The real problem - The Trenches

[*bengalfan74*]

You hear all kinds of excuses. When Tee is out we're not good, Burton doesn't know the offense, Moss was a set back, Burrow has regressed, We have no true WR #3, of course the play calling, and on and on. And I'm not saying there isn't any truth there, however.

The true problem is we just aren't good enough up front, in the trenches. We have like 3 can maybe push it to 4 decent O and Dlineman out of 9. We suck at run blocking, we regularly see way too much pressure on JB coming up the middle.

We get very little to no pressure on opposing QB's outside of Hendrickson. We get gashed in the run game. The defense can't get off the field and the offense can't stay on it. Why??

We suck in the trenches.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-28-2024, 09:48 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You hear all kinds of excuses. When Tee is out we're not good, Burton doesn't know the offense, Moss was a set back, Burrow has regressed, We have no true WR #3, of course the play calling, and on and on. And I'm not saying there isn't any truth there, however.

The true problem is we just aren't good enough up front, in the trenches. We have like 3 can maybe push it to 4 decent O and Dlineman out of 9. We suck at run blocking, we regularly see way too much pressure on JB coming up the middle.

We get very little to no pressure on opposing QB's outside of Hendrickson. We get gashed in the run game. The defense can't get off the field and the offense can't stay on it. Why??

We suck in the trenches.

Dig deeper. 

The problem is not paying our good players, letting them walk, and replacing them with inferior, cheaper talent either through free agency or whiffed draft picks. The coaching staff is now being exposed because they can't lean on elite talent. 

It ALWAYS comes back to the front office with this organization. Always. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

The DL is the biggest issue on this team. I believe we had 0 sacks and 1 QB hit yesterday for the whole game. And that was with Fred Johnson in at LT.

Ossai and Murphy look like busts. Hubbard is 2nd on the team in sacks with 2. You won’t win many games like that. And they haven’t.

[WeezyBengal]

(10-28-2024, 09:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The DL is the biggest issue on this team. I believe we had 0 sacks and 1 QB hit yesterday for the whole game. And that was with Fred Johnson in at LT.

Ossai and Murphy look like busts. Hubbard is 2nd on the team in sacks with 2. You won’t win many games like that. And they haven’t.

Rankins has also been a bust of a FA pickup for how much he's getting paid. Been a non difference maker. 

[TheCincinnatiKid]

Yep, trenches are a major problem. They aren't good enough to sufficiently protect our QB or create room for the running game. Thus the offence is working at a deficit with its OL. The DL was once good, but is now older and more knackered. Teams who don't have to fear a DL coming at them will have a far more relaxed time at moving the ball. Especially when that defence cannot stop the run.

Let's face it, we aren't a well built football team. It's great we have Burrow and Chase, but that is not a formula to win on its own. An offence which cannot run the ball or protect the QB, and is relying on great QB play on every down, is not being sufficiently supported. Add on the fact that the offence than has to try and offset an appallingly bad defence and you end up with Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase basically needing to be perfect on every down.

It's quite a short answer if you were to deal with the question 'what are the Bengals strengths'. We aren't at all well-rounded a team.

[*Synric*]

Trenches are indeed the biggest issue. This is a team that has been consistently out physical at the point of attack for a few seasons now.


Bring back the 9 on 7 drill in training camp!

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-28-2024, 09:50 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dig deeper. 

The problem is not paying our good players, letting them walk, and replacing them with inferior, cheaper talent either through free agency or whiffed draft picks. The coaching staff is now being exposed because they can't lean on elite talent. 

It ALWAYS comes back to the front office with this organization. Always.

I don't disagree at all with what you're saying.

I'm just saying the real problem isn't WR's, RB's, TE's the QB, the LBers or DB's or play calling.

IT"S UP FRONT

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-28-2024, 09:54 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The DL is the biggest issue on this team. I believe we had 0 sacks and 1 QB hit yesterday for the whole game. And that was with Fred Johnson in at LT.

Ossai and Murphy look like busts. Hubbard is 2nd on the team in sacks with 2. You won’t win many games like that. And they haven’t.

Agree

But the Oline is a close 2nd

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-28-2024, 10:02 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Yep, trenches are a major problem. They aren't good enough to sufficiently protect our QB or create room for the running game. Thus the offence is working at a deficit with its OL. The DL was once good, but is now older and more knackered. Teams who don't have to fear a DL coming at them will have a far more relaxed time at moving the ball. Especially when that defence cannot stop the run.

Let's face it, we aren't a well built football team. It's great we have Burrow and Chase, but that is not a formula to win on its own. An offence which cannot run the ball or protect the QB, and is relying on great QB play on every down, is not being sufficiently supported. Add on the fact that the offence than has to try and offset an appallingly bad defence and you end up with Joe Burrow and Ja'Marr Chase basically needing to be perfect on every down.

It's quite a short answer if you were to deal with the question 'what are the Bengals strengths'. We aren't at all well-rounded a team.

Exactly

We have the flash and smoke and mirrors. But we don't have the boom and bang where it's needed. We can't force our will on anybody because we lose where it's most important.

[ERIC1]

(10-28-2024, 09:48 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You hear all kinds of excuses. When Tee is out we're not good, Burton doesn't know the offense, Moss was a set back, Burrow has regressed, We have no true WR #3, of course the play calling, and on and on. And I'm not saying there isn't any truth there, however.

The true problem is we just aren't good enough up front, in the trenches. We have like 3 can maybe push it to 4 decent O and Dlineman out of 9. We suck at run blocking, we regularly see way too much pressure on JB coming up the middle.

We get very little to no pressure on opposing QB's outside of Hendrickson. We get gashed in the run game. The defense can't get off the field and the offense can't stay on it. Why??

We suck in the trenches.

excellent post...when the motor  " the Trenches" is not running well ..everything in the car suffers..........our defensively line is laughingly inept..I have seen  some mid level college teams with a better offensive line specific to the running game

[CJD]

(10-28-2024, 09:59 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Rankins has also been a bust of a FA pickup for how much he's getting paid. Been a non difference maker. 

Nearly our entire free agent class has been a bust so far. Geno Stone, Sheldon Rankins and Trent Brown have contributed nothing to this team. Brown you can forgive due to injury, but that was his major known weakness coming in, so they should have anticipated that too.

Vonn Bell looks like he's lost a step too.

Zach Moss and Mike Gesicki have shown glimpses of value, but inconsistency is king with them.


Losing DJ Reader was unforgivable, in my opinion.

[Timanky12]

(10-28-2024, 10:09 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I don't disagree at all with what you're saying.

I'm just saying the real problem isn't WR's, RB's, TE's the QB, the LBers or DB's or play calling.

IT"S UP FRONT

We lost the Super Bowl, because Burrow needed another second or 2, to throw the pass to Chase, who was wide open because the defender was falling down. Instead, he had to dump it off to the running back for incomplete pass.

[Timanky12]

The teams with the biggest front office and scouting staff are the ones who continue to complete for playoff spots and Superbowls.

We hit lightning in a can in 2021 and 2022, but those days are over. This offense is not a power offense, it’s a finesse offense with a couple of weapons, that’s too easy to shut down, when you can’t run the ball.

Until we get professional scouts to help with identifying OL and DL talent, this teams playoff aspirations are done.

[Clark W Griswold]

I agree and to be more specific it’s the interior O line that is a huge problem. I think the tackles are good enough but when you are that bad at C and both G spots you can’t do anything offensively. Can’t run the ball because the middle is stuffed and can’t protect the passer because of constant pressure up the middle. Interior OL and the DL are costing this team games. They are soft and getting beat physically up front. The game film must be really embarrassing for them to watch…

[Fan_in_Kettering]

This is a great thread. Remember the Eagles beat the stuffing out of the Bengals yesterday with two and sometimes three backup offensive linemen.

[*Synric*]

(10-28-2024, 10:57 AM)Timanky12 Wrote: The teams with the biggest front office and scouting staff are the ones who continue to complete for playoff spots and Superbowls.

We hit lightning in a can in 2021 and 2022, but those days are over. This offense is not a power offense, it’s a finesse offense with a couple of weapons, that’s too easy to shut down, when you can’t run the ball.

Until we get professional scouts to help with identifying OL and DL talent, this teams playoff aspirations are done.

The issue isn't the number of scouts. Hell most teams area scouts pull double duty with scouting services. The issue is the Front Office guys who stack the board from those scouting reports. I would guess it's Mike Potts, Duke Tobin, the HC, and Coordinators that do most of the board stacking. 

[Timanky12]

(10-28-2024, 11:13 AM)Synric Wrote: The issue isn't the number of scouts. Hell most teams area scouts pull double duty with scouting services. The issue is the Front Office guys who stack the board from those scouting reports. I would guess it's Mike Potts, Duke Tobin, the HC, and Coordinators that do most of the board stacking. 

Yea, but we have one of the smallest scouting department in the NFL. 

That would be ok if they knew what they are doing, but it’s obvious they don’t.

[ERIC1]

(10-28-2024, 10:57 AM)Timanky12 Wrote: The teams with the biggest front office and scouting staff are the ones who continue to complete for playoff spots and Superbowls.

We hit lightning in a can in 2021 and 2022, but those days are over. This offense is not a power offense, it’s a finesse offense with a couple of weapons, that’s too easy to shut down, when you can’t run the ball.

Until we get professional scouts to help with identifying OL and DL talent, this teams playoff aspirations are done.

  I would tend to agree .. Interetsingly...I would be willing to bet the majority of people that contribute to Jungle noise  have the innate ability to pick out good college  players that would do well in the NFL..But I think there also is a secondary issue just as bad..the coaching and utilization of players.. You have players like Yoshi and Burton that were really good in college...and here ..they disappear...... And you are 100% correct regarding finesse offense..other teams have figured that out...taken away the finesse  and exposed our deficient offense.. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-28-2024, 10:52 AM)Timanky12 Wrote: We lost the Super Bowl, because Burrow needed another second or 2, to throw the pass to Chase, who was wide open because the defender was falling down. Instead, he had to dump it off to the running back for incomplete pass.

Exactly

This is a recurring problem year after year. Oh we've had outlier seasons here and there. But for the most part it's a problem that keeps rearing it's ugly head.

Cappa is getting rag dolled way too often. Volson is serviceable against lower end Dlines but fails playing the big boys. Karras's better days are probably behind him. JB has pressure up the middle way to often.

Not to mention we couldn't run block vs. a good H.S. team.

[The D.O.Z.]

Marion Hobby is the defensive line equivalent to Frank Pollack. Seriously. Look at the talent we’ve given him and what do we have to show for it? Who has he developed? We’ve had Trey as our only consistent pass rush for what, going on three consecutive seasons now? DJ Reader, who is not the alpha and omega of run stoppers, was not retained. So what? Why wasn’t a guy being coached up behind Reader for a couple seasons, groomed to replace him? Oh that’s right, we wasted a pick on Tyler Shelvin, who they couldn’t coach up. How did Zach Carter work out? Myles Murphy? Joseph Ossai’s disappearance for two plus seasons. Am I wrong in this opinion, just wanting to point fingers?