The Slot is Dead

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 01:28 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I always liked TB and at that price it seems a no-brainer, but he's not exactly putting up numbers. Is being used more as an outlet/safety blanket thus far in Tenn.

We have several talented options at WR 3, but JB always looks to Chase and Tee first. By the time he comes off of each of them, he's usually out of time to make a good throw to any of the others. It's a product of getting killed for 3 years straight, while in the pocket. 

Guys like PM and Brady seem to always have the time to sit back, pat the ball, and wait for a third option to get open. Burrow hasn't had that option. JB makes good reads most of the time and gets rid of it. He has to. Ts, that mindset doesn't allow for many 3rd or 4th option reads. 

We have some dudes, Coaching staff just has to do their job by developing them and SCHEMING some of them open. You know, the shit that Andy Reid does year after year, game after game with Jimmy's and Joes.

Running Burton or Yoshi on the 9 and tossing one up to them once a half is not scheming our third options open. It's a crap shoot play with minimal odds. 

Yoshi was a 6th rounder for a reason. Calling him a dude is an insult to dudes. Burton fell to the 3rd because of his horrid work ethic. NONE of this is surprising. Maybe only to super optimistic homers

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-21-2024, 01:28 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I always liked TB and at that price it seems a no-brainer, but he's not exactly putting up numbers. Is being used more as an outlet/safety blanket thus far in Tenn.

We have several talented options at WR 3, but JB always looks to Chase and Tee first. By the time he comes off of each of them, he's usually out of time to make a good throw to any of the others. It's a product of getting killed for 3 years straight, while in the pocket. 

Guys like PM and Brady seem to always have the time to sit back, pat the ball, and wait for a third option to get open. Burrow hasn't had that option. JB makes good reads most of the time and gets rid of it. He has to. Ts, that mindset doesn't allow for many 3rd or 4th option reads. 

We have some dudes, Coaching staff just has to do their job by developing them and SCHEMING some of them open. You know, the shit that Andy Reid does year after year, game after game with Jimmy's and Joes.

Running Burton or Yoshi on the 9 and tossing one up to them once a half is not scheming our third options open. It's a crap shoot play with minimal odds. 

Joe needs to work with Burton, honestly he is the most talented of the bunch with those hands and quicks. I think the answer is in the 
building and he just needs to get on the same page with the Offense. As Sunset said in another thread, get the audibles down and such.

Like you say Coach, Joe looks to Chase and Tee first every time and that is predictable and that is on Joe. Gesicki has shown flashes at 
TE this year and if Erick All gets the deeper routes he could surprise as well. I like the players in house better than going back to a washed
Tyler Boyd nothing against the guy but he hasn't impressed me in years and not with the Titans either.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 01:28 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I always liked TB and at that price it seems a no-brainer, but he's not exactly putting up numbers. Is being used more as an outlet/safety blanket thus far in Tenn.

We have several talented options at WR 3, but JB always looks to Chase and Tee first. By the time he comes off of each of them, he's usually out of time to make a good throw to any of the others. It's a product of getting killed for 3 years straight, while in the pocket. 

Guys like PM and Brady seem to always have the time to sit back, pat the ball, and wait for a third option to get open. Burrow hasn't had that option. JB makes good reads most of the time and gets rid of it. He has to. Ts, that mindset doesn't allow for many 3rd or 4th option reads. 

We have some dudes, Coaching staff just has to do their job by developing them and SCHEMING some of them open. You know, the shit that Andy Reid does year after year, game after game with Jimmy's and Joes.

Running Burton or Yoshi on the 9 and tossing one up to them once a half is not scheming our third options open
. It's a crap shoot play with minimal odds. 

Context matters, no WR on the titans has 200 yards on the season. Boyd is 13 yards away from being tied for the team high in yards… Ridley.

[XsandOs]

(10-21-2024, 01:17 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm a little less pessimistic. I would like them to expand All's formations and route tree if they want to continue to use him regularly. What they ask him to do he is doing well but he's not being asked much as a receiver. 

This. 

Something beyond just flats. Shallow curls, digs, etc. 

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 01:39 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Context matters, no WR on the titans has 200 yards on the season. Boyd is 13 yards away from being tied for the team high in yards… Ridley.

Bingo. the Titans are a mess. Boyd even in his current advanced age would be the best wr3 on this team. And thats moreso because the princeton guy is...well, a princeton guy, and Charlie Jones is a bust at WR

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 01:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Joe needs to work with Burton, honestly he is the most talented of the bunch with those hands and quicks. I think the answer is in the 
building and he just needs to get on the same page with the Offense. As Sunset said in another thread, get the audibles down and such.

Like you say Coach, Joe looks to Chase and Tee first every time and that is predictable and that is on Joe. Gesicki has shown flashes at 
TE this year and if Erick All gets the deeper routes he could surprise as well. I like the players in house better than going back to a washed
Tyler Boyd nothing against the guy but he hasn't impressed me in years and not with the Titans either.

Tyler Boyd’s career completion percentage is 68%.

completion percentage

2024 - 75
2023 - 68
2022 - 71
2021 - 71

His targets might be down, but I don’t see “washed” regression.

[3wt]

(10-21-2024, 01:17 PM)Synric Wrote: I'm a little less pessimistic. I would like them to expand All's formations and route tree if they want to continue to use him regularly. What they ask him to do he is doing well but he's not being asked much as a receiver. Chase Brown has looked explosive as a runner but hasn't added much to the passing game which I was hoping. Andre Iosivas has not looked good. I hope they at least start giving Jermaine Burton some snaps on the boundary when Chase or Tee are in the slot.

What's been wrong with Iosivas?   Is it a separation thing or contested catching?

He's made some really nice receptions.

It's disturbing that we can't find a way to expand Burton's role and snaps.  The guy has skills.  He gets open, he has speed and he has hands of steel.   He must be a really slow study.   I don't know, but I hope he catches up!  I see him on the sidelines and he does not seem to be pouting or not paying attention.

I have this dream that towards the end of the season he's going to be unveiled as a reliable and dangerous option.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2024, 10:46 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I think it's time to kind of hit the panic button on our WR3 situation.

I was super high on Yoshi coming into the year, but he's been a dissapointment. Same with Geiski.

Other than Higgins and Chase, we haven't had anyone step up to take control of that WR3 spot. We are getting no production out of the slot and aren't working the middle of the field at all.

For anyone who has paid close enough attention (not me), is it more about the routes being called during the plays or these dudes not getting open quickly enough?

I'm not overly worried given the Bengals are 3-1 these past 4 games compared to 0-3 the first 3.
Plus, I don't think the Bengals will make any move for additional pass catchers before the trade deadline, so we're stuck with who they have.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 01:46 PM)3wt Wrote: What's been wrong with Iosivas?   Is it a separation thing or contested catching?

He's made some really nice receptions.

It's disturbing that we can't find a way to expand Burton's role and snaps.  The guy has skills.  He gets open, he has speed and he has hands of steel.   He must be a really slow study.   I don't know, but I hope he catches up!  I see him on the sidelines and he does not seem to be pouting or not paying attention.

I have this dream that towards the end of the season he's going to be unveiled as a reliable and dangerous option.

Iosivas can’t separate. His only real production is on broken and extended plays.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 01:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: For anyone who has paid close enough attention (not me), is it more about the routes being called during the plays or these dudes not getting open quickly enough?

I'm not overly worried given the Bengals are 3-1 these past 4 games compared to 0-3 the first 3.
Plus, I don't think the Bengals will make any move for additional pass catchers before the trade deadline, so we're stuck with who they have.

They cannot separate.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 01:42 PM)XsandOs Wrote: This. 

Something beyond just flats. Shallow curls, digs, etc. 

A tight end is the sprinkles for this offense, it’s not the actual dessert. This team is so reliant on a 3 WR set.

[TecmoBengals]

(10-21-2024, 01:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yoshi on pace for 459 yards with just a 58.3 catch %, 12.5 drop %, and only 1.1 yards after the catch per reception.

We need some better innovation or Chase's back is going to give out from all the weight that's been put on it.

and apparently Chuck  Sizzle or Burton aren't trusted by the coaches to play the slot? 3 targets total between the two of them for the entire year.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-21-2024, 01:42 PM)XsandOs Wrote: This. 

Something beyond just flats. Shallow curls, digs, etc. 

You can only do what you are allowed to do...

Erick All does everything asked of him. Best pick that I didn't initially like maybe ever.

(10-21-2024, 01:44 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Tyler Boyd’s career completion percentage is 68%.

completion percentage

2024 - 75
2023 - 68
2022 - 71
2021 - 71

His targets might be down, but I don’t see “washed” regression.

He is notably slower, Boyd relies on his savvy now. You guys really think that he would be the difference for us?

We need 1 win and we are back to .500 and we have young, talented WR's and young, talented TE's that Burrow just doesn't look to yet.

They will figure it out.

(10-21-2024, 01:46 PM)3wt Wrote: What's been wrong with Iosivas?   Is it a separation thing or contested catching?

He's made some really nice receptions.

It's disturbing that we can't find a way to expand Burton's role and snaps.  The guy has skills.  He gets open, he has speed and he has hands of steel.   He must be a really slow study.   I don't know, but I hope he catches up!  I see him on the sidelines and he does not seem to be pouting or not paying attention.

I have this dream that towards the end of the season he's going to be unveiled as a reliable and dangerous option.

Contested catching thing and the fact Joe just hasn't looked Yoshi's way as much because of it. Burton catches everything and the coaches
just need to get him on the field as long as he doesn't screw up his routes. Seriously think Joe needs to take Jermaine aside and work with 
him to get him up to speed for the 3rd option.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2024, 01:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Iosivas can’t separate. His only real production is on broken and extended plays.

(10-21-2024, 01:48 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: They cannot separate.

According to Next Gen Stats, here are the average yards of separation for the Bengals receivers:
Chase - 3.4 yards
Gesicki - 3.1 yards
Iosivas - 2.7 yards
Higgins - 2.5 yards

So Higgins has less average separation than both Iosivas and Gesicki.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 01:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: According to Next Gen Stats, here are the average yards of separation for the Bengals receivers:
Chase - 3.4 yards
Gesicki - 3.1 yards
Iosivas - 2.7 yards
Higgins - 2.5 yards

So Higgins has less average separation than both Iosivas and Gesicki.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-separation

Higgins was always a contested catch receiver. Except you can trust Tee's hands. Tee makes that catch that Yoshi dropped yesterday

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2024, 01:52 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: and apparently Chuck  Sizzle or Burton aren't trusted by the coaches to play the slot? 3 targets total between the two of them for the entire year.

Feels kinda crappy to spend a 4th round pick on a gloried return specialist in Charlie Jones, no?

I thought when he was picked he was going to be the heir slot receiver after Boyd departed.

Surely the Bengals aren't just too afraid to play him on offense because they need him to return punts, right?

Jones as a perfect skill set for the slot.
He has great speed and agility.
He dominated his final year at Purdue, so it's not like there wasn't tape showing he can translate that speed and agility to the field.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-21-2024, 01:28 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I always liked TB and at that price it seems a no-brainer, but he's not exactly putting up numbers. Is being used more as an outlet/safety blanket thus far in Tenn.

We have several talented options at WR 3, but JB always looks to Chase and Tee first. By the time he comes off of each of them, he's usually out of time to make a good throw to any of the others. It's a product of getting killed for 3 years straight, while in the pocket. 

Guys like PM and Brady seem to always have the time to sit back, pat the ball, and wait for a third option to get open. Burrow hasn't had that option. JB makes good reads most of the time and gets rid of it. He has to. Ts, that mindset doesn't allow for many 3rd or 4th option reads. 

We have some dudes, Coaching staff just has to do their job by developing them and SCHEMING some of them open. You know, the shit that Andy Reid does year after year, game after game with Jimmy's and Joes.

Running Burton or Yoshi on the 9 and tossing one up to them once a half is not scheming our third options open. It's a crap shoot play with minimal odds. 

Will Levis =/= Joe Burrow

Levis is averaging under 140 yards passing per game. The Titan's receiving yard leader is on pace for 518.5 receiving yards in 17 games. NOBODY is there is putting up numbers. Lol

- - - - -

Burrow was certainly not always looking to Chase when he was trying to force feed Irwin Week 2 to give him the most targets of any of our WRs that week, or Tee when Yoshi tied for team lead in targets for Week 3. The options at WR3 just aren't as talented as some hoped.

- - - - - 

Burrow has a 2.72 time to throw this year.

That's compared to 2.54 in 2023, 2.55 in 2022, 2.69 in 2021, and 2.65 in 2020. He's had the most time in his career this year.

Tom Brady's last 2 Super Bowls he had 2.57, and 2.64 time to throw. Not exactly sitting back and patting the ball if Burrow with more time is so lacking it.

[TecmoBengals]

(10-21-2024, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Feels kinda crappy to spend a 4th round pick on a gloried return specialist in Charlie Jones, no?

I thought when he was picked he was going to be the heir slot receiver after Boyd departed.

Surely the Bengals aren't just too afraid to play him on offense because they need him to return punts, right?

Jones as a perfect skill set for the slot.
He has great speed and agility.
He dominated his final year at Purdue, so it's not like there wasn't tape showing he can translate that speed and agility to the field.

This is the mystery. Does he not know the plays? Did Burrow lose confidence in him? Does Zac want to protect his KR/PR guy? Does he just constantly get owned by DBs in practice? I guess Zac, Pitcher, etc has made their choice and are sticking to it: Iosivas is WR3.

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 01:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Feels kinda crappy to spend a 4th round pick on a gloried return specialist in Charlie Jones, no?

I thought when he was picked he was going to be the heir slot receiver after Boyd departed.

Surely the Bengals aren't just too afraid to play him on offense because they need him to return punts, right?

Jones as a perfect skill set for the slot.
He has great speed and agility.
He dominated his final year at Purdue, so it's not like there wasn't tape showing he can translate that speed and agility to the field.

4th round receivers are supposed to be studs to you? I think Burrow and the coaching staff know more about the wr situation than you lol

really, this is bad team building by the front office. "Sure lets replace our trusted slot player for years with an old 4th round guy who always played the outside in college"

[*ochocincos*]

(10-21-2024, 01:56 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Higgins was always a contested catch receiver. Except you can trust Tee's hands. Tee makes that catch that Yoshi dropped yesterday

But the statement I replied to was they aren't separating, which doesn't seem true.

For drops:
Chase - 2 on 41 catchable balls
Iosivas - 3 on 17 catchable balls
Higgins - 4 on 21 catchable balls
Gesicki - 1 on 20 catchable balls

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-wr.php