Elephant in the Room

[Shake n Blake]

(11-10-2021, 01:16 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Want some more recent ones?


Kyler Murray - 17 INT’s in his first 19 starts

Josh Allen - 19 INT’s in his first 19 starts


And those are just a couple of the better young QB’s I picked at random. The guy’s point stands. It’s pretty common for QB’s to throw a lot of picks in their first couple seasons.

You can list all the examples you want. Those guys came in rough, throwing picks. Burrow did not. He developed that habit this year. That's what I'm concerned about.

(11-10-2021, 01:17 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: You know what’s impressive though? All those ints, and still top 10 in passer rating

No doubt. I'm not hating on Burrow. Kinda silly I always feel the need to clarify that. He's having a fantastic season even with the picks, but the picks have been costly and they're the only thing keeping him from being possibly the top QB in the league.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-10-2021, 05:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You can list all the examples you want. Those guys came in rough, throwing picks. Burrow did not. He developed that habit this year. That's what I'm concerned about.


No doubt. I'm not hating on Burrow. Kinda silly I always feel the need to clarify that. He's having a fantastic season even with the picks, but the picks have been costly and they're the only thing keeping him from being possibly the top QB in the league.

Yep. If you give him the same number of ints that he had last year at this time, he's #2 with Russell Wilson about ready to fall off due to not having enough passes to qualify.

[samhain]

It's not a good thing. I'd have to see the picks broken down to account for tipped balls, heavy pressure, etc before I got super concerned. Being locked on to Jamarr is certainly one contributor to the issue. I think he can get past that by doing what he did well last year and looking for the open guy rather than just his best receiver.

What worries me a bit more is the possibility that the pressure and the hits are mounting enough to effect his decision making. He didn't have to run scared a lot in college, and he probably was confident enough to think that he could will it into not being a factor at this level. After a major injury and countless nasty shots taken, I really hope that it's not starting to effect the kind of player he is mentally.

[fredtoast]

(11-10-2021, 05:50 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You can list all the examples you want. Those guys came in rough, throwing picks. Burrow did not. He developed that habit this year. That's what I'm concerned about.

Exactly.  This is the point i keep making.

And I don't see it as bashing Burrow.  In fact it is the opposite.  Instead of hoping and praying that he will improve with age/experience and possibly reduce his interception percentage I am saying that we already 100% know for sure he can do it.

It doesn't really matter how many good QBs threw a lot of interceptions their first year because I can make a very long list of very shitty QBs who threw a lot of interceptions their first season.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

It's definitely concerning....in my eyes, his INTs, coupled with Higgins' fumble lost the game in Chicago. We got outclassed against Cleveland, but his picks certainly didn't help matters. Trying to do too much, perhaps?

[*jason*]

(11-11-2021, 01:49 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It's definitely concerning....in my eyes, his INTs, coupled with Higgins' fumble lost the game in Chicago. We got outclassed against Cleveland, but his picks certainly didn't help matters. Trying to do too much, perhaps?

It can also be argued that his late pick against the Jets cost us that game. The pick on the first play of OT vs Green Bay certainly didn't help our chances of winning that one either. He's throwing costly picks.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-11-2021, 03:02 PM)jason Wrote: It can also be argued that his late pick against the Jets cost us that game. The pick on the first play of OT vs Green Bay certainly didn't help our chances of winning that one either. He's throwing costly picks.

True dat. The defense was so bad in NY, that I really didn't think about adding that one to the tally, but you make a good point. Missed kicks contributed to our loss against GB, but that was indeed a terrible time to throw one. I feel like he kinda single handedly cost us the Bears game.

[*jason*]

(11-11-2021, 03:40 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: True dat. The defense was so bad in NY, that I really didn't think about adding that one to the tally, but you make a good point. Missed kicks contributed to our loss against GB, but that was indeed a terrible time to throw one. I feel like he kinda single handedly cost us the Bears game.

I'm still under the impression Joe Burrow is gonna win us more games than he loses us. He just needs to clean it up. It's almost like he's trying to do too much. Sometimes bein' uber confident is a double edge sword.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-11-2021, 08:07 PM)jason Wrote: I'm still under the impression Joe Burrow is gonna win us more games than he loses us. He just needs to clean it up. It's almost like he's trying to do too much. Sometimes bein' uber confident is a double edge sword.

Yeah, me too....and that's why I pondered if he was trying to do too much at the end of my initial post. Like I said, I think that only one game was lost due to his picks ....the others were a group effort.

[*rfaulk34*]

I wonder if Baltimore is going to fall apart because the Ravens lost to the 2-7 Dolphins?

[*jason*]

(11-12-2021, 01:47 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I wonder if Baltimore is going to fall apart because the Ravens lost to the 2-7 Dolphins?

Lawd!!!! Who was on the mound for Miami?

Oops... I read that wrong. I thought they lost 7 - 2.

[TecmoBengals]

(11-12-2021, 01:47 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I wonder if Baltimore is going to fall apart because the Ravens lost to the 2-7 Dolphins?

No, because they've won Super Bowls during the current life span of many of their fans & didn't experience a decade of losing like the Bengals with Shula, Coslet, and LeBeau. Their fans have positive reasons to place trust in the Ravens franchise.  

That said,  ! I love you Burrow. 

[GreenCornBengal]

Burrow needs a real off-season. He hasn’t had one and I’m excited by how much better he will be after one.

While rehabbing, he said he wanted to work on ball velocity and the deep ball. Low and behold, he’s been one of the best (if not the best) deep ball thrower in the nfl this year. When he puts his mind to something, you see results.

He’s gone from National Championship, to draft, to pandemic, to rookie season, to rehab, to season 2…. He’s had 0 time to reflect and digest. My biggest hope is that we make it through this season unscathed so that he can enjoy and benefit from a few months off. He needs it and knowing Burrow he will come back even better.

[TecmoBengals]

(11-12-2021, 10:33 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: He’s gone from National Championship, to draft, to pandemic, to rookie season, to rehab, to season 2…. He’s had 0 time to reflect and digest. My biggest hope is that we make it through this season unscathed so that he can enjoy and benefit from a few months off. He needs it and knowing Burrow he will come back even better.

Exceptional point, Burrow's NFL career is thus far one of adversity. Hopefully it contributes to his overall professional growth as an up and coming, elite NFL QB. 

[Bengalholic]

(11-11-2021, 08:07 PM)jason Wrote: I'm still under the impression Joe Burrow is gonna win us more games than he loses us. He just needs to clean it up. It's almost like he's trying to do too much. Sometimes bein' uber confident is a double edge sword.

There are definitely times where he's tries to force things or make something happen off-script. so that's definitely a part of it. At other times, he's had some bad luck with defenders making good plays on tipped passes. 

Another interesting factor is that he leads the league in 'aggressive passing' which are throws into tight coverage / small windows. This stat usually reflects a combination of some poor / reckless decisions by the QB and some poor routes / separation by the receivers. Nine of his 11 picks have come when he's targeting Boyd and Chase, and Higgins has a ton of contested balls so far. 

Joe's got to be more consistent with his decision making no doubt, but the receivers are going to have to step up their games as well. You can't depend on the big play all the time. There's been far too many 3 and outs and inconsistency during the first 9 games. 

Having said all that, I'm expecting the offense to take a huge step over these next 8 games. The truth is, while they've had some huge plays and exciting performances...neither Burrow or the offense as a whole has played their best football yet.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-12-2021, 10:33 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Burrow needs a real off-season. He hasn’t had one and I’m excited by how much better he will be after one.

While rehabbing, he said he wanted to work on ball velocity and the deep ball. Low and behold, he’s been one of the best (if not the best) deep ball thrower in the nfl this year. When he puts his mind to something, you see results.

He’s gone from National Championship, to draft, to pandemic, to rookie season, to rehab, to season 2…. He’s had 0 time to reflect and digest. My biggest hope is that we make it through this season unscathed so that he can enjoy and benefit from a few months off. He needs it and knowing Burrow he will come back even better.

Great post. This will definitely hamper your growth as an NFL QB and I think this is what we are seeing.

And he still has played extremely well besides the INT's this season so far.

(11-12-2021, 11:41 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Exceptional point, Burrow's NFL career is thus far one of adversity. Hopefully it contributes to his overall professional growth as an up and coming, elite NFL QB. 

[*jason*]

(11-12-2021, 06:16 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: There are definitely times where he's tries to force things or make something happen off-script. so that's definitely a part of it. At other times, he's had some bad luck with defenders making good plays on tipped passes. 

Another interesting factor is that he leads the league in 'aggressive passing' which are throws into tight coverage / small windows. This stat usually reflects a combination of some poor / reckless decisions by the QB and some poor routes / separation by the receivers. Nine of his 11 picks have come when he's targeting Boyd and Chase, and Higgins has a ton of contested balls so far. 

Joe's got to be more consistent with his decision making no doubt, but the receivers are going to have to step up their games as well. You can't depend on the big play all the time. There's been far too many 3 and outs and inconsistency during the first 9 games. 

Having said all that, I'm expecting the offense to take a huge step over these next 8 games. The truth is, while they've had some huge plays and exciting performances...neither Burrow or the offense as a whole has played their best football yet.

Yeah... The tipped passes down field don't bother me so much. The ones batted at the line do though. Then there are the egregious ones... The 100 yard pick 6. The OT pick vs Green Bay. The one where he just lobbed it into the end zone against Baltimore was harmless enough in hindsight, but I don't want him to make a habit outta doing that. But I agree with what you're getting at. There's been too much reliance on the big play offensively. That's been taken away 2 games in a row, and they've sorta sputtered as a result. The coaches need to fix that. It's going to be very telling to see how they come outta the bye.

[Sled21]

(11-12-2021, 10:28 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: No, because they've won Super Bowls during the current life span of many of their fans & didn't experience a decade of losing like the Bengals with Shula, Coslet, and LeBeau. Their fans have positive reasons to place trust in the Ravens franchise.  

That said,  ! I love you Burrow. 

Fans have nothing to do with the team falling apart. And I would have to look, but I wonder if there is even 1 player left from their last Super Bowl win. I doubt it. 

[Sled21]

(11-12-2021, 06:16 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: There are definitely times where he's tries to force things or make something happen off-script. so that's definitely a part of it. At other times, he's had some bad luck with defenders making good plays on tipped passes. 

Another interesting factor is that he leads the league in 'aggressive passing' which are throws into tight coverage / small windows. This stat usually reflects a combination of some poor / reckless decisions by the QB and some poor routes / separation by the receivers. Nine of his 11 picks have come when he's targeting Boyd and Chase, and Higgins has a ton of contested balls so far. 

Joe's got to be more consistent with his decision making no doubt, but the receivers are going to have to step up their games as well. You can't depend on the big play all the time. There's been far too many 3 and outs and inconsistency during the first 9 games. 

Having said all that, I'm expecting the offense to take a huge step over these next 8 games. The truth is, while they've had some huge plays and exciting performances...neither Burrow or the offense as a whole has played their best football yet.

Joe has said before he is going to throw it up and give his recievers a chance to win it. 

[fredtoast]

(11-14-2021, 11:39 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Joe has said before he is going to throw it up and give his recievers a chance to win it. 

He needs to realize that floating a ball into coverage also gives the DB a chance to win it.

A fifty/fifty chance of an interception is actually very bad odds for the offense.