Chase not Practicing

[RunKijanaRun]

(08-22-2024, 11:05 AM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote: While Burrow is certainly harder to replace than a Chase or Higgins, you're comment about WRs "quickly becoming as fungible as RBs" seems to completely contradict how NFL teams are actually operating. 

Instead of WRs becoming "quickly fungible", it's actually the opposite. Their salaries are exploding at the highest (or 2nd highest) rate of any position which indicates that NFL front offices have the complete opposite opinion than you. 

Compare that to RB salaries, the actual fungible position, and you see little gains in contract values over the last several years. Contracts tell you what positions are fungible or not. 

Just because they’re doing it doesn’t mean it’s correct. What did the contracts tell us when RBs were wildly overpaid?

They figure it out, eventually. Doesn’t mean there aren’t still great RBs and great WRs. Just means the difference twixt good ones and great ones isn’t as gigantic as many believe.

[RegularGuy22]

All of these holdouts, holdins only prove 1 thing and that is the player and his agent only care about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. There is no team or player closeness or bonds being formed to win a SB ring. I really don't think the players care if they ever win a ring, it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and nothing else matters. A player would sign with the Tennessee Terribles if the foolish owner would pay them and the team go 0-15. As long as they got the paycheck.

[*ochocincos*]

(08-22-2024, 11:21 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: All of these holdouts, holdins only prove 1 thing and that is the player and his agent only care about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. There is no team or player closeness or bonds being formed to win a SB ring. I really don't think the players care if they ever win a ring, it's all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and nothing else matters. A player would sign with the Tennessee Terribles if the foolish owner would pay them and the team go 0-15. As long as they got the paycheck.

That's how many employees are at their jobs.
Why does it have to be different for a private sport company?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-22-2024, 10:34 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Chase is injury prone? He had that hip thing a couple years ago, I cant remember him missing significant time other than that?

They have the cap space to do it. The cap keeps expanding every year. The Bengals don't have any bad long term contracts. They don't have anyone extended past 2026, really. They will be more than fine. 

That’s because he hasn’t. He’s missed a grand total of 1 game due to injury besides the hip.

He played in all 17 games in 2021.

He played in 12 games in 2022.
- 4 games hip
- canceled Buffalo game

He played in 16 games in 2023.
- 1 game shoulder

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-22-2024, 11:09 AM)Synric Wrote: Maybe I'm still bitter about Jessie Bates but they better pay someone lol.

And that’s absolutely going to be the narrative until they do. They sold the naming rights to the stadium, they let Bates walk, they didn’t extend Tee, etc. The money is clearly there.

[jj22]

I remember when you used the definition to mean missing games for Burrow. That doesn't mean he hasn't battled injuries which he has, and it is the reason supposedly why he isn't practicing. Trying to listen to his body more due to the past injuries. 

Have we forgot the talking points? 

[mhbsavant]

(08-22-2024, 10:19 AM)Whatever Wrote: Honest questions here.

Do you think we win an AFC Championship in '21 without Ja'Marr Chase?

Do you think we've even broken the decades long streak of playoff futility without Ja'Marr Chase?

The mods should just delete your account and hardware block your IP

[jj22]

(08-22-2024, 10:34 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Chase is injury prone? He had that hip thing a couple years ago, I cant remember him missing significant time other than that? 

They have the cap space to do it. The cap keeps expanding every year. The Bengals don't have any bad long term contracts. They don't have anyone extended past 2026, really. They will be more than fine. 

I tried to say "prone to injury" because I've been told on the side that saying someone is "injury prone" triggers them. But he's battled injury issues in 2 out of his 3 years, and is supposedly sitting out of camp to try to "listen to his body more" like Burrow who too is trying to remain healthy and get through a season. 

[RegularGuy22]

You're right, it doesn't but after all the talk about how Burrow and Chase are so close and can bring a SB finally to Cincy and how JB and Higgins and now Chase might sign team friendly deals to keep the core of the team together for a SB push, now we see their true colors and that is to reset the markets for their position groups. So, so much for team loyalty for a SB run.

Must be fun to hear agents chat behind the scenes about how they just got "so and so" signed for 50M ++++++++ per year to set a new market and these other agents say watch this,, and sign one of their players to a yet bigger contract when neither player has been to a SB let alone won one. That's why I feel winning a SB has become secondary after signing the huge contract is 1st. Seems like not too many decades ago winning the SB was the prize and THEN getting a huge contract was the icing on the cake but now it's the other way around.

Hey, if the money is there for the Bengals to sign these players then they probably should. With the TV money being spread around like butter other teams seem to do it without going broke.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

I'm ready for this to get settled and in week 2 Jim Nantz can be "Chase" "Their is no Chase Touchdown Bengals"!

[WeezyBengal]

(08-22-2024, 11:36 AM)jj22 Wrote: I tried to say "prone to injury" because I've been told on the side that saying someone is "injury prone" triggers them. But he's battled injury issues in 2 out of his 3 years, and is supposedly sitting out of camp to try to "listen to his body more" like Burrow who too is trying to remain healthy and get through a season. 

If you are looking for players that aren't "injury prone" then you are going to be looking for a LONG time. This is the NFL, every players deals with injuries pretty much every season. 

Being injury "prone" isn't a thing. A lot of it is luck more than anything. 

[Sled21]

(08-22-2024, 11:05 AM)Lucius Cincinnatus Wrote:
While Burrow is certainly harder to replace than a Chase or Higgins, you're comment about WRs "quickly becoming as fungible as RBs" seems to completely contradict how NFL teams are actually operating. 

Instead of WRs becoming "quickly fungible", it's actually the opposite. Their salaries are exploding at the highest (or 2nd highest) rate of any position which indicates that NFL front offices have the complete opposite opinion than you. 

Compare that to RB salaries, the actual fungible position, and you see little gains in contract values over the last several years. Contracts tell you what positions are fungible or not. 

Actually, it doesn't. I posted earlier about Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin having this exact conversation yesterday on "Moving the Chains." They stated that outside of about the 8-10 top receivers, teams are realizing the drafts are so deep in the WR position they can get quality receivers in 2-4 rounds. So, beyond the few "elite" receivers, the rest are being devalued as they are easily replaced, just like running backs.

[Whatever]

(08-22-2024, 11:34 AM)mhbsavant Wrote: The mods should just delete your account and hardware block your IP

You should speak to Bengalholic regarding that.  

Have a pleasant day!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-22-2024, 12:43 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If you are looking for players that aren't "injury prone" then you are going to be looking for a LONG time. This is the NFL, every players deals with injuries pretty much every season. 

Being injury "prone" isn't a thing. A lot of it is luck more than anything. 

I'm going to disagree here. 

Tee Higgins has been on injury reports with hamstring injuries each of the last 5 straight years. 
Thomas Davis had ACL tears in 3 straight years.
Steve Smith had 4 fractures in his career.
Bob Sanders.
Ben Roethlisberger only played 16 games in 5 of 18 years.

Some guys just have more fragile bones, more fragile ACLs, tighter hamstrings, less pain tolerance, or just entire bodies. Not even listing anyone for the fact that some guys just get concussions way easier than others.

Sure, some of it is luck (Eifert stepping on a football), but I entirely reject that being injury prone isn't a thing and it's luck.

[Bengalbug]

(08-22-2024, 12:54 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Actually, it doesn't. I posted earlier about Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin having this exact conversation yesterday on "Moving the Chains." They stated that outside of about the 8-10 top receivers, teams are realizing the drafts are so deep in the WR position they can get quality receivers in 2-4 rounds. So, beyond the few "elite" receivers, the rest are being devalued as they are easily replaced, just like running backs.

Idk… for every hit.. you have fails.

2019
Marquise brown
Nkeal harry
Mecole Hardman
Jj arcega-white side
Parris Campbell
Andy Isabella
Jalen hurd
Miles Boykin

2020
Henry ruggs
Jaelon reager
Jerry jeudy
Laviska shenault
Chase claypool
Van Jefferson
Denzel mims
Lynn Bowden
Bryan edwards
Devin duvernay
Kj hamler

2021
Kadarius Toney
Rashod Bateman
Elijah Moore
Rondale moore
Dwayne eskridge
Tutu atwell
Terrace Marshall jr
Josh Palmer (TBD)
Dyami brown
Amari Rodgers
Anthony Schwartz

That’s 30 picks in a 3 year period, drafted in the first 3 rounds that haven’t hit.

On the flip side, there have been 13 wide receivers (round 1-3) in that same timeframe that have been contributors to the success of their team.

That’s less than a 33% hit rate on 1st-3rd Receivers, over a 3 year period. I didnt do 2022 as these guys need their 3rd year… like a Nico Collin’s who, if we did this last year, he wouldn’t have made it.

[Au165]

(08-22-2024, 12:54 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Actually, it doesn't. I posted earlier about Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin having this exact conversation yesterday on "Moving the Chains." They stated that outside of about the 8-10 top receivers, teams are realizing the drafts are so deep in the WR position they can get quality receivers in 2-4 rounds. So, beyond the few "elite" receivers, the rest are being devalued as they are easily replaced, just like running backs.

I have heard the argument, and actually agree with the idea, but I disagree teams are actually doing it in practice. For instance we saw teams like the Steeler and Patriots who are historically very conservative franchises who were willing to trade for Brandon Ayuik and pay him between 28-32 million per year according to reports. We know the Browns were going to trade for him and pay him above 32 million per report but he rejected going there. We know the 49ers who have already paid Samuel are working to keep him at a similarish numbers. So right there we have 4 clubs who don't believe that.

We can then go through the league and see a large portion of the league has in fact paid WR's recently if they had ones worth paying. Their deals now may not be big because a year or two has passed but almost all have shown an interest to pay elite WR's when the time comes outside of KC. I actually think it's still coming but it isn't here yet and we need to not pretend as though the league is already there because the data doesn't show us that.

[coachmcneil71]

Mostly just venting about this, but I just logged into ESPN and seen where the Eagles just traded for Dotson. Not only did they acquire Dotson, they also managed to resign both Brown and Smith to new contracts this past offseason.

Here we are with Ebenezer Brown and our top two WRs just flapping in the breeze. I'm sure that Chase will play, and Tee signed the tag, but this is the shit that makes the Bengals look cheap and unappealing to ALL NFL players. Simply put, it just does. The Eagles have won a SB, rebuilt the team, returned to the SB, and are well on there way again. They've done all of this in the past 5-6 years.

Here we are many of us 50 years in and we've sniffed 3 SBs in our LIFETIME!! For the love of God plz crack that dusty billfold open and pay our #1 WR or the #2 WR. I don't care which. Bengals FO is always looking to next year. Chiefs, Eagles, and the good organizations are always looking at the next 5 years. They play chess and our FO plays checkers.

[*bfine32*]

(08-22-2024, 10:19 AM)Whatever Wrote: Honest questions here.

Do you think we win an AFC Championship in '21 without Ja'Marr Chase?

Do you think we've even broken the decades long streak of playoff futility without Ja'Marr Chase?

Quite the rabbit hole to go down but it's quite possible. We could have taken Penei Sewell in the first and then got a compliment to Tee in the later rounds. Then we wouldn't have wasted a 2nd Rounder on Jackson Carman. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-21-2024, 11:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Ja'Marr shouldnt get what Jefferson got because he is not as good as Jefferson.  40 million a year? Absolutely ridiculous.   If that's what he is demanding while sitting out, trade him.

40 million a year is ridiculous, but that isn't what Jefferson got...

[Whatever]

(08-22-2024, 01:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: I have heard the argument, and actually agree with the idea, but I disagree teams are actually doing it in practice. For instance we saw teams like the Steeler and Patriots who are historically very conservative franchises who were willing to trade for Brandon Ayuik and pay him between 28-32 million per year according to reports. We know the Browns were going to trade for him and pay him above 32 million per report but he rejected going there. We know the 49ers who have already paid Samuel are working to keep him at a similarish numbers. So right there we have 4 clubs who don't believe that.

We can then go through the league and see a large portion of the league has in fact paid WR's recently if they had ones worth paying. Their deals now may not be big because a year or two has passed but almost all have shown an interest to pay elite WR's when the time comes outside of KC. I actually think it's still coming but it isn't here yet and we need to not pretend as though the league is already there because the data doesn't show us that.

Aiyuk is a bad example.

He was second team All Pro last year, meaning he was one of the 4 best WR 's in the league.  He was also ranked 60-some in the NFL 100.  He is legitimately one of those top 8-10 guys.  That's why teams are willing to trade/pay him like one.   

The question is more where that line falls.  It gets blurred badly because most of us want to elevate Higgins into a higher tier than he actually is.

The player's psyche and team building philosophy are also big.  Marvin Jones infamously left because he wanted to be a #1 WR.  It wasn't an issue of money.  On the other hand, as with any position group other than QB, where a team's line lies is directly dependent on how well they draft/develop players in said position group.