PFF Grades vs KC

[Sled21]

(09-18-2024, 01:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: That would end up being a huge disappointment then, as many were hyped about Battle after last year.
Essentially demoting him to pure backup seems like a silly thing to do.
But we knew either Bell or Battle would have to sit some if having both and Geno Stone.
Bell brings that leadership in an overall very young DB room.

I think as the season progresses, we will see more of Battle switching in and out with Bell. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-18-2024, 04:36 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So what you're saying is...Andrei Iosivas is John Ross?! 
Have you ever seen John Ross and Andrei Iosivas in the same room? I haven't.
They're the same person, confirmed.

Already has 2 TD's, could be a much better RZ threat than Ross ever was just this season and I saw the ninja lol

They are nothing alike as far as WR's go.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-18-2024, 05:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Already has 2 TD's, could be a much better RZ threat than Ross ever was just this season and I saw the ninja lol

They are nothing alike as far as WR's go.

I was referring to 2018 when Ross had 210 yards but 7 TDs.
Iosivas last year had just 116 yards but 4 TDs. This year he has just 33 yards but 2 TDs.

I know their skill sets and measurables are not similar.
Was just pointing out that Iosivas is not producing yards, just TDs, like Ross did in 2018.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-19-2024, 11:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I was referring to 2018 when Ross had 210 yards but 7 TDs.
Iosivas last year had just 116 yards but 4 TDs. This year he has just 33 yards but 2 TDs.

I know their skill sets and measurables are not similar.
Was just pointing out that Iosivas is not producing yards, just TDs, like Ross did in 2018.

That is true, can compare those stats. But just the build on them, just nothing alike and John Ross wasn't a punk like some say.

One is 6'0" 200 pounds maybe and the other is 6'3" and around 215 or so and strong.

Expect Iosivas to get more yards as the season goes on though unless he gets hurt or Burton emerges big time.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-19-2024, 01:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is true, can compare those stats. But just the build on them, just nothing alike and John Ross wasn't a punk like some say.

One is 6'0" 200 pounds maybe and the other is 6'3" and around 215 or so and strong.

Expect Iosivas to get more yards as the season goes on though unless he gets hurt or Burton emerges big time.

I'm not 100% sure though.
Chase is Option 1 in the offense.
You'd think Higgins Option 2 once he's back.
Iosivas may actually fall to Option 4 if Gesicki keeps playing like he did last game.

FWIW, a player averaging just 30 yards per game ends up still hitting 500 on the season, believe it or not.
If Iosivas ends up 4th option, he might be more around 20-25 YPG, which would end up putting him around 350-450.

Another thing that could dig into Iosivas's production and target share is if the Bengals deploy more 12 personnel, putting WR3 on the bench more.

What I typically expect for average receiving per game for 1st vs 2nd vs 3rd vs 4th option in passing game is something like:
Option 1 - 65+ yards per game
Option 2 - 50+ yards per game
Option 3 - 35+ yards per game (closer to 40+ if a WR, closer to 30+ if a TE)
Option 4 - 20+ yards per game

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-19-2024, 07:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not 100% sure though.
Chase is Option 1 in the offense.
You'd think Higgins Option 2 once he's back.
Iosivas may actually fall to Option 4 if Gesicki keeps playing like he did last game.

FWIW, a player averaging just 30 yards per game ends up still hitting 500 on the season, believe it or not.
If Iosivas ends up 4th option, he might be more around 20-25 YPG, which would end up putting him around 350-450.

Another thing that could dig into Iosivas's production and target share is if the Bengals deploy more 12 personnel, putting WR3 on the bench more.

What I typically expect for average receiving per game for 1st vs 2nd vs 3rd vs 4th option in passing game is something like:
Option 1 - 65+ yards per game
Option 2 - 50+ yards per game
Option 3 - 35+ yards per game (closer to 40+ if a WR, closer to 30+ if a TE)
Option 4 - 20+ yards per game

Great post with lots of logic behind it Ochocincos. The only thing I am sure of is we cannot count on Tee getting and staying healthy 
with the hammy issues. Gesicki certainly looks like quite the weapon in the passing game and might end up being our #2 for all we 
know if Tee cannot get healthy and stay that way. I love that the TE's are actually being featured and Erick All looks like a stud in both
the passing and blocking game. Really like this guy.

Just heard a lot of love for Erick All and Jermaine Burton from Burrow. Would be just fine with me if Iosivas just scores TD's lol

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2024, 01:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Great post with lots of logic behind it Ochocincos. The only thing I am sure of is we cannot count on Tee getting and staying healthy 
with the hammy issues. Gesicki certainly looks like quite the weapon in the passing game and might end up being our #2 for all we 
know if Tee cannot get healthy and stay that way. I love that the TE's are actually being featured and Erick All looks like a stud in both
the passing and blocking game. Really like this guy.

Just heard a lot of love for Erick All and Jermaine Burton from Burrow. Would be just fine with me if Iosivas just scores TD's lol

I'd love it if the Bengals ran a similar offense to early-2010's Patriots.
They had 4 guys with 700+ yards in a heavy 12-personnel set.
Their RBs were similar to Bengals this year with more of a thumper in BJGE and faster dude in Ridley. We kinda got that with Moss and Brown.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-20-2024, 01:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'd love it if the Bengals ran a similar offense to early-2010's Patriots.
They had 4 guys with 700+ yards in a heavy 12-personnel set.
Their RBs were similar to Bengals this year with more of a thumper in BJGE and faster dude in Ridley. We kinda got that with Moss and Brown.

That sounds awesome to me. Just need to make sure we keep targeting Chase a bunch and Burrow can spread it out with the other guys
how he wants. Need to use Burton on some deeps shots though, he is special going down the sideline deep with his hands and speed.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2024, 01:56 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That sounds awesome to me. Just need to make sure we keep targeting Chase a bunch and Burrow can spread it out with the other guys
how he wants. Need to use Burton on some deeps shots though, he is special going down the sideline deep with his hands and speed.

Brady had 4500 yards just to Welker, Branch, Gronk, and Hernandez in 2011.
Absolutely insane for what many considered a dink and dunk offense with poor run game.

Gesicki, Higgins, and Chase are a very good top 3 options in any offense.
It's up to the Bengals to figure out if there will be a true 4th option or if it will be 4th by committee.
If it's a committee, it will be between All and Iosivas.

I'd love to see at least a 50-50 split in 12 vs 11 personnel.
I think it would really help bolster the run game and take some of the pressure off Burrow's shoulders.

[*Synric*]

(09-20-2024, 02:06 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Brady had 4500 yards just to Welker, Branch, Gronk, and Hernandez in 2011.
Absolutely insane for what many considered a dink and dunk offense with poor run game.

Gesicki, Higgins, and Chase are a very good top 3 options in any offense.
It's up to the Bengals to figure out if there will be a true 4th option or if it will be 4th by committee.
If it's a committee, it will be between All and Iosivas.

I'd love to see at least a 50-50 split in 12 vs 11 personnel.
I think it would really help bolster the run game and take some of the pressure off Burrow's shoulders.

It's kinda crazy how much defenses builds have changed since then. Brady was destroying those old school thumper linebackers. In 2011 the Bengals linebackers were like Rey Maualuga, Manny Lawson, Vinny Rey, Dan Skuta, and I think Brandon Johnson(?). That was league norm at the time. Now most LBs look more like Akeem Davis-Gaither 6'1 230ish and fly.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-20-2024, 02:16 PM)Synric Wrote: It's kinda crazy how much defenses builds have changed since then. Brady was destroying those old school thumper linebackers. In 2011 the Bengals linebackers were like Rey Maualuga, Manny Lawson, Vinny Rey, Dan Skuta, and I think Brandon Johnson(?). That was league norm at the time. Now most LBs look more like Akeem Davis-Gaither 6'1 230ish and fly.

Yep teams adapted LBs to help cover against heavier passing offenses.
Those offenses in the 2000's and early 2010's were just abusing those slow, heavy LBs.
Defenses had to evolve to keep up.

Good call out.

[*Synric*]

(09-20-2024, 02:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep teams adapted LBs to help cover against heavier passing offenses.
Those offenses in the 2000's and early 2010's were just abusing those slow, heavy LBs.
Defenses had to evolve to keep up.

Good call out.

And to help run with the Shannahan/Kubiak/McVay zone stretch offense.  Of course now we are seeing an uptick in power rush offenses like Detriot. 

Hopefully with a possible increase in 12 personnel maybe the rush offense opens up a little more in Cincy. Joe is taking alot of hits...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-20-2024, 02:46 PM)Synric Wrote: And to help run with the Shannahan/Kubiak/McVay zone stretch offense.  Of course now we are seeing an uptick in power rush offenses like Detriot. 

Hopefully with a possible increase in 12 personnel maybe the rush offense opens up a little more in Cincy. Joe is taking alot of hits...

Was just watching Inside the NFL last night and Bill Belchick was talking about the Zone stretch offense and how Mike Shanahan started it 
and now both his son and the son of Gary Kubiak are still running it in San Fran and New Orleans. Interesting stuff. I don't think we have the
personnel to run that type of Offense as we are pretty unathletic besides a couple of OL. Maybe we could run more of the power rush like the
Lions do or more 12 personnel as you say to help open up the run game.

Saw some nice holes against the Chiefs for once. Namely for Chase Brown that Erick All was opening up, love this guy.