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(08-26-2024, 04:34 PM)Synric Wrote: In the end it does not matter because rhe league views Chase at least in the top tier so his contract will be slotted in around Lamb's and Jefferson's. There won't be much quibbling now that rhe market is set same thing happened in the Joe Burrow situation.
The difference between yesterday and today is it has now it has become urgent to get Chase's deal done. The Lamb contract proved that it's a tier with Jefferson and not just an outlier so the sooner the Bengals get this done the more they can spread out the cap percentage... if they wait and Ja'Marr has 1300+ yards next year and the salary cap jumps another 20m well we could be talking 36 or 37m.
Why, JaMarr is not in the same Draft Class as Jefferson and Lamb. Why is it "now urgent" to do his deal a year earlier?
It seems folks comparing Chase's situation to JJ and CeeDee are missing this simple fact.
As to who's better:
You tell me I can pick JJ, Chase, or CeeDee to start my NFL Franchise: I'm taking Chase.
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I'd expect a little more of a hesitation Bfine. Especially with JJ an option...
I'd take Chase over all of them at the end of the day. But that's mainly because I believe (have fallen for) in the Burrow / Chase connection more than me thinking Chase is a irreplaceable or his production is generational...
But I can easily be had wit a Burrow / JJ connection narrative.
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(08-26-2024, 05:00 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think the Bengals will give guaranteed money but Chase isnt getting 120 million guaranteed. He isnt as good as Jefferson and he isnt as good as Lamb so he isnt going to get more guaranteed money than those guys. I think realistically Chase should expect between what AJ Brown got and what Lamb got. Maybe 90 million, maybe as high as 95. I dont know but the 160million extension with 120 million guaranteed Chase's agent is proposing is ridiculous. If Chase wants a deal done, come back with a serious offer that's between AJ Brown and Lamb.
Jefferson and Lamb both saw 180+ targets in their best seasons. Chase has never seen anywhere close to that. It will be interesting to see just how much Chase’s target share goes up once both Tee and Boyd are gone.
But as Synric pointed out, it’s not really about whether he is the 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th best WR or wherever exactly you want to rank him. It’s about being in the same tier as those guys, and that means he’s going to be paid accordingly. Which is why it would be smart to get it done now, as the price is only going to go up.
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(08-26-2024, 04:44 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Why is it urgent to get Chase's deal done now? He still has 2 years remaining on his current contract and the Bengals could easily tag him twice and still be well under what Lamb was just paid with nothing guaranteed but the current season. Financially, the Bengals would be in much better shape to do that. It benefits Chase to come back to the Bengals to get an extension now along the lines of what Lamb got. If he is too greedy, he can end up screwing himself out of money.
He is asking for what CeeDee got essentially. Lamb is getting 30.8 per year and Chase would be getting 32 or just under according to the #s we heard. Chase's deal seems vastly different on the surface because with 2 yrs left instead of 1 his deal looks like 4yr 160 mil instead of the 136mil. But pretty close to the same deal.
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(08-26-2024, 05:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why, JaMarr is not in the same Draft Class as Jefferson and Lamb. Why is it "now urgent" to do his deal a year earlier?
It seems folks comparing Chase's situation to JJ and CeeDee are missing this simple fact.
As to who's better:
You tell me I can pick JJ, Chase, or CeeDee to start my NFL Franchise: I'm taking Chase.
It comes down to what Chase wants. If he wants paid right now and it really shouldn't make a difference to us then do it now.
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(08-26-2024, 05:01 PM)jj22 Wrote: Conway is trolling.
He played slot more last year, and I'd never highlight him out of the backfield as if he was a difference maker in that role like Deebo Samuels or someone. He actually sucks on reverses and coming out of the backfield. He's best as a decoy.
I'm not a big fan of Chase coming out of the backfield or wr screens. But I think it's absolutely fair to point that out because ppl want to point at yards per catch and that certainly hurts his average as much as they do that.
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(08-26-2024, 05:55 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: It comes down to what Chase wants. If he wants paid right now and it really shouldn't make a difference to us then do it now.
IDK, I'd say the owners may have some say in the matter. I get some others in Chase's draft class got paid this off-season, but they were not "adjust the market" payments. I'd assume they'd like to keep those as late in the game as possible. It's already "The Norm" for QBs to break the bank after years 3, not sure the owners want to extend that to WRs.
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(08-26-2024, 05:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why, JaMarr is not in the same Draft Class as Jefferson and Lamb. Why is it "now urgent" to do his deal a year earlier?
It seems folks comparing Chase's situation to JJ and CeeDee are missing this simple fact.
As to who's better:
You tell me I can pick JJ, Chase, or CeeDee to start my NFL Franchise: I'm taking Chase.
Curious how you're determining Chase is better than both Jefferson and Lamb.
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(08-26-2024, 04:54 PM)jj22 Wrote: Who's better discussion is always about metrics unless you don't have the metrics.... then you get the excuses.
DC's focus on stopping Lamb and only Lamb in that offense...
The truth is as painful as it seems, if anyone for example told us that George Pickens was better than Chase, the first thing we'd point to is Chases numbers. Yards, TD, etc.
Chase outside of his rookie year just hasn't done what some of the other elite top tier receivers have. Regardless if we see the "potential".
But have we all forgotten Chase got hurt in 22 and Burrow got hurt in 23. I get the numbers might say Lamb let's just say he is better. The deals are the same essentially. Chase's deal just looks bigger because he has 2 years left.
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(08-26-2024, 06:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: IDK, I'd say the owners may have some say in the matter. I get some others in Chase's draft class got paid this off-season, but they were not "adjust the market" payments. I'd assume they'd like to keep those as late in the game as possible. It's already "The Norm" for QBs to break the bank after years 3, not sure the owners want to extend that to WRs.
But it's not even adjust the market #s. Jefferson gets 32mil a year which is what Chase is asking for and Lamb got 30.8 mil a year. Sure the owner has a say I just seems the only difference is giving security now.
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(08-26-2024, 06:10 PM)TheFan Wrote: Curious how you're determining Chase is better than both Jefferson and Lamb.
I'm not bfine but Chase is faster and more athletic than both, and he wins when it comes to TDs:
Chase averages almost 2 more TDs per season than both.
Chase has 1 less total TDs than JJ despite playing 15 less games.
Chase has 3 less total TDs than CeeDee despite playing 21 less games.
Does this make him a better player? Not necessarily, but Chase also averages less targets than both as well.
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(08-26-2024, 03:50 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: He cut them before TC 
Ah, didn't know that, thanks Truck. 
(08-26-2024, 04:02 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think Chase should get a little under what Lamb got. Chase had a great rookie season but teams adjusted and the last 2 years Chase hasn't been at the same level as Lamb
Lamb:
2023 1,749 yards 12 TDs 13.0 yards per reception
2022 1,359 yards 9 TDs 12.7 yards per reception
Chase:
2023 1,216 yards 7 TDs 12.2 yards per reception
2022 1,046 yards 9 TDs 12.0 yards per reception
With Lamb signing a 4 year 136 million extension with 100 million guaranteed, a fair 4 year contract extension for Chase should be about 132 million with 95 million guaranteed.
Thanks for the numbers, still think Chase is better than Lamb though and will cost a touch more.
(08-26-2024, 04:54 PM)Synric Wrote: This is the kinda stuff that would cause players to fake injuries and sit out a year instead of playing on franchise tag. When you argue "so what?" it's tieing up massive amount of the salary cap to a player that either isn't trying to risk injury or flat out not playing when all you had to do in the first place was show him some loyalty and pay him the contract he deserves.... but to each their own I guess I'd rather see Chase paid in the most team friendly way possible which is now.
Yep, the point is keeping the man happy and he clearly wants the extension now and it would be best for all parties involved.
He will be cheaper now than waiting till after he has his best season this year which is what I expect.
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(08-26-2024, 03:03 PM)phil413 Wrote:
Good he came in at under JJ's annual average, still comes down to what Cincy can do about the guaranteed money though.
4 yrs, 140M, 110M guaranteed and 40M signing bonus. Boom, done.
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(08-26-2024, 06:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 4 yrs, 140M, 110M guaranteed and 40M signing bonus. Boom, done.
I could see an even bigger signing bonus that could be prorated over 5 years.
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(08-26-2024, 06:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: 4 yrs, 140M, 110M guaranteed and 40M signing bonus. Boom, done.
I do that deal tomorrow if I’m the Bengals. Chase is still only 24 so the guaranteed money doesn’t scare me at all.
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(08-26-2024, 06:10 PM)TheFan Wrote: Curious how you're determining Chase is better than both Jefferson and Lamb.
I'm a homer. Also, I didn't say Chase was better I just said I'd take him over the other 2. His raw skills and measurables are superior.
If I were to rank them currently, I'd have to give the nod to CeeDee based on durability alone.
Hell, Chase may not make my top 5 if just ranking.
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(08-26-2024, 04:02 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think Chase should get a little under what Lamb got. Chase had a great rookie season but teams adjusted and the last 2 years Chase hasn't been at the same level as Lamb
Lamb:
2023 1,749 yards 12 TDs 13.0 yards per reception
2022 1,359 yards 9 TDs 12.7 yards per reception
Chase:
2023 1,216 yards 7 TDs 12.2 yards per reception
2022 1,046 yards 9 TDs 12.0 yards per reception
With Lamb signing a 4 year 136 million extension with 100 million guaranteed, a fair 4 year contract extension for Chase should be about 132 million with 95 million guaranteed.
Chase is better and more versatile. The reason his numbers were down from his rookie year is because he missed 4 games in '22 and Burrow missed 6 games last year.
If you project Chase's numbers for just 16 healthy games with Burrow, the last 2 years, he looks more like this.
'22 - 116/1,395/12
'23 - 123/1,459/9
That puts his career numbers at 320/4,309/34.
For reference, JJ's career after 3 years looked like this. 324/4,825/25.
Those numbers for Chase would have put him at #2 all time for most yards and 1 catch behind #2 in receptions in a players first 3 years. He would still be #6 (where he is now) for TDs.
Chase belongs in discussions beside Jefferson.
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(08-26-2024, 06:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm a homer. Also, I didn't say Chase was better I just said I'd take him over the other 2. His raw skills and measurables are superior.
If I were to rank them currently, I'd have to give the nod to CeeDee based on durability alone.
Hell, Chase may not make my top 5 if just ranking.
You said " As to who's better:"
That said, I do understand what you're saying and believe that's not what you meant. I agree Chase is anywhere between 2-10, just don't think there's any way someone can say he's objectively better than Jefferson.
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In conversations with an NFL league source, The Enquirer learned some background details about how the Vikings' decision to wait until this offseason to pay Jefferson impacted the final contract. Per a source with knowledge of the situation, if the Vikings had paid Jefferson what he originally asked for ahead of the 2023 season, they wouldn’t have had to pay what they are paying him now, by a significant amount.
And that is why it makes no sense to wait.
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