Rapien - Bengals Must Tag Tee Higgins

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-16-2025, 04:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for the stats TLL. Lamar and the Ravens target TE's much more than Joe and the Bengals though. Likely is their best TE now.

How old is Mark Andrews? He has been in the league a while now...

I just like to be able to trust my Receivers to make the big catches in the biggest games. Andrews has choked twice now in big moments.

Gesicki put up his stats on 83 targets and Andrews put his up on a nice 69 targets. 

Adding Likely onto the prior stat comparison....
(69 targets) Mark Andrews: 673 yards (12.1 avg)/11 TDs, 79.7% catch rate
(83 targets) Mike Gesicki: 665 yards (10.2 avg)/2 TDs, 78.3% catch rate
(58 targets) Isaiah Likely: 447 yards (11.4 avg)/6 TDs, 72.4% catch rate

The Ravens TEs collectively had 138 targets in 2024, the Bengals TEs had 155. That's actually 17 more targets for Bengals TEs than Ravens TEs in 2024, the Bengals TEs were just significantly less talented so they turned their targets into much less production.

If you care about PFF, Andrews was the 4th ranked TE, Likely was the 7th ranked TE, and Gesicki was the 14th ranked TE..... Worth noting though is that PFF doesn't penalize for NOT doing something. So a player who is a horrible blocker and thus is never asked to block, will not be have a lowered grade for not blocking where as someone with the exact same grade at receiving who is just mediocre at blocking so is asked to block, will end up with a lower grade despite having more versatility and playing more snaps because of it (it's how Pratt was graded so highly in 2022 before he became a 3 down LB, just outright remove 300 passing downs from his responsibility).

Andrews will be heading into his age 30 season in 2025, same as Gesicki.

- - - - 
Welker had that drop in the SB against the Giants but I wouldn't have turned my nose up at adding him because of it. Good players are just good and you should add them. Lamar must love the fact that Andrews is being focused so much on in their loss. Lets him fade into the background with his back-to-back turnover drives. Also then people casually forget that even if Andrews catches that ball to tie it up, the Bills still had 1:33 and 2 TO to just get a FG for the W.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-16-2025, 05:04 PM)puddycat Wrote: Re: Chart above.. it's fake news.  Click on the chart and you'll see there are 6 NFL teams with even less committed dollars than the Bengals. Yes the Bengals are 26 of 32 and the statement is true that they are the least committed to non-QBs, but the Bengals are not the bottom of the list for committed money.  Don't mislead please.

I suppose I could or should let this go. But it does clearly say that the Bengals have the least for Non-QBs. Also I guess your not used to lists on Twitter they do cut the graphics off and it's not intentional to make the Bengals appear at the bottom it just happens to fall that way. Not fake news.

[pulses]

(02-16-2025, 04:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, when Brian has Will Levis at QB instead of Joe Burrow I would want to run the ball more myself.


I think so, if we have good run blocking and the running game is really working we will see more of a trend to running the ball I am sure of it.

I know Zac and Burrow love to throw the ball, but that is also because we have always had better Receiving weapons than RB's.

Chase Brown is a talent and shown he can be a 3 down back unlike Mixon. He can pass protect. Bring back Khalil Herbert and add a RB in the Draft
and we might actually have some talented RB's that can do a variety of things.


Nice post Ochocincos. That is why Slayton is a thought in a trade.

Slayton is a FA no need to trade for him

[Frank Booth]

(02-16-2025, 05:04 PM)puddycat Wrote: Re: Chart above.. it's fake news. Click on the chart and you'll see there are 6 NFL teams with even less committed dollars than the Bengals. Yes the Bengals are 26 of 32 and the statement is true that they are the least committed to non-QBs, but the Bengals are not the bottom of the list for committed money. Don't mislead please.

Reading comprehension isn’t your strongest asset

[SunsetBengal]

(02-16-2025, 04:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, when Brian has Will Levis at QB instead of Joe Burrow I would want to run the ball more myself.

Yeah, after reading Bfine's thoughts on the matter, I tend to agree with that line of thinking myself.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-16-2025, 05:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Gesicki put up his stats on 83 targets and Andrews put his up on a nice 69 targets. 

Adding Likely onto the prior stat comparison....
(69 targets) Mark Andrews: 673 yards (12.1 avg)/11 TDs, 79.7% catch rate
(83 targets) Mike Gesicki: 665 yards (10.2 avg)/2 TDs, 78.3% catch rate
(58 targets) Isaiah Likely: 447 yards (11.4 avg)/6 TDs, 72.4% catch rate

The Ravens TEs collectively had 138 targets in 2024, the Bengals TEs had 155. That's actually 17 more targets for Bengals TEs than Ravens TEs in 2024, the Bengals TEs were just significantly less talented so they turned their targets into much less production.

If you care about PFF, Andrews was the 4th ranked TE, Likely was the 7th ranked TE, and Gesicki was the 14th ranked TE..... Worth noting though is that PFF doesn't penalize for NOT doing something. So a player who is a horrible blocker and thus is never asked to block, will not be have a lowered grade for not blocking where as someone with the exact same grade at receiving who is just mediocre at blocking so is asked to block, will end up with a lower grade despite having more versatility and playing more snaps because of it (it's how Pratt was graded so highly in 2022 before he became a 3 down LB, just outright remove 300 passing downs from his responsibility).

Andrews will be heading into his age 30 season in 2025, same as Gesicki.

- - - - 
Welker had that drop in the SB against the Giants but I wouldn't have turned my nose up at adding him because of it. Good players are just good and you should add them. Lamar must love the fact that Andrews is being focused so much on in their loss. Lets him fade into the background with his back-to-back turnover drives. Also then people casually forget that even if Andrews catches that ball to tie it up, the Bills still had 1:33 and 2 TO to just get a FG for the W.

Well done TLL. Did not know all that, makes me like the Andrews thought a lot more. We DID pass the ball so much in 2024 and Burrow 
does throw to the open man and the Ravens ran the ball much more than we did so I guess this all makes sense. I think Mike G might have
a better year with more chemistry next year if we do bring him back. Seems like Joe really likes Mike Gesicki so I find this more likely.

Understand with Welker, especially the point about Andrews being the scape goat for Lamar who is actually the choke artist for the Ravens
in the Playoffs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-16-2025, 06:04 PM)pulses Wrote: Slayton is a FA no need to trade for him

Ah, well it makes even more sense than. All I was hearing was trades and the Giants make a lot of sense as far as the players they have and 
the players we need in order to make everything possible to fill our holes in a cheap way.

(02-16-2025, 10:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, after reading Bfine's thoughts on the matter, I tend to agree with that line of thinking myself.

Yep. I understand where you were going. I also understand why Zac throws the ball so much with how sucky of run blocking and RB's we 
have had and how superior Joe and our weapons are. If we actually had good run blocking with good RB's I really think we would run the 
ball more. Joe Mixon was just way too inconsistent to use him as an example IMHO.

Get some good Guards, I like what I saw of Chase Brown last year. Add a couple good RB's and we should see some more balance with the
run/pass ratio.

[wanga]

Was a bad time for a drop but pretty rough to judge him on that. I’m a Gesicki fan but Andrews clearly an upgrade.

[CJD]

I see absolutely no reason not to tag Tee Higgins.

It protects against the worst case scenario (Higgins' camp is demanding too much), it prevents the negotiations from being vs a true free market (where he may be overpaid by a desperate team like New England), and it ensures we are guaranteed compensation if we are forced to part ways with him.

But ultimately, they need to re-sign him. We have the cap space, cash, and the expectation from Joe and the rest of the offense. Not re-signing him would result in a failure of an off season.

[SladeX]

I tag him in order to trade him. Too many injuries, IMHO.

[ClarkHarris4Prez]

(02-14-2025, 11:04 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Why is this so ***** difficult for them?

Just get the deal done. Jeesh.

Right??? God, this organization is so damn exhausting. Paying their best players should be easy. I mean, it's not like they've drafted well. There are only 3-4 guys that deserve big extensions. Why is it like pulling teeth to get it done? It sets a horrible precedent when you can't come to terms with the best WR in the league before last season when the terms were literally RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU (Jeffersons deal.) And Tee coulda been extended 2 years ago for probably 22-25 mil tops. Guess what? Now that they waited BOTH players are more expensive. Make that make sense. You just cost yourself more money! AND showed your whole locker room that even if you do all the right things and play your butt off you are going to have to pull teeth to get them to negotiate a fair deal. Just bad business all around. I will never understand it.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-15-2025, 11:42 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I won't be happy if we let Higgins go but I will accept it. It's possible to sign our guys and still get an upgrade for the OL and DL is what will really be disappointing. That's probably part of the reason I want Higgins back because it is possible if the bengals do what most of the league is doing. Are they willing to change to try and give us the absolute best chance to win a championship? 

I think we know the answer to this question...

It's "Maybe to some extent, but not to the extent like the Eagles and some other teams do."

Bengals, up to this point, have only been configuring any void years to have cap hits the first year after a guy may depart in FA.
Joe Burrow, for example, has a $9 mill cap hit in 2030, the year he hits FA.
We saw Riley Reiff also have one void year to reduce cap.

Compare that to Jalen Hurts, who has 4 void years, where all have cap hits to Eagles.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/player/_/id/47648/jalen-hurts

[jj22]

Every time Tee hit the ground late last season he struggled to get back up.... The injury issue isn't the be all end all but it is getting ignored too much around here.

[NUGDUKWE]

(02-17-2025, 12:57 PM)jj22 Wrote: Every time Tee hit the ground late last season he struggled to get back up.... The injury issue isn't the be all end all but it is getting ignored too much around here.

He has game changing ability when he is on the field as we all know. Yes his injuries are definitely a factor and a risk going forward. But sometimes you just gotta take a swing and we are at the time when we need to. I'm a bengal player Homer so I would much rather take that swing on a guy who has been here rather than someone on the outside.

[QueenCity]

I can see the future headlines..

"Bengals sign Tee Higgins to a monster contract 3 years for $30 mill APY"

"Higgins Hamstring Flairs up in Camp"

"Higgins will miss the first 2-3 games of the season"

"Bengals win their 1st game of the year after starting 0-3 with Tee return to the field"

"Higgins goes down with another injury with the playoff hopes on the line"

[*ochocincos*]

(02-17-2025, 01:12 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I can see the future headlines..

"Bengals sign Tee Higgins to a monster 3 year 30 million deal"

"Higgins Hamstring Flairs up in Camp"

"Higgins will miss the first 2-3 games of the season"

"Bengals win their 1st game of the year after starting 0-3 with Tee return to the field"

"Higgins goes down with another injury with the playoff hopes on the line"

So like...$10 mill a year?

(I know you probably meant 3 years for $30 mill APY, but the wording did not say that)

[QueenCity]

(02-17-2025, 01:15 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So like...$10 mill a year?

(I know you probably meant 3 years for $30 mill APY, but the wording did not say that)

Yes thank you I've made the change.

[jj22]

I do think they were much more flexible with Tee and his practice routine (Wednesdays/Thursdays off) late in the year, and hopefully that helped and will continue.


Although the Saturday walkthrough did him in a couple games too.

[QueenCity]

Rapien just said on twitter the Bengals plan on tagging him. They did also say they plan on trying to extend him long term.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-17-2025, 04:59 PM)QueenCity Wrote: Rapien just said on twitter the Bengals plan on tagging him. They did also say they plan on trying to extend him long term.

Wow, we've not heard that before. It's like groundhog day, all over again.