news from OTAs

[PDub80]

(05-29-2021, 10:11 AM)SadFaceBengal15 Wrote: Dalton was one of the worst leaders I’ve ever seen at the qb position.

(05-29-2021, 10:15 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Lol child please.

(05-29-2021, 12:03 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I’m sorry, but how was Andy Dalton soft? Dude took a lot of hits in his career and always got back up. He injured himself tackling a lineman wayyy bigger than him. Soft QBs don’t do that. Soft QBs get out of the way.

I don't think Andy Dalton is a soft player. But, I also don't think the team looked at him the way you need a team to look at your QB to be led by him.

Joe Burrow checks both of those boxes, however.

[fredtoast]

(05-30-2021, 04:32 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't think Andy Dalton is a soft player. But, I also don't think the team looked at him the way you need a team to look at your QB to be led by him.

None of us know 

I have been on teams with "loud" leaders and "quiet" leaders.  Both can be very effective.  

There is nothing wrong with being a loud and fiery leader, but not all of the loud and fiery guys are good leaders.  And not all of the qiet guys are poor leaders.

Leaders earn their respect during practice and meetings as much as on the sidelines in front of the cameras.

[Wes Mantooth]

I really don't think it's fair at all to question Andy Dalton's leadership abilities.  And fwiw, this is coming from someone that wasn't always his biggest supporter.

First of all, we see so very little of what is actually going on.  We don't see what's going on in practice, or in the locker room, or in the weight room, or in the film room, or anything else.  Even though we watch the games and are able to see the huddle, we aren't able to hear the words spoken.  We don't get to see the examples set, we don't get to see much of hard work being done.  We know so very little about the relationships these players develop, both on and off the field.

So how can we possibly know for sure what kind of leader someone is?  Because they're not animated?  Because they don't yell at people?  Cuz that to me seems silly.  There's a ton of different ways to lead.  I can think of plenty of great QB's who weren't fiery, or intense, or had swag, or any number of others bs terms fans and media people attatch to the players.

All I know about Andy Dalton is this: I've never heard a single bad thing a teammate has said about him.  Not one.  Not in college, not in the Pros, not in his 10+ years playing this game.

What I have heard is that he was a hard worker, he was supportive, he's charitable, he's generally a good person.  Some of these things I've even seen myself, with my own eyes, in addition to hearing these descriptions second hand.

So I'm sorry.  I think it's bs when people pretend to know what kind of leader Andy Dalton is.  I mean, if you want to critique his play then that's one thing, that's fair.  But how can you pretend to know that he was a terrible leader?  By what measurement are you coming to this conclusion?

Fwiw, My thinking above can be directly applied to Carson Palmer as well.  Never heard a single bad thing about him from a coach or a teammate.  Much like Andy, I've never heard him throw a teammate under the bus or publicly rip a coach.  All I've heard from people in the know is good things.

I really wish we would stop trying to overanalyze this stuff.  This guy isn't a leader because he didn't have swag, this guy is a great leader because he does have swag, or because he shows more emotion.  This is all bs that is clueless speculation.  Unless you hear about a guy not having a great work ethic, or he doesn't know the playbook, or he's involved in off the field distractions, or teammates call him out, what do you really know?

Just because a guy doesn't win a Superbowl doesn't mean he's a shitty leader, and just because he does doesn't mean he's a good one either.  You can strictly judge this off of W/L and how animated the guy is the 60 minutes you see him in his 40 hour work week.

/endrant

[sandwedge]

(05-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really don't think it's fair at all to question Andy Dalton's leadership abilities.  And fwiw, this is coming from someone that wasn't always his biggest supporter.

First of all, we see so very little of what is actually going on.  We don't see what's going on in practice, or in the locker room, or in the weight room, or in the film room, or anything else.  Even though we watch the games and are able to see the huddle, we aren't able to hear the words spoken.  We don't get to see the examples set, we don't get to see much of hard work being done.  We know so very little about the relationships these players develop, both on and off the field.

So how can we possibly know for sure what kind of leader someone is?  Because they're not animated?  Because they don't yell at people?  Cuz that to me seems silly.  There's a ton of different ways to lead.  I can think of plenty of great QB's who weren't fiery, or intense, or had swag, or any number of others bs terms fans and media people attatch to the players.

All I know about Andy Dalton is this: I've never heard a single bad thing a teammate has said about him.  Not one.  Not in college, not in the Pros, not in his 10+ years playing this game.

What I have heard is that he was a hard worker, he was supportive, he's charitable, he's generally a good person.  Some of these things I've even seen myself, with my own eyes, in addition to hearing these descriptions second hand.

So I'm sorry.  I think it's bs when people pretend to know what kind of leader Andy Dalton is.  I mean, if you want to critique his play then that's one thing, that's fair.  But how can you pretend to know that he was a terrible leader?  By what measurement are you coming to this conclusion?

Fwiw, My thinking above can be directly applied to Carson Palmer as well.  Never heard a single bad thing about him from a coach or a teammate.  Much like Andy, I've never heard him throw a teammate under the bus or publicly rip a coach.  All I've heard from people in the know is good things.

I really wish we would stop trying to overanalyze this stuff.  This guy isn't a leader because he didn't have swag, this guy is a great leader because he does have swag, or because he shows more emotion.  This is all bs that is clueless speculation.  Unless you hear about a guy not having a great work ethic, or he doesn't know the playbook, or he's involved in off the field distractions, or teammates call him out, what do you really know?

Just because a guy doesn't win a Superbowl doesn't mean he's a shitty leader, and just because he does doesn't mean he's a good one either.  You can strictly judge this off of W/L and how animated the guy is the 60 minutes you see him in his 40 hour work week.

/endrant

We don't agree to much on things on here Wes, but you knocked it out of the park here!  I have said this many times, to no avail. You don't need to be a cheerleader to be a leader. These are professional athletes, they should be ready to play every Sunday.

[SladeX]

(05-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really don't think it's fair at all to question Andy Dalton's leadership abilities.  And fwiw, this is coming from someone that wasn't always his biggest supporter.

First of all, we see so very little of what is actually going on.  We don't see what's going on in practice, or in the locker room, or in the weight room, or in the film room, or anything else.  Even though we watch the games and are able to see the huddle, we aren't able to hear the words spoken.  We don't get to see the examples set, we don't get to see much of hard work being done.  We know so very little about the relationships these players develop, both on and off the field.

So how can we possibly know for sure what kind of leader someone is?  Because they're not animated?  Because they don't yell at people?  Cuz that to me seems silly.  There's a ton of different ways to lead.  I can think of plenty of great QB's who weren't fiery, or intense, or had swag, or any number of others bs terms fans and media people attatch to the players.

All I know about Andy Dalton is this: I've never heard a single bad thing a teammate has said about him.  Not one.  Not in college, not in the Pros, not in his 10+ years playing this game.

What I have heard is that he was a hard worker, he was supportive, he's charitable, he's generally a good person.  Some of these things I've even seen myself, with my own eyes, in addition to hearing these descriptions second hand.

So I'm sorry.  I think it's bs when people pretend to know what kind of leader Andy Dalton is.  I mean, if you want to critique his play then that's one thing, that's fair.  But how can you pretend to know that he was a terrible leader?  By what measurement are you coming to this conclusion?

Fwiw, My thinking above can be directly applied to Carson Palmer as well.  Never heard a single bad thing about him from a coach or a teammate.  Much like Andy, I've never heard him throw a teammate under the bus or publicly rip a coach.  All I've heard from people in the know is good things.

I really wish we would stop trying to overanalyze this stuff.  This guy isn't a leader because he didn't have swag, this guy is a great leader because he does have swag, or because he shows more emotion.  This is all bs that is clueless speculation.  Unless you hear about a guy not having a great work ethic, or he doesn't know the playbook, or he's involved in off the field distractions, or teammates call him out, what do you really know?

Just because a guy doesn't win a Superbowl doesn't mean he's a shitty leader, and just because he does doesn't mean he's a good one either.  You can strictly judge this off of W/L and how animated the guy is the 60 minutes you see him in his 40 hour work week.

/endrant

One of the best posts I've ever read...

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-30-2021, 02:47 PM)Stewy Wrote: Replying to ^^^

How quickly we forget that in 2011 no member of these forums predicted we would win more than 7 games, and those were the outliers.  Most fans of these boards had us winning 2-4 games, and then entire world of pundits had us at 4 wins or less AND the worst team in the league.

People either forget or have selective memory.  I wonder which it is.

MANY talking heads said the Bengals would go 0-16.   And I would take the roster on this year's team over the 2011 team every day of the week and twice on Sunday.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-30-2021, 12:07 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Although that team was 1 year removed from a divison title with a good defense and excellent offensive line.

I would still take this roster over that one and it isn't even close.  

[jfkbengals]

(05-30-2021, 02:47 PM)Stewy Wrote: Replying to ^^^

How quickly we forget that in 2011 no member of these forums predicted we would win more than 7 games, and those were the outliers.  Most fans of these boards had us winning 2-4 games, and then entire world of pundits had us at 4 wins or less AND the worst team in the league.

People either forget or have selective memory.  I wonder which it is.

This is true, due to our franchise QB walking away.  No one could have predicted that the 2nd round rookie QB would walk in and be the most prepared of his class to successfully lead a team on the field.  But, as I said, this was a good team that had some bad breaks in 2010 to screw their record.  Had the Panthers, Broncos, or Bills drafted Green instead and then Dalton in the second; does anyone think those teams were in good enough position to make the post season as a result?  I just think we were fortuitous with the timing of Palmer throwing in the towel. 

[2slick]

ok, any news from OTAs?

[SunsetBengal]

(05-31-2021, 10:25 AM)2slick Wrote: ok, any news from OTAs?

Attendance was good, they're over now..

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really don't think it's fair at all to question Andy Dalton's leadership abilities.  And fwiw, this is coming from someone that wasn't always his biggest supporter.

First of all, we see so very little of what is actually going on.  We don't see what's going on in practice, or in the locker room, or in the weight room, or in the film room, or anything else.  Even though we watch the games and are able to see the huddle, we aren't able to hear the words spoken.  We don't get to see the examples set, we don't get to see much of hard work being done.  We know so very little about the relationships these players develop, both on and off the field.

So how can we possibly know for sure what kind of leader someone is?  Because they're not animated?  Because they don't yell at people?  Cuz that to me seems silly.  There's a ton of different ways to lead.  I can think of plenty of great QB's who weren't fiery, or intense, or had swag, or any number of others bs terms fans and media people attatch to the players.

All I know about Andy Dalton is this: I've never heard a single bad thing a teammate has said about him.  Not one.  Not in college, not in the Pros, not in his 10+ years playing this game.

What I have heard is that he was a hard worker, he was supportive, he's charitable, he's generally a good person.  Some of these things I've even seen myself, with my own eyes, in addition to hearing these descriptions second hand.

So I'm sorry.  I think it's bs when people pretend to know what kind of leader Andy Dalton is.  I mean, if you want to critique his play then that's one thing, that's fair.  But how can you pretend to know that he was a terrible leader?  By what measurement are you coming to this conclusion?

Fwiw, My thinking above can be directly applied to Carson Palmer as well.  Never heard a single bad thing about him from a coach or a teammate.  Much like Andy, I've never heard him throw a teammate under the bus or publicly rip a coach.  All I've heard from people in the know is good things.

I really wish we would stop trying to overanalyze this stuff.  This guy isn't a leader because he didn't have swag, this guy is a great leader because he does have swag, or because he shows more emotion.  This is all bs that is clueless speculation.  Unless you hear about a guy not having a great work ethic, or he doesn't know the playbook, or he's involved in off the field distractions, or teammates call him out, what do you really know?

Just because a guy doesn't win a Superbowl doesn't mean he's a shitty leader, and just because he does doesn't mean he's a good one either.  You can strictly judge this off of W/L and how animated the guy is the 60 minutes you see him in his 40 hour work week.

/endrant

Great post.  Dalton might not have given the fans the most spine-tingling chills from some pre-game hype speech, but his team responded to him.  Right from the start, he was a steely-eyed tough SOB.  I will never forget that pass back to him from Sanu.  The DB kind of got caught in no man's land between making a play on the ball and hitting Dalton, but Dalton made a contested catch (a pretty damn athletic one, too) and spun off the guy for a TD. 

I have a lot of good memories of Dalton and I don't put him as the sole reason they never advanced in the playoffs.  Just like Piggy throwing up a 21 QB rating but WINNING the Super Bowl, this is the ultimate team game.  

I will always wonder what could have been in 2015 when the Bengals took Denver to OT IN DENVER with a backup QB, only to see Denver go on and win the Super Bowl.  

Dalton deserves far more praise than criticism, but I understand the human nature is to put all the praise of all the criticism on the QB.  

First class guy, did a lot for the city, and won far more games than Palmer ever did.  Wish him nothing but success (except when they play the Bengals week 2).

[TecmoBengals]

(05-31-2021, 10:25 AM)2slick Wrote: ok, any news from OTAs?

Check out the whole thread, lots of good stuff.

[Whatever]

(05-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really don't think it's fair at all to question Andy Dalton's leadership abilities.  And fwiw, this is coming from someone that wasn't always his biggest supporter.

First of all, we see so very little of what is actually going on.  We don't see what's going on in practice, or in the locker room, or in the weight room, or in the film room, or anything else.  Even though we watch the games and are able to see the huddle, we aren't able to hear the words spoken.  We don't get to see the examples set, we don't get to see much of hard work being done.  We know so very little about the relationships these players develop, both on and off the field.

So how can we possibly know for sure what kind of leader someone is?  Because they're not animated?  Because they don't yell at people?  Cuz that to me seems silly.  There's a ton of different ways to lead.  I can think of plenty of great QB's who weren't fiery, or intense, or had swag, or any number of others bs terms fans and media people attatch to the players.

All I know about Andy Dalton is this: I've never heard a single bad thing a teammate has said about him.  Not one.  Not in college, not in the Pros, not in his 10+ years playing this game.

What I have heard is that he was a hard worker, he was supportive, he's charitable, he's generally a good person.  Some of these things I've even seen myself, with my own eyes, in addition to hearing these descriptions second hand.

So I'm sorry.  I think it's bs when people pretend to know what kind of leader Andy Dalton is.  I mean, if you want to critique his play then that's one thing, that's fair.  But how can you pretend to know that he was a terrible leader?  By what measurement are you coming to this conclusion?

Fwiw, My thinking above can be directly applied to Carson Palmer as well.  Never heard a single bad thing about him from a coach or a teammate.  Much like Andy, I've never heard him throw a teammate under the bus or publicly rip a coach.  All I've heard from people in the know is good things.

I really wish we would stop trying to overanalyze this stuff.  This guy isn't a leader because he didn't have swag, this guy is a great leader because he does have swag, or because he shows more emotion.  This is all bs that is clueless speculation.  Unless you hear about a guy not having a great work ethic, or he doesn't know the playbook, or he's involved in off the field distractions, or teammates call him out, what do you really know?

Just because a guy doesn't win a Superbowl doesn't mean he's a shitty leader, and just because he does doesn't mean he's a good one either.  You can strictly judge this off of W/L and how animated the guy is the 60 minutes you see him in his 40 hour work week.

/endrant

I think a lot of people don't realize that different types of people respond to different types of leadership.  Leadership is not a one size fits all commodity.  Some guys respond to the fiery pep talk guys.  Some respond to guys who lead by example.  Some guys need a drill sergeant.  Some guys need to be encouraged and built up.  

Andy wasn't a bad leader.  He just fell into to the lead by example category.  In fairness to him, he did try to branch out and become more of a fiery pep talk guy, but the results were unfortunately cringeworthy.  He would not have lasted as long as he did and achieved what he did if he was a bad leader, though.  I think he was somewhat fortunate in that the star players we had during his run were also lead by example types and likely to respond to his brand of leadership.  

Teams with great leadership either have several different leaders that can reach a variety of different people or they have individual leaders capable of filling all those different roles.  Tom Brady is maybe the greatest leader in NFL history just because he can be the fiery pep talk guy, the lead by example guy, the drill sergeant, or the guy that builds others up.  I think what excites people about Burrow is you can see similar traits in him.  That doesn't mean Andy was a bad leader, though.  It means Burrow can become a great leader.

Carson also fell into that lead by example category and you will rarely hear any player bash that type of player.  He did have a bunch of players trash him for quitting on the team, however.  When the Bengals played the Raiders in '12, even though Marvin tried to downplay Carson, the Bengals were obviously fired up in a fight filled 34-10 drubbing of the Raiders with fans flying "Winners never quit" banners.  I think Carson gets the benefit of a lot of revisionist history from fans that are frustrated with the FO.  

[*Go Cards*]

(05-30-2021, 02:47 PM)Stewy Wrote: Replying to ^^^

How quickly we forget that in 2011 no member of these forums predicted we would win more than 7 games, and those were the outliers.  Most fans of these boards had us winning 2-4 games, and then entire world of pundits had us at 4 wins or less AND the worst team in the league.

People either forget or have selective memory.  I wonder which it is.

Yep the board even had a huge sig bet with the over under set at 3 or 4 games. 

Kudos to whoever designed that sig that the losers had to rock the rest of the year as well. 

That was the most hideous sig Ive ever seen, well done

[*Go Cards*]

(05-30-2021, 05:00 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I really don't think it's fair at all to question Andy Dalton's leadership abilities.  And fwiw, this is coming from someone that wasn't always his biggest supporter.

First of all, we see so very little of what is actually going on.  We don't see what's going on in practice, or in the locker room, or in the weight room, or in the film room, or anything else.  Even though we watch the games and are able to see the huddle, we aren't able to hear the words spoken.  We don't get to see the examples set, we don't get to see much of hard work being done.  We know so very little about the relationships these players develop, both on and off the field.

So how can we possibly know for sure what kind of leader someone is?  Because they're not animated?  Because they don't yell at people?  Cuz that to me seems silly.  There's a ton of different ways to lead.  I can think of plenty of great QB's who weren't fiery, or intense, or had swag, or any number of others bs terms fans and media people attatch to the players.

All I know about Andy Dalton is this: I've never heard a single bad thing a teammate has said about him.  Not one.  Not in college, not in the Pros, not in his 10+ years playing this game.

What I have heard is that he was a hard worker, he was supportive, he's charitable, he's generally a good person.  Some of these things I've even seen myself, with my own eyes, in addition to hearing these descriptions second hand.

So I'm sorry.  I think it's bs when people pretend to know what kind of leader Andy Dalton is.  I mean, if you want to critique his play then that's one thing, that's fair.  But how can you pretend to know that he was a terrible leader?  By what measurement are you coming to this conclusion?

Fwiw, My thinking above can be directly applied to Carson Palmer as well.  Never heard a single bad thing about him from a coach or a teammate.  Much like Andy, I've never heard him throw a teammate under the bus or publicly rip a coach.  All I've heard from people in the know is good things.

I really wish we would stop trying to overanalyze this stuff.  This guy isn't a leader because he didn't have swag, this guy is a great leader because he does have swag, or because he shows more emotion.  This is all bs that is clueless speculation.  Unless you hear about a guy not having a great work ethic, or he doesn't know the playbook, or he's involved in off the field distractions, or teammates call him out, what do you really know?

Just because a guy doesn't win a Superbowl doesn't mean he's a shitty leader, and just because he does doesn't mean he's a good one either.  You can strictly judge this off of W/L and how animated the guy is the 60 minutes you see him in his 40 hour work week.

/endrant

Until Carson quit and then this changed quickly with a few being outspoken about Carson. 

Great post though

[*pally*]

week 2-All present
-QBs working on 30-40 yard passing (including Joey B)
-Boyd has seen the increase velocity in Joey's throwing...says hands sting
-Jonah Williams loves Frank Pollack “He’s bringing a lot to the table. I really love his coaching.” “He drills technique over and over again.” I think
he saw that I have good athletic traits. He realized so much fine tuning I can do

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2021, 01:59 PM)pally Wrote: week 2-All present
         -QBs working on 30-40 yard passing (including Joey B)
         -Boyd has seen the increase velocity in Joey's throwing...says hands sting
         -Jonah Williams loves Frank Pollack “He’s bringing a lot to the table. I really love his coaching.” “He drills technique over and over again.”  I think
           he saw that I have good athletic traits. He realized so much fine tuning I can do

Thanks Pally, great info and great news.

[*pally*]

(06-01-2021, 01:59 PM)pally Wrote: week 2-All present
         -QBs working on 30-40 yard passing (including Joey B)
         -Boyd has seen the increase velocity in Joey's throwing...says hands sting
         -Jonah Williams loves Frank Pollack “He’s bringing a lot to the table. I really love his coaching.” “He drills technique over and over again.”  I think
           he saw that I have good athletic traits. He realized so much fine tuning I can do

CJ Uzomah says he is a full go.  Agreed that Joey B has increased his velocity and that he likes it.  Says team has great communication  “The communication we have right now I haven’t seen in a long time in my football career in general.”  His vision of a perfect Super Bowl championship includes Joe being hammered and Tyler Boyd shirtless with a bottle of Hennssey

We hear from Trae Waynes for the first time in his official Bengals career-Fresh start. I liked what the coaches had to say. I feel like they really care about the players

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-01-2021, 02:31 PM)pally Wrote: CJ Uzomah says he is a full go.  Agreed that Joey B has increased his velocity and that he likes it.  Says team has great communication  “The communication we have right now I haven’t seen in a long time in my football career in general.”  His vision of a perfect Super Bowl championship includes Joe being hammered and Tyler Boyd shirtless with a bottle of Hennssey

We hear from Trae Waynes for the first time in his official Bengals career-Fresh start. I liked what the coaches had to say. I feel like they really care about the players

Hilarious, I like Uzo better after this lol 

Think he could have a breakout year with Chase now here and the chemistry with Burrow. Chase has the ability to really open up 
the middle of the field as we saw at LSU and the great year Jefferson, Edwards-Helaire and Moss had.

[*Nately120*]

(05-31-2021, 09:37 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Until Carson quit and then this changed quickly with a few being outspoken about Carson. 

Great post though

It's hard to think clearly in the mists of time, but I recall Palmer being a respectable leader and calm field general while the Steelers had that dastardly and troublesome jerkass fatso who disliked laws of consent.