(06-23-2021, 02:37 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Although I like what Zac and Duke have done from a roster standpoint, specifically the types of players they have added through free agency and the draft, and moving on from the old guard...at some point it has to show up on the field and produce winning results.

This team now has a potential (talent wise) top 10 QB, RB and WR corps, an elite S, a much improved D-line and an O-line, that while still not great, should be a lot better than last year. If they can stay relatively healthy (which has been an issue) there are no excuses this season. 

It's on Zac to get wins out of this roster, and not just more than last year...but enough to produce a winning season. If you look at coaches who have started with 5 or less wins in each of their first 2 years since 2000, zero ever produced a winning year and only 18% survived a 3rd season and none made it past a 4th. Those are the odds Zac and the Bengals facing right now. 

Can Zac do what no other coach with his record has been able to over the last 20 years? I think he can and I think he will. I think he breaks that trend and I really feel like the Bengals will win 10 games this season. When you look at the culture he is creating, the types of personalities he's added and the overall chemistry I see this team having as the season plays out...I think it's going to be a fun year. 

I've had plenty of issues with Zac over the course of his first 2 seasons...like hiring Turner, not firing Lou, and his questionable play calling at times and I've often thought that doesn't exactly match his accomplishments...but with all that being said, I also think there are things to be positive and hopeful about like the guys his bring in, the fact that players are seemingly still on board with his plan, the approach in free agency, not being afraid to part ways with guys like Geno, Dunlap, Bernard, etc. I think he's making the right moves in most instances. Now it's time for those moves to pay off on the field...and I honestly think we'll see that this season. 

(06-23-2021, 03:29 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: One of the things Zac has going for him that Shula never really did, is that players seem to like and respect him, and are buying into what he's selling...even though the results haven't been there on the field yet. 

We'll see how things play out, but I think that's important and gives Zac a much better shot than Shula ever had.

(06-25-2021, 08:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Another great point. The players have bought in under Zac unlike Shula...

(06-26-2021, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guarantee that if you went back and looked at the newspapers from the Shula era the players were saying good things about him also.

(06-25-2021, 02:21 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Who's standards do we go by NFL standards if so then there's a reason the rest of the NFL fans think the Bengals suck because we've had 5 shitty seasons.   As far as the money we've spent it's pretty damn significant compared to the previous 15 years under the Marvin Lewis regime.   I'd love to see what the most money spent in free agency was during Marvin's time period.  It couldn't have been that much.  When comparing it to what they've spent over the last 2 off seasons there has to be no comparison. 

I think there's talent on the defensive side of the ball but do i think we're deep on that side? No.  Our LB corp is young and slim.  One or two injuries and we'll be searching the waiver wire.  The only place on defense I'd say were stacked is the defensive backfield.  However, that's stacked with quite a few cast offs from other organizations.  However, I do like the starting pieces.  

You and I both know this organization is never going to spend all the money they have.  There always going to carry money over to the next NFL season because that's the way they've operated since Paul Brown.  

The more this organization changes and comes into 2021...the more it stays the same and stays in the 80/90's.  

(06-27-2021, 02:07 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Could be, we will see if we keep losing if the players don't go all Dunlap on Zac...

(06-26-2021, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guarantee that if you went back and looked at the newspapers from the Shula era the players were saying good things about him also.

(06-29-2021, 11:01 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Willie has since deleted the tweet (and the subsequent thread), but he and Jevon Langford had VERY disparaging things to say about Shula, about 2-3 years ago.

(06-29-2021, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My point was that they did not say those things when they were playing for Shula.

No matter how bad a coach sucks it is rare for players to rip him publicly while they are playing for him.

(06-29-2021, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My point was that they did not say those things when they were playing for Shula.

No matter how bad a coach sucks it is rare for players to rip him publicly while they are playing for him.

(06-29-2021, 06:26 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Maybe they did, we don't know; Social Media gives them the opportunity to say what they want, but as it never existed in the mid-90s, who knows what was said.

(06-24-2021, 09:21 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Yea our offensive line has sucked for a few years now and guess who hired the coach that coached that offensive line that sucked?  

Isn't the person to hold responsible for hiring that OL coach the reigning head coach?  He had to have a confidence in that OL that he'd turn them into what he wanted.  Yet that OL coach turned them into a pile of shit.  

Yea we let Turner go.  He should've been fired as soon as Burrow went down last season.  However, I don't give Taylor credit for that hire. I give credit to the front office for Pollack being hired due to their previous relationship.  If Taylor is fired this year, them Pollack will still be the OL coach when a new Head Coach is named next year.   That i'll guarantee. 

(07-01-2021, 11:07 AM)Wyche Wrote: Good point on Turner, but the line has been crumbling since 2016. Game 1 in 2016, Dalton was sacked 7 times and still put up 366 yds and we squeaked out a win against NYJ. By the end of that year, 14 was shell shocked and went downhill from there on. So did the line. Turner was a bum, no doubt. That said, the drafts of Og and Fish set this team back a good 5 years as far as oline play goes. That, coupled with bargain bin FA until the last couple of off-seasons spelled doom for that unit. Not to mention the Price bust.

(07-01-2021, 11:22 AM)TJ528 Wrote: However Wyche, the responsibility for that hire falls on Zac's back.  He's had a personal relationship with the coach and brought him on board and he was so good that he's been fired 2 years later.  

The front office and scouts who drafted Og and Fischer are still in place.  The only one missing is PA.  

I mean if you read this board according to some coaches don't do the drafting the Duke and the scouts do. 

So I guess that's why so many people have doubts about our ability to draft OL even with brining on Pollack.  

(07-01-2021, 11:33 AM)Wyche Wrote: Oh yeah, don't mistake my point for an overwhelming support of Zac. I should've been more specific in regards to agreeing with you about Turner. That's 100% on Zac. So are a lot of other issues.

My point was, and still is, that unit was an absolute dumpster fire when he got here. I blame the FO, because Marvin had a great line from 2011-2015 that he helped assemble. The team didn't do very well maintaining it. Nor did they do him any favors when the stellar oline he inherited started to falter. 

With the secrecy that shrouds the operation of this franchise, it's hard to say who does what. That said, I don't believe the drafts fall squarely on the coaches. I can't imagine Marvin was very happy with the John Ross pick.

(07-01-2021, 11:37 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Dude that units been a dumpster fire since they let Whit leave.  One thing this organization has proven is they can't draft a competent OL.  

As far as Jonah get back to me at the end of the 2021 season and we'll see if he can play a 16 game season.  

I think he's a good player but I just don't think he can hold up in a 17 game season now, not including the Playoffs and Pre-Season.

(07-01-2021, 11:45 AM)Wyche Wrote: That's been the knock on Jonah, for sure. All the tangibles and intangibles are there. I don't think he ever missed much time, if any, at Bama? Just our luck, right? I have an older brother that coaches oline in high school, and we both played oline, he was actually a LT all the way through college.... doesn't make us experts, obviously....I still remember the text he sent me on that draft night "best pick of the first round!". He's die hard Raider nation too. Dammit it's rough being a Bengals fan...lol

(06-26-2021, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guarantee that if you went back and looked at the newspapers from the Shula era the players were saying good things about him also.

(07-01-2021, 12:28 PM)PDub8 Wrote: Silence is deafening. 

(07-01-2021, 03:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Except we don't have silence. In addition to Dunlap talking like Pickens we have also had Darious Phillips and Shawn Williams accusing them of "wasting talent" on social media.