Chase not Practicing

[Bengalfan4life27c]

I don't feel why some of the fans feel the need to slight Bengals during contract negotiations. Chase may have had the best 3 year start of any player in the history of the franchise and I keep reading all this Chase is replaceable junk.

[KillerGoose]

(08-30-2024, 11:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Exactly!

Right, which is why it is silly to say he is "probably" making tens of millions more than his contract. For what it is worth, here is an article with some numbers. Mahomes tops the list making $25M annually in endorsement money. Burrow is around $4M. Chase likely isn't making anywhere close to his contract value in endorsement money.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(08-30-2024, 12:17 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I don't feel why some of the fans feel the need to slight Bengals during contract negotiations. Chase may have had the best 3 year start of any player in the history of the franchise and I keep reading all this Chase is replaceable junk.

I am open to listening to trade offers for Chase. He's a me first guy. Sitting out with 2 years left is gross. 

[Essex Johnson]

(08-30-2024, 12:27 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I am open to listening to trade offers for Chase. He's a me first guy. Sitting out with 2 years left is gross. 

Let's see his moral compass starting Sunday, he starts losing $$, as for trade keep options open, we know how well KC has done without Hill and getting those draft picks and we have better depth than KC had.. I should add this is more of extreme option for us, since I feel we have a better roster than KC did couple years ago and do not need those picks as much as KC did

[NUGDUKWE]

(08-30-2024, 11:10 AM)Whatever Wrote: But no rookie bound by a rookie deal was a member of the Union or had a vote when the current CBA was agreed to.

But again, you can't argue that players should have to honor contracts on a moral basis, but teams are free to disregard them as they see fit.

I would also say that being a rookie contract you are able to renegotiate after 3 years. So that can't completely be solely up to the team. So Chase thinks he's played well enough to renegotiate now that it's available to him. I agree that he has. Now ultimately the team has to decided as well but it's certainly not a standard point A point B contract situation. 

[Whatever]

(08-30-2024, 11:44 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I do not understand when people say that teams are not honoring contracts?  The contracts are based upon perceived production and other factors.  NFL contracts stipulate how much of the deal is guaranteed.  A contract can absolutely have non-guaranteed aspects.  

Every team honors these contracts, if they do not they can be sued and will easily lose in court.  Players are NOT forced to sign these contracts.  The rookie contract scale is what the NFL organization requires to participate.  They didn't have to allow the players union to participate in the parameters, but they did.

Teams and fans should want every player to out produce their current contracts, it doesn't mean that the team is obligated to change the current contract.  And if a player doesnt produce to the level of the contract, every team is obligated to pay the player any guarantees in their contract.

Chase is not honoring his contract, that fact is indisputable.   I think it would be best for the Bengals to get the deal done with Chase for multiple reasons.

So, basically, you are of the opinion that if you're going to make your living playing professional football then you must bend the knee at every turn to a cartel (which the NFL is) that operates in a manner that is illegal except for the fact that they bought off politicians to get an anti-trust exemption from the government and continue to throw money at judges and politicians every time this is challenged(see the recent Sunday Ticket case)?

Beyond that, whether his contract is currently being breeched is open for debate.  Players do not get paid to practice, except for workout bonuses which are optional.  The guarantee line cuts both ways, after all. Teams can fine players for not participating in training camp practices under the CBA so long as they can prove the players is healthy, but the Bengals are not doing that.  A player is only refusing to do something they are actually getting paid to do when they start missing games.

To set this up as a real world example, a person is vastly underpaid compared to the market for an employee of their skill set at their job.  On top of that, their boss requires them to come in unpaid for team building activities and can dock their pay if they don't attend.  They are also not free to leave their job and seal employment  at a competitor because they are bound by a non-compete (illegal as of September 4th per the FTC, btw).  And they never got to choose their place of employment to begin with and had to pack their life up and move to a city not of their choosing because all the companies in their field are in league with each other and allow each other to exclusively claim candidates out of college.

But the team can be cutthroat, but the player can't.

[Sled21]

(08-30-2024, 12:33 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Let's see his moral compass starting Sunday, he starts losing $$, as for trade keep options open, we know how well KC has done without Hill and getting those draft picks and we have better depth than KC had..

Right. Chase makes this team better, there is no denying that. But is trading him for a high-end DE to pair with Hendrickson and Hubbard, signing Higgins to a long-term deal to pair with Burton and Yoshi, and possibly getting a better RB to add to the stable really going to destroy this team. Chase is replaceable, as the Chiefs showed with the Cheeta

[RegularGuy22]

Some "expert" on Twitter/X said the Bengals are going to start selling playpens and pacifiers in the Pro Shop..for some of these players and agents that now see that Jimmy got more millions than they did.      

[NotBigzo]

(08-30-2024, 12:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: So, basically, you are of the opinion that if you're going to make your living playing professional football then you must bend the knee at every turn to a cartel (which the NFL is) that operates in a manner that is illegal except for the fact that they bought off politicians to get an anti-trust exemption from the government and continue to throw money at judges and politicians every time this is challenged(see the recent Sunday Ticket case)?

Beyond that, whether his contract is currently being breeched is open for debate.  Players do not get paid to practice, except for workout bonuses which are optional.  The guarantee line cuts both ways, after all. Teams can fine players for not participating in training camp practices under the CBA so long as they can prove the players is healthy, but the Bengals are not doing that.  A player is only refusing to do something they are actually getting paid to do when they start missing games.

To set this up as a real world example, a person is vastly underpaid compared to the market for an employee of their skill set at their job.  On top of that, their boss requires them to come in unpaid for team building activities and can dock their pay if they don't attend.  They are also not free to leave their job and seal employment  at a competitor because they are bound by a non-compete (illegal as of September 4th per the FTC, btw).  And they never got to choose their place of employment to begin with and had to pack their life up and move to a city not of their choosing because all the companies in their field are in league with each other and allow each other to exclusively claim candidates out of college.

But the team can be cutthroat, but the player can't.

Props here. I've never seen anyone go out of their way to put things into perspective like this. 

Cold harsh reality here: The business world is ruthless and will turn your rectum into something big enough to swallow a golf ball, if you allow them to. You have to advocate for yourself to get the best possible deal.  The business dynamics don't suddenly go away just because someone is working in a career field that you admire as a fan.

[*bfine32*]

(08-30-2024, 10:01 AM)jj22 Wrote: It sounds like they agree with the numbers which is why his body said he can practice, but the payout is what caused the setback. So that is good news I guess. They have agreed to meet his price.

This is why the "just pay him Stupid Bengals" crowd amazes me. We don't know what he wants. 


We heard rumors/speculation and if those are true I'd say it's too rich. He wants to be the highest paid WR in the NFL. He can't use "next contract" logic, because Lamb signed after Jefferson for less and Lamb is every bit the WR JaMar Chase is.

Chase could be doing a Watson and demanding 100% guaranteed. He could not be wanting to play the next 2 years on his current contract, he may want to start new contract this year. WE DON'T Know, but we do know the Bengals are stupid for not doing it. 

I WANT him signed and I WANT him in camp, but I try to be rational about it. 

[NotBigzo]

(08-30-2024, 10:01 AM)jj22 Wrote: It sounds like they agree with the numbers which is why his body said he can practice, but the payout is what caused the setback. So that is good news I guess. They have agreed to meet his price.

Where you getting this from big dog? 

[*bfine32*]

(08-30-2024, 01:08 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Where you getting this from big dog? 

Lapham indicated it on Sirius Radio yesterday for one source. He said they had settled on a number, but then "something" happened. It has to be when he gets his money

[RegularGuy22]

The something was the word "and" and the placement of a period. Also his agent didn't like the word "cannot" in the 37th paragraph.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-30-2024, 01:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Right. Chase makes this team better, there is no denying that. But is trading him for a high-end DE to pair with Hendrickson and Hubbard, signing Higgins to a long-term deal to pair with Burton and Yoshi, and possibly getting a better RB to add to the stable really going to destroy this team. Chase is replaceable, as the Chiefs showed with the Cheeta

Not going to argue with that. I just don't see us trading Chase away because of Burrow who is the face of this franchise and wants him here.

There is no doubt Chase has tons more value than any other player in a trade scenario and Tee has done the right things in showing up and 
playing on the Tag. Still, I am wary of Tee's injury history more than Ja'Marr's and Ja'Marr is the more talented Receiver with uncanny chemistry
with Burrow.

[NUGDUKWE]

(08-30-2024, 01:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: This is why the "just pay him Stupid Bengals" crowd amazes me. We don't know what he wants. 


We heard rumors/speculation and if those are true I'd say it's too rich. He wants to be the highest paid WR in the NFL. He can't use "next contract" logic, because Lamb signed after Jefferson for less and Lamb is every bit the WR JaMar Chase is.

Chase could be doing a Watson and demanding 100% guaranteed. He could not be wanting to play the next 2 years on his current contract, he may want to start new contract this year. WE DON'T Know, but we do know the Bengals are stupid for not doing it. 

I WANT him signed and I WANT him in camp, but I try to be rational about it. 

Well if the #s we saw are accurate. I'm pretty sure it's the guaranteed #. I don't see a world where Chase is fighting for a contract now but doesn't want any of the money now. But if he's asking right at Justin Jefferson average than I think it's a no brainer to sign him. Which if the Bengals agree on that I'm sure it's the guarantee. As far as the whole Lamb got less than Jefferson and he's equal to Chase atleast. We're talking less than 2-3 mil a year average? Not worth fighting over at that point I'm my eyes. Especially when we say it's only going to go up.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-30-2024, 01:22 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well if the #s we saw are accurate. I'm pretty sure it's the guaranteed #. I don't see a world where Chase is fighting for a contract now but doesn't want any of the money now. But if he's asking right at Justin Jefferson average than I think it's a no brainer to sign him. Which if the Bengals agree on that I'm sure it's the guarantee. As far as the whole Lamb got less than Jefferson and he's equal to Chase atleast. We're talking less than 2-3 mil a year average? Not worth fighting over at that point I'm my eyes. Especially when we say it's only going to go up.

Completely agree with everything you say here Nug.

[NUGDUKWE]

(08-30-2024, 01:01 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Right. Chase makes this team better, there is no denying that. But is trading him for a high-end DE to pair with Hendrickson and Hubbard, signing Higgins to a long-term deal to pair with Burton and Yoshi, and possibly getting a better RB to add to the stable really going to destroy this team. Chase is replaceable, as the Chiefs showed with the Cheeta

But signing Higgins to a long term deal is taking an Auyik deal of atleast 30mil per year. Right? So is Chase Who has strength and take it to the house speed worth 2-3 mil more a year?  

[Essex Johnson]

(08-30-2024, 12:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: So, basically, you are of the opinion that if you're going to make your living playing professional football then you must bend the knee at every turn to a cartel (which the NFL is) that operates in a manner that is illegal except for the fact that they bought off politicians to get an anti-trust exemption from the government and continue to throw money at judges and politicians every time this is challenged(see the recent Sunday Ticket case)?

Beyond that, whether his contract is currently being breeched is open for debate.  Players do not get paid to practice, except for workout bonuses which are optional.  The guarantee line cuts both ways, after all. Teams can fine players for not participating in training camp practices under the CBA so long as they can prove the players is healthy, but the Bengals are not doing that.  A player is only refusing to do something they are actually getting paid to do when they start missing games.

To set this up as a real world example, a person is vastly underpaid compared to the market for an employee of their skill set at their job.  On top of that, their boss requires them to come in unpaid for team building activities and can dock their pay if they don't attend.  They are also not free to leave their job and seal employment  at a competitor because they are bound by a non-compete (illegal as of September 4th per the FTC, btw).  And they never got to choose their place of employment to begin with and had to pack their life up and move to a city not of their choosing because all the companies in their field are in league with each other and allow each other to exclusively claim candidates out of college.

But the team can be cutthroat, but the player can't.

You make some good points but also a bit bias to one side, there are many favorable job arrangements that NFL players have that other professions do not and I think the one that is causing more and more of these contract issues is "guaranteed money", this is something that many daily high risk jobs do not have much of ie fire, police, etc.  To think that  a large portion of a player's contract can be guaranteed to be paid regardless of how a player performs or contract is terminated makes the player seem the cutthroat not the team. 

[TheFan]

(08-30-2024, 01:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not going to argue with that. I just don't see us trading Chase away because of Burrow who is the face of this franchise and wants him here.

There is no doubt Chase has tons more value than any other player in a trade scenario and Tee has done the right things in showing up and 
playing on the Tag. Still, I am wary of Tee's injury history more than Ja'Marr's and Ja'Marr is the more talented Receiver with uncanny chemistry
with Burrow.

Why does this myth keep getting pushed out? Burrow and Chase don't have some uncanny chemistry. 

Burrow had a better completion % to Higgins in 2021 and 2022 then he did to Chase. Browning had a 64% completion % to Chase in 2023 while Burrow had 63% and 64% in 2021 and 2022 respectively. 

Burrow is a great QB and Chase is a great WR. That's their chemistry. It's no different vs every other great QB/WR combo

[TheFan]

(08-30-2024, 01:25 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: But signing Higgins to a long term deal is taking an Auyik deal of atleast 30mil per year. Right? So is Chase Who has strength and take it to the house speed worth 2-3 mil more a year?  

Yes. But per reports he's wanting 5mil more a year. I agree 2-3mil isn't a significant amount but it can also be the difference between signing a middle tier player at another position vs lower tier.