anyway.  I'd try and get a speed guy in the middle rounds OR sign a guy in the 8 mil range in FA to round out the group.  Someone like Marvin Jones or Cooks if he's released.  

I love the idea of Chase here as much as anyone, but it just feels irresponsible and Mike Brown-ish at the end of the day.  He's the Ferrari when we need a F-250.  Burrow needs time and linemen to give it to him, not to mention keep him on the field.  He also needs a defense that can hold teams under 30 so he's not out there slinging it 60 times a game with the opposing team's front seven coming in hot for the entire second half.

(12-30-2020, 01:01 AM)J24 Wrote: It's kinda of hard to argue with what GB is doing right now. They went to the NFC championship last season and their one win away from controlling home field for the entire playoffs. Also Aaron is having another MVP season,  they went and signed two defensive studs last off season, and drafted a premier CB in Alexander in 2018. So they clearly have invested in their defense.

Brady doesn't beat Manning without the defenses he had in the 2000s. Also he hasn't won a superbowl without a top 10 scoring defense. So yeah did Brady have a elite players around him on offense  but he also had is share of great defenses. Which we are know where close

Burrow has a pretty good supporting cast Jonah(LT), Tee(Wr), Boyd(slot), and Mixon(RB) who already are or  probably will be top 10 players at their positions.

The defense has one guy under contract for 2021 in Bates that is top 10 at his position right now. So investing in defense over offense at this time is the smart thing to do. Now if they were to resign Jackson, Lawson, and add a guy like Leonard Williams at DT then let's talk offense weapons during the draft but right now the focus should be on defense or offensive line. Not skilled positions.

(12-29-2020, 11:37 PM)QueenCity Wrote: AFC North is typically won on the ground... sans Steelers this year. 

Having a stud LB to fill those gaps would be HUGE.  

None of the AFC North QB's outside of Burrow makes people fear them in the air.   Lets stop the run.

(12-30-2020, 01:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Reader is top 10 at his position. And they just spent a fortune on him, Waynes, and Bell this past offseason. The majority of our biggest free agency ever went towards defense.