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+--- Thread: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's (/thread-8311.html)
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - SHRacerX - 10-16-2016
(10-15-2016, 10:39 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: You say that, but both have better records than Marvin. Fox has a career winning percentage of .550 and has taken two teams to the Super Bowl. Caldwell has a career winning percentage of .541, has two playoff wins, and a Super Bowl appearance. Marvin is sitting at .540 and as we all know, not a single playoff win.
I said that in reference to Marvin, not the list. That he is properly ranked below those coaches that were similarly conservative and clueless.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - SHRacerX - 10-16-2016
(10-15-2016, 01:35 PM)J24 Wrote: Fox has been to two Superbowls one with Jake delhone as qb.
And despite having great rosters at a number of team, he never won a Super Bowl...might be as conservative as Marv.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - TGISunday - 10-16-2016
Great work, Shake.
My only complaint is taking the coach's long ago record into a current account of their rank. There's no perfect system, or cutoff, but there's no way in hell Pagano is better than Carroll, for example.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - rfaulk34 - 10-16-2016
(10-16-2016, 12:35 PM)TGISunday Wrote: Great work, Shake.
My only complaint is taking the coach's long ago record into a current account of their rank. There's no perfect system, or cutoff, but there's no way in hell Pagano is better than Carroll, for example.
He was extremely fortunate to play a badly injured Chiefs and Bengals team, and a team with a gimpy Peyton Manning for playoff wins and he wrapped up a few division titles in the AFC Sucks...errrr, South.
The healthy Baltimores and Patriots spanked his teams around.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - fredtoast - 10-17-2016
(10-14-2016, 05:34 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I'm intrigued to see your system.
I don't have time to do a full ranking system, but this will give you an idea of how I would rank Marvin.
13th in regular season winning percentage. (.537)
12th in percentage of seasons making the playoffs. (.538)
11th in average finish in division (2.2)
18th in playoff victories. (4 ahead of him have just 1)
Don't know how you can look at all those numbers and somehow claim Marvin is only the 20th best HC in the NFL. Looks to me like he is clearly in the top half.
I also think it is important to give more weight to what a coach has done recently than what happened many years ago. It has been 13 years since Jeff Fisher won a playoff game and 8 years since he even had a winning season. I hope none of you think he is currently a better coach than Marvin
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - Shake n Blake - 10-17-2016
(10-16-2016, 12:35 PM)TGISunday Wrote: Great work, Shake.
My only complaint is taking the coach's long ago record into a current account of their rank. There's no perfect system, or cutoff, but there's no way in hell Pagano is better than Carroll, for example.
Thanks. As I said in the OP, this is not meant as a ranking of how good a coach is. It's a way of rating what they've accomplished through their careers. For the most part, I think the list is pretty accurate. Sure, I'd take Carroll over Pagano, but Carroll is only 1 spot behind. And if you look at their accomplishments, it's pretty close. Pagano has had a couple deep playoff runs and division titles in 3 years. It really inflated his rating. Pagano has yet to have several down years to even out his rating like Carroll has. After this year, I have no doubt that Pagano will fall behind Carroll.
@Fred's latest attempt to discredit the list: I would agree that Marv > Fisher over the last few years, but there's no doubt their careers are similar. Fisher had some very good years with McNair and even Vince Young. That was followed by a bunch of mediocrity. Marv had a bunch of mediocrity followed by some really good regular seasons (no playoff wins). Not seeing much difference.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - fredtoast - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 01:32 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: @Fred's latest attempt to discredit the list: I would agree that Marv > Fisher over the last few years, but there's no doubt their careers are similar. Fisher had some very good years with McNair and even Vince Young. That was followed by a bunch of mediocrity. Marv had a bunch of mediocrity followed by some really good regular seasons (no playoff wins). Not seeing much difference.
Marvin has as many winning season in the last 7 years as Fisher has in his entire 21 year career as a head coach.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - Brownshoe - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 03:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has as many winning season in the last 7 years as Fisher has in his entire 21 year career as a head coach.
Marvin was also carried by his coordinators. How many coordinators did Fisher have that went on to win their division and one of them is arguably the HC of the best team in the league when they were crap when he first got there a couple of years ago. Marvin Lewis is ranked correctly on this list.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - OrlandoBengal - 10-17-2016
(10-15-2016, 01:57 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I agree. That's why i always disagree when people talk about how average he was in Cleveland. I'm not saying he wouldn't have success, or wouldn't have SB ring(s). I just don't think he would have the same level of success without the HOF qb (obviously).
I think this is true in many circumstances though. What about Bill Walsh without Montana?
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - Shake n Blake - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 03:33 PM)::fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has as many winning season in the last 7 years as Fisher has in his entire 21 year career as a head coach.
Fisher has 5 playoff wins and a Super Bowl run on his resume. Marvin has...0-7.
Kinda evens that out.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - JumboTron - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 04:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fisher has 5 playoff wins and a Super Bowl run on his resume. Marvin has...0-7.
Kinda evens that out.
Game. Set. Match.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - fredtoast - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 03:39 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Marvin was also carried by his coordinators. How many coordinators did Fisher have that went on to win their division and one of them is arguably the HC of the best team in the league when they were crap when he first got there a couple of years ago. Marvin Lewis is ranked correctly on this list.
Marvin has never had a coordinator that was a head coach who had won a division before coming to the Bengals. Zimmer has Norv Turner who has won 4 division titles.
Zimmer was a DC 8 years with only 2 winning seasons before coming to the Bengals and learning under Marvin.
And finally, the Vikings made the playoffs in 2012 just two years before Zimmer took over. Overall the Vikings had made the playoffs 3 times in the 6 years before Zimmer arrived. That team was in much better shape than the Bengals team Marvin inherited (zero winning seasons in 13 years)
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - fredtoast - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 04:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Fisher has 5 playoff wins and a Super Bowl run on his resume. Marvin has...0-7.
Kinda evens that out.
(10-17-2016, 04:48 PM)JumboTron Wrote: Game. Set. Match.
You are both wrong.
If Fisher is a better coach than Marvin then why has he not had a single winning season in 8 years? Why has he not won a playoff game in 13 years? I have been repeatedly told that talent doesn't matter because good coaches overcome less talent and win anyway.
Anyone who would argue that Fisher is a better coach than Marvin right now really does not understand how the NFL works.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - JumboTron - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 05:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are both wrong.
If Fisher is a better coach than Marvin then why has he not had a single winning season in 8 years? Why has he not won a playoff game in 13 years? I have been repeatedly told that talent doesn't matter because good coaches overcome less talent and win anyway.
Anyone who would argue that Fisher is a better coach than Marvin right now really does not understand how the NFL works.
When is the last time Marvin has won anything of merit ever in the history of his tenure as a HC? And so help me God if you say the "AFC North Title" or some random regular season game.
And by the way fred, your tired fall back of "you really don't know how the NFL works" to posters who continuosuly and relentlessly prove you wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt is troublesome. Enough with that.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - Brownshoe - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 05:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin has never had a coordinator that was a head coach who had won a division before coming to the Bengals. Zimmer has Norv Turner who has won 4 division titles.
Zimmer was a DC 8 years with only 2 winning seasons before coming to the Bengals and learning under Marvin.
And finally, the Vikings made the playoffs in 2012 just two years before Zimmer took over. Overall the Vikings had made the playoffs 3 times in the 6 years before Zimmer arrived. That team was in much better shape than the Bengals team Marvin inherited (zero winning seasons in 13 years)
But 6 out of the 7 years that this team had a winning record Marvin has had coaches that became head coaches and a couple of them won their divisions within the first couple of years. Obviously head coaches that have done well at their job isn't going to revert back to being coordinators. I guess that's the only way you can try to spin it. It's a VERY weak spin too, even from you Fred.
The only reason why the Vikings made the playoffs in 2012 was because Peterson had a 2100 yard year. He carried that team on his back. The Vikings were a dumpster fire when Zimmer took over. From 2010-2014 the Vikings had a amazing 24-39-1 record, and that was including their 10-6 record when Peterson had a 2100 yard year. Yeah, that was such a good team LOL
Marvin Lewis has been carried by his coordinators, and now it's a glaring problem that we are being out coached. That's the biggest problem with this team.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - Shake n Blake - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 05:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are both wrong.
If Fisher is a better coach than Marvin then why has he not had a single winning season in 8 years? Why has he not won a playoff game in 13 years? I have been repeatedly told that talent doesn't matter because good coaches overcome less talent and win anyway.
Anyone who would argue that Fisher is a better coach than Marvin right now really does not understand how the NFL works.
Stay with me Fred. Once again, the list isn't saying "who's the best coach right now". It's grading their entire careers and overall success. That's it. Fisher has fallen off, while Marv has ascended somewhat. But overall - at this point - their careers are very similar. That's why Fisher got a 4.2 grade and Marv had a nearly identical 4.1.
Marv has more recent success while Fisher had more past success, particularly in the playoffs. That's why the grades came out similar. If this only included the last 7 years, Marv would be higher, but this includes their entire careers. Hopefully you understand now, although I'm guessing you've understood that all along.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - Wes Mantooth - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 18th in playoff victories. (4 ahead of him have just 1)
Also known as tied for dead last. Only you would go to the lengths o to spin a category that has zero in the number as being tied for 18th.
Wtf?
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - JumboTron - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 05:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Also known as tied for dead last. Only you would go to the lengths o to spin a category that has zero in the number as being tied for 18th.
Wtf?
The man has a complex.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - fredtoast - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 05:38 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Also known as tied for dead last. Only you would go to the lengths o to spin a category that has zero in the number as being tied for 18th.
Wtf?
No spin. Just logic.
The only way to rank a coach is to look at how many are in front of him.
RE: Head coaching grades for all 32 current HC's - Brownshoe - 10-17-2016
(10-17-2016, 05:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No spin. Just logic.
The only way to rank a coach is to look at how many are in front of him.
I know this wasn't supposed to be funny but I about spit up my drink reading this. Not a spin?
