La'El Collins opt out

[puddycat]

Should the Bengals opt out? Seems like a bit of a jerk move after an ACL/MCL injury, but..
As I understand it, the Bengals could opt out of the contract, would eat 2/3 of the $5M signing bonus, and the move would save just over $6m against the cap (there may be an injury settlement as well). I was a big fan of the signing when it happened, but between the ACL/MCL, chronic back injuries, and being 30 next year, the upside is shrinking. It would put us in a very needy RT position, but aren't we already there?

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 07:11 PM)puddycat Wrote: Should the Bengals opt out?  Seems like a bit of a jerk move after an ACL/MCL injury, but..
As I understand it, the Bengals could opt out of the contract, would eat 2/3 of the $5M signing bonus, and the move would save just over $6m against the cap (there may be an injury settlement as well).  I was a big fan of the signing when it happened, but between the ACL/MCL, chronic back injuries, and being 30 next year, the upside is shrinking.  It would put us in a very needy RT position, but aren't we already there?

I dont think they can while he is not cleared to play, without a medical settlement. 

[007BengalsFan]

(02-18-2023, 07:11 PM)puddycat Wrote: Should the Bengals opt out?  Seems like a bit of a jerk move after an ACL/MCL injury, but..
As I understand it, the Bengals could opt out of the contract, would eat 2/3 of the $5M signing bonus, and the move would save just over $6m against the cap (there may be an injury settlement as well).  I was a big fan of the signing when it happened, but between the ACL/MCL, chronic back injuries, and being 30 next year, the upside is shrinking.  It would put us in a very needy RT position, but aren't we already there?

We are already in a very needy position because Collins wont be ready to start next year.  I am personally doubtfull he will be ready at all next year.  He is a big dude and the way he will need to move and twist in blocking with all his weight on that knee, I just dont see him being ready next year.  We will need to rely on someone else for some amount of time next year and that leaves us right now counting on Adeniji.   I cant imagine too many people think that's a good idea.  Although he played better at T than G, he was still pretty bad.  They need someone else.

A post June 1st Collins cut saves the Bengals 7.7 million in cap space.  If Collins is cut before June 1 it saves just 6 million

I think the Bengals have to sign a proven quality free agent for RT this offseason.  I dont think you want to draft an unproven rookie and cross your finger he does OK at RT while also hoping Volson somehow shows major improvment and hoping Jonah Williams doesnt give up the league leading number of sacks again.  That is just too many question marks for the Oline once again.  Do fans want a 3rd straight season of knowing the team could have won the Super Bowl if onlly they had better talent on the Oline?  As of right now the Bengals have exactly two quality starters on the Oline, Cappa and Karras and that is only because they picked them up in free agency last year.  I think management needs to go out and get another 2 quality free agents.

[Frank Booth]

either move him to LG or cut him

[*Go Cards*]

(02-18-2023, 07:32 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont think they can while he is not cleared to play, without a medical settlement. 

What sort one monetary compensation does a medical settlement require from the Bengals ?

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 08:03 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: We are already in a very needy position because Collins wont be ready to start next year.  I am personally doubtfull he will be ready at all next year.  He is a big dude and the way he will need to move and twist in blocking with all his weight on that knee, I just dont see him being ready next year.  We will need to rely on someone else for some amount of time next year and that leaves us right now counting on Adeniji.   I cant imagine too many people think that's a good idea.  Although he played better at T than G, he was still pretty bad.  They need someone else.

A post June 1st Collins cut saves the Bengals 7.7 million in cap space.  If Collins is cut before June 1 it saves just 6 million

I think the Bengals have to sign a proven quality free agent for RT this offseason.  I dont think you want to draft an unproven rookie and cross your finger he does OK at RT while also hoping Volson somehow shows major improvment and hoping Jonah Williams doesnt give up the league leading number of sacks again.  That is just too many question marks for the Oline once again.  Do fans want a 3rd straight season of knowing the team could have won the Super Bowl if onlly they had better talent on the Oline?  As of right now the Bengals have exactly two quality starters on the Oline, Cappa and Karras and that is only because they picked them up in free agency last year.  I think management needs to go out and get another 2 quality free agents.

I don't understand.  If Collins will not be ready by the start of the season how do you cut him pre or post June 1?

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 08:28 PM)Go Cards Wrote: What sort one monetary compensation does a medical settlement require from the Bengals ?

Same contract but prorated to the amount of time that the team and player agree the player will be unable to play.

[Housh]

I’d rather just wait and hope he can come back late in the year



We got him for this year and next so i just don’t see the point in letting him go unless we have his replacement already in mind. If we go out and get another RT then I’m
Ok with cutting him as soon as we can. He really wasn’t that good this year. His good games were decent but his bad games were horrible. Not enough consistency for me

[Bengalholic]

(02-18-2023, 07:11 PM)puddycat Wrote: Should the Bengals opt out?  Seems like a bit of a jerk move after an ACL/MCL injury, but..
As I understand it, the Bengals could opt out of the contract, would eat 2/3 of the $5M signing bonus, and the move would save just over $6m against the cap (there may be an injury settlement as well).  I was a big fan of the signing when it happened, but between the ACL/MCL, chronic back injuries, and being 30 next year, the upside is shrinking.  It would put us in a very needy RT position, but aren't we already there?

Is an injury settlement needed to part ways with Collins? Whatever the case, I just don't think you can trust his body / health enough at this point...and his overall play wasn't great before the knee injury, struggling with the back issues all year.

[*bfine32*]

Really don't see the benefit of reaching an injury settlement with LC. I suppose we could save a couple bucks toward the end of the year IF LC settled for anything less than 17 games. Just let him heal and maybe he can come back fully healthy for a post season run.

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 10:20 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Is an injury settlement needed to part ways with Collins? Whatever the case, I just don't think you can trust his body / health enough at this point...and his overall play wasn't great before the knee injury, struggling with the back issues all year.

(02-18-2023, 10:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Really don't see the benefit of reaching an injury settlement with LC. I suppose we could save a couple bucks toward the end of the year IF LC settled for anything less than 17 games. Just let him heal and maybe he can come back fully healthy for a post season run.

I think i agree with bfine.  An injury settlement requires team and player to agree on projected missed games.  That is so many months away that I think we are stuck.  Even with a settlement doubt it gets done before FA, we might have a shot at training camp waivers....?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

I could be wrong, but isn't an injury settlement for an injury that happened in that ongoing season?

Otherwise there'd be no point in contracts having "guarantees for injury".


- - - - - - -
EDIT:
https://en.as.com/en/2021/11/05/nfl/1636111487_338373.html

Quote:Players can have a guarantee clause in their deals which assures them of receiving X amount of money when they are hurt. They will have this protection if they suffer “football-related injuries”. The CBA makes sure that the club is obliged to pay the players while they are doing rehab for their injury, and provide salary continuation for the year in which the injury was sustained.

The link also talks about Stephon Gilmore who was going to get released by the Patriots while still recovering from quad surgery he got in December of the previous season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32347469/new-england-patriots-releasing-cb-stephon-gilmore-contract-talks-fail-source-says

Quote:Gilmore, 31, was eligible to come off the physically unable to perform list after Week 6, and the market for the 2019 NFL Defensive Player of the Year is expected to be robust. Multiple teams are expected to be interested, and Gilmore should be recovered from his quad injury in the coming weeks.

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 11:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I could be wrong, but isn't an injury settlement for an injury that happened in that ongoing season?

Otherwise there'd be no point in contracts having "guarantees for injury".


- - - - - - -
EDIT:
https://en.as.com/en/2021/11/05/nfl/1636111487_338373.html

The link also talks about Stephon Gilmore who was going to get released by the Patriots while still recovering from quad surgery he got in December of the previous season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32347469/new-england-patriots-releasing-cb-stephon-gilmore-contract-talks-fail-source-says

Pretty sure insurance kicks in only if the player cannot finish the term of the contract due to injury, usually career ending injuries.

I believe players are only paid during the season.

I wonder if they had agreed on a settlement, traded instead?  Gilmore is vested so he could do what he wanted, so I dont know?

[*bfine32*]

(02-18-2023, 11:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I could be wrong, but isn't an injury settlement for an injury that happened in that ongoing season?

Otherwise there'd be no point in contracts having "guarantees for injury".


- - - - - - -
EDIT:
https://en.as.com/en/2021/11/05/nfl/1636111487_338373.html

The link also talks about Stephon Gilmore who was going to get released by the Patriots while still recovering from quad surgery he got in December of the previous season.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32347469/new-england-patriots-releasing-cb-stephon-gilmore-contract-talks-fail-source-says

It appears you may be correct:

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-glossary/#:~:text=An%20Injury%20Settlement%20is%20usually,the%20player's%20scheduled%20base%20salary.

I

Quote:njury Settlement

Quote: – In the NFL, an injured player cannot be released.  Often a team and player will reach an Injury Settlement in lieu of putting, or keeping, the player on IR for the rest of the season.  Once an Injury Settlement is reached, the player is released.  This is done when the player has a chance to recover from injury and play again in that season.  However, if the player is still under contract for future seasons and the team wants to retain the player’s rights for the future, the team will not agree to an Injury Settlement and instead decide to continue to carry the player on Injured Reserve (IR).

This makes me rethink my stance. I was wondering why folks were saying injury settlement was the best move. It appears the 6th Wednesday after the Superbowl we can release him and only owe the guaranteed money. With this new information I think we should cut bait

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 11:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It appears you may be correct:

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-glossary/#:~:text=An%20Injury%20Settlement%20is%20usually,the%20player's%20scheduled%20base%20salary.

I

This makes me rethink my stance. I was wondering why folks were saying injury settlement was the best move. It appears the 6th Wednesday after the Superbowl we can release him and only owe the guaranteed money. With this new information I think we should cut bait

What are you seeing that says LC can be released in the offseason?

This is what I have been saying, they cannot cut him without an injury settlement.  The team cannot make him agree to it.

[casear2727]

(02-18-2023, 11:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It appears you may be correct:

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-glossary/#:~:text=An%20Injury%20Settlement%20is%20usually,the%20player's%20scheduled%20base%20salary.

I

This makes me rethink my stance. I was wondering why folks were saying injury settlement was the best move. It appears the 6th Wednesday after the Superbowl we can release him and only owe the guaranteed money. With this new information I think we should cut bait

LC is vested so he could go anywhere immediately if he agreed to the settlement but why would he?  That would be weird.

He has no guaranteed money.
He is currently injured.
He just had the worst season of his career.

Not sure many teams would line up to sign him?

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-18-2023, 10:20 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Is an injury settlement needed to part ways with Collins? Whatever the case, I just don't think you can trust his body / health enough at this point...and his overall play wasn't great before the knee injury, struggling with the back issues all year.

If you're going to pay him for an IS, i'd rather keep him on the roster and have him there in case there's another injury late in the year. If he ends up not playing, you can always just take the 1.6M dead cap hit the next year. 

I'm not a real big fan of potentially having his and Jonah's contracts sitting on the bench but i am a big fan of having them available if someone gets hurts before the playoffs. I don't ever wanna see Hakeem Adeniji or anyone like him taking important snaps in playoff games/super bowls. 

[Bengalholic]

(02-18-2023, 11:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It appears you may be correct:

https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-glossary/#:~:text=An%20Injury%20Settlement%20is%20usually,the%20player's%20scheduled%20base%20salary.

I

This makes me rethink my stance. I was wondering why folks were saying injury settlement was the best move. It appears the 6th Wednesday after the Superbowl we can release him and only owe the guaranteed money. With this new information I think we should cut bait

I could be totally wrong, but I thought a player was protected from being released until he was medically cleared or reached an injury settlement.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-19-2023, 12:54 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: I could be totally wrong, but I thought a player was protected from being released until he was medically cleared or reached an injury settlement.

That's what the PUP is for...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injured_reserve_list

Quote: physically unable to perform (PUP), for injuries sustained during the previous season or during offseason training activities (a player who passes their physical at the beginning of training camp and practices is physically able to participate and is thus ineligible for the PUP list)

..I am starting to be more and more confident that cutting Collins doesn't need a settlement. He's not going to be on the IR, he doesn't have any injury guarantees in his contract, and it'll be a new league year.

[casear2727]

(02-19-2023, 01:16 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's what the PUP is for...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injured_reserve_list

..I am starting to be more and more confident that cutting Collins doesn't need a settlement. He's not going to be on the IR, he doesn't have any injury guarantees in his contract, and it'll be a new league year.

If he isnt healthy, how would you cut him?  It is pretty clear,  "In the NFL, an injured player cannot be released." (from bfine link above)
No way LC is cleared before free agency, right?

The only guaranteed dollars LC had coming to him was his signing bonus, thus it wasn't necessary.