Tobin on his way out?

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 06:19 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: It’s a well thought out theory. Not sure if it means he’s on his way out, but definitely shows there is some disfunction between GM and ownership. Listening to his “plan” again, it’s almost exactly opposite of what has happened. They haven’t extended anyone one quickly, they haven’t given Tee a long term deal, they haven’t made chase highest paid non QB, they haven’t paid outside free agents. They’ve done the exact opposite and even exactly what he said he didn’t want: the same team on new contracts. He wants the players who deserve raises to get raises and then go get new players to add to the talent. None of that has happened.  

Many have said, me included, this is the most important off season of JB era, and probably in past 20 years. And two years in a row they’ve failed in the offseason. Last year that showed on the field.

The thing is, the Bengals "plan" never works. They could have paid all these guys in the last couple years and been sitting pretty re: the cap. They didn't because they can't "plan". Then their plan at the end of this year was fine until the market went way up and since they can't plan, they end up holding their butts while the numbers skyrocket. It's at this point their plan becomes, default to the norm, lowball everyone, stand pat and "hope" things work out.

Hope is never a plan. 

[Soonerpeace]

The Chase quote couldn’t have sat well. There’s a lot going on. Trey Hendrickson’s situation is very similar to Whit. Extremely popular and has professed his love for living and playing here. Walter Payton award and loved by the important people in Cincinnati. The people whose opinion the Brown’s covet. They told him to wait until after the season and it backfired on them. Chase has backfired on them. Tee … Joe is pushing for. They are juggling so much. I think it’s naive to think Tobin is calling the shots on these high dollar contracts. I’m sure the family is divided.

[jj22]

Then why say so much. If anyone knew what they were working with its Tobin. Why put yourself out there like that unless there is some underlying issue and he didn’t care if he put the family in a bad spot.

Seems he would have toted the co line as he’s always done. . 

[pulses]

(Yesterday, 06:24 PM)J24 Wrote: I don't think this is a bad theory at all but I'm not sure that Duke has the balls to resign.

Nobody said anything about him resigning

[pulses]

(Yesterday, 06:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Honestly makes me think Duke isn't the problem. The plan was sound, just didn't happen and that has to be on the FO not forking
out the proper dough to make it happen.

Could have gotten Justin Reid and let Stone go. Josh Uche a solid rotational pass rusher signed yesterday for 1.5 million and we did nothing. Teven Jenkins still available and we're interested and been days and nothing. Could have signed Ojulari for pass rush and didnt do nothing. Plenty of others as well and we just sit around and not do a damn thing !!!!

[Sled21]

(Yesterday, 07:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So hypothetically, say they keep Chase, Tee, Trey. Extension or whatever.

They still need 2 Guards, a Safety, slot CB, and starting DE. And maybe a LB to replace Pratt.

That's a lot of needs.

Dax Hill will be in the slot CB role this year.

[Sled21]

(Today, 07:42 AM)pulses Wrote: Could have gotten Justin Reid and let Stone go. Josh Uche a solid rotational pass rusher signed yesterday for 1.5 million and we did nothing. Teven Jenkins still available and we're interested and been days and nothing. Could have signed Ojulari for pass rush and didnt do nothing. Plenty of others as well and we just sit around and not do a damn thing !!!!

There are several guard needy teams this year, including KC. Teven Jenkins still being available says he either wants too much, or something else is going on.

[higgy100]

(Yesterday, 06:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Honestly makes me think Duke isn't the problem. The plan was sound, just didn't happen and that has to be on the FO not forking
out the proper dough to make it happen.

Duke was simply the messenger and they wanted to send the great big message to the world, imo, that they really really really really want all 3 players signed and they WILL sign all 3 so they sent duke out there to blow the horn. So when little or nothing happens it won't be the Bengals FO fault as their offers will be just huge and it will be the players fault.They want thos echoed.

Meanwhile. we know that they're asking for the moon for Trey in a trade and they knew this all along.While not a bad strategy, I hope if/when he's retained by the Bengals that they do rip up his current contract and give him a 2-3 year deal for a bunch more money but they won't be lonked to him for long-term in case his skills do erode in a year or two.

[*ochocincos*]

If I'm to blame Tobin for anything, it's drafting players early who need work coming in, but they never developed well enough.
Maybe that was the coaching staff, maybe it was the player, but either way, many of the early draft picks in the past few years have not blossomed.
Myles Murphy
Jackson Carman
Zachary Carter
Ossai until the last month of his 4th season
Jermaine Burton
Maybe Dax Hill? He didn't work out at FS after 2 seasons under contract, but he looked ok in limited games before injury last year and may blossom this year (his final year) at CB

[*ochocincos*]

(Today, 07:42 AM)pulses Wrote: Could have gotten Justin Reid and let Stone go. Josh Uche a solid rotational pass rusher signed yesterday for 1.5 million and we did nothing. Teven Jenkins still available and we're interested and been days and nothing. Could have signed Ojulari for pass rush and didnt do nothing. Plenty of others as well and we just sit around and not do a damn thing !!!!

Even with Teven Jenkins added, that improves, what, one spot in FA?
Slaton probably improves one aspect of one spot (run defense), but the pass rush is still the same as it was last year.
LG really isn't improved between Volson and Ford. We're HOPING for serviceable there this year if that's who they go into the season with.

You have to wonder if the Bengals brass felt they really were like a 12-win team if they hadn't have started the season so slow last year, so they decided they didn't really need much improvement aside from 1-2 new FAs and draft picks.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(Yesterday, 06:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Those pressers and most things that come from the Bengals management are PR. Not direct windows into their motives.

I doubt Tobin is the reason for no extensions. It's likely guaranteed money and timing of it.

His comment about Chase was stupid though.

Yeah, agreed, but that was the most transparent I had ever seen Tobin. I would almost say I know Duke isn't the reason for no extensions. I personally feel like he made HIS intentions known about what HE would do. The hierarchy just isn't smart enough to realize he's right.

[ERIC1]

(Yesterday, 05:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: Writing on the wall reads yes.

The disconnect between Tobin and the FO has never been more exposed, and it's telling from the outside eye looking in.

Look no further than the scouting combine. The FO has completely cut Tobin down at the knees. The usual buttoned up and no news breaking media session was full of Tobin proclamations. He agreed with Burrow (they haven't done anything Burrow wanted). He planed to make sure we have enough to bring in outside talent. Wanted to revamp the defense. Brining in outside FA's.

This wasn't just a misstatement. It was a clear plan he had and was wiling to communicate and articulate. Tobin is wise and has been around long enough to know what to say and to expect, and yet he got it all remarkably wrong.

Insiders are talking that this is significant and if you don't remember the media session, I'd recommend listening to it again below.





People in his position do not take the public blow to their credibility lightly and Tobin can get a GM position elsewhere. This is looking like the beginning of the end for him as it's exposed he has no power after all this time.

Beth and I saw Mike Brown and Katie eating @ Wendys the other night..this is a sure sign that the team is watching expenses so that they cvan sign Higgins to a 37 million dollar a year contract..People in this position just dont eat @ wendys and now its exposed that the Brown family does not have as much money as we thought they did

[ERIC1]

(Yesterday, 06:24 PM)J24 Wrote: I don't think this is a bad theory at all but I'm not sure that Duke has the balls to resign.

I dont think many on here have any patience at all and I dont think anyone on here, sports writers local and nationally have any idea specific to convresations that have taken place

[WeezyBengal]

This thought has crossed my mind on more than one occassion since free agency started.

Seems like there is real disconnect between him and the Blackburns. They are making him look pretty foolish.

Tobin isn't great by any means, but I can see how this would be frustrating beyond beliefe...to have to build a team with your hands basically tied together.

[jj22]

I think at worst he suddenly really cares how he is perceived (who is to take blame) or why else would he make sure we and the national media knew "his vision". Given it was never realistic in his work environment.

The thing is once you get to that point at your job, you typically have 1 foot out the door.

[Soonerpeace]

I would imagine based on history Mike Brown is still calling the shots. On the big money contracts. Tobin has to he frustrated. Huge tug of war. Loyalty to your employer, loyalty to Zac, loyalty to your key players. They want Trey back. They want Tee. Chase isn’t an issue he’ll get done. Zac,Duke, and Burrow all want those key guys back. I’m not naive it’s a tug of war with the agents. There’s no way Duke wanted this to drag on. He’s got the draft & free agency to deal with.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Yesterday, 07:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Didn't happen, or just hasn't happened yet? The Bengals shocked us all when they made all of those moves in 2020 and 2021. They could equally shock us all by announcing the Chase and Higgins deals at the same time. Keeping Trey and signing a Guard that's worth a damn would be the icing on the cake.

I expect us to get Ja'Marr and Trey extended, maybe even Tee too. But Duke said they were trying to get these guys extended before FA 
started and that didn't happen is all I am saying. Agree that in the end you have to look at FA and the Draft as a whole to truly judge, I like
who we brought in and who we brought back. Guard is still the priority though that is for sure.

But there were a lot of good players they could of had that could of improved our OL and pass rush, we will see if whoever they bring in is
as good after other teams move players. Could end up better than blowing our wad prematurely, yah never know lol

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(Today, 07:42 AM)pulses Wrote: Could have gotten Justin Reid and let Stone go. Josh Uche a solid rotational pass rusher signed yesterday for 1.5 million and we did nothing. Teven Jenkins still available and we're interested and been days and nothing. Could have signed Ojulari for pass rush and didnt do nothing. Plenty of others as well and we just sit around and not do a damn thing !!!!

Good examples that would of made all of us really feel like they were showing some urgency. Not doing a damn thing at Guard or for the
pass rush is really frustrating, but it isn't over yet that is for sure. We don't know if Golden sees something in Stone either, but I would of 
rather had Justin Reid even if I don't like the guy, he is a much better player.

Uche or Ojulari would of been great. I know we talked to Ojulari and Teven Jenkins, but talk is cheap.

(11 hours ago)higgy100 Wrote: Duke was simply the messenger and they wanted to send the great big message to the world, imo, that they really really really really want all 3 players signed and they WILL sign all 3 so they sent duke out there to blow the horn. So when little or nothing happens it won't be the Bengals FO fault as their offers will be just huge and it will be the players fault.They want thos echoed.

Meanwhile. we know that they're asking for the moon for Trey in a trade and they knew this all along.While not a bad strategy, I hope if/when he's retained by the Bengals that they do rip up his current contract and give him a 2-3 year deal for a bunch more money but they won't be lonked to him for long-term in case his skills do erode in a year or two.

You think everyone is going to blame the players because Duke sent that message?

I don't, especially Ja'Marr, they were the ones who could of gotten a much cheaper deal done for him before last season and screwed
it up. He turned around and made them pay by winning the triple crown for a WR, he deserves 41+ mil per year now that they said he 
would be paid the most for a non-QB.

Think they handled the Trey situation and the Tee situation right. Trey wanting 35+ mil like he is an all around End and Tee wanting 30
mil per year like he is a true #1 is on them honestly, but this is my opinion. Lots of fans would have them just pay them and would still
blame the FO for not getting it done like they said they would.

[*ochocincos*]

(Yesterday, 10:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The thing is, the Bengals "plan" never works. They could have paid all these guys in the last couple years and been sitting pretty re: the cap. They didn't because they can't "plan". Then their plan at the end of this year was fine until the market went way up and since they can't plan, they end up holding their butts while the numbers skyrocket. It's at this point their plan becomes, default to the norm, lowball everyone, stand pat and "hope" things work out.

Hope is never a plan. 

It feels like the only two months that the Bengals ever try to negotiate extensions with their own players are February (after season is done) and August (after TC starts).

[higgy100]

(6 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good examples that would of made all of us really feel like they were showing some urgency. Not doing a damn thing at Guard or for the
pass rush is really frustrating, but it isn't over yet that is for sure. We don't know if Golden sees something in Stone either, but I would of 
rather had Justin Reid even if I don't like the guy, he is a much better player.

Uche or Ojulari would of been great. I know we talked to Ojulari and Teven Jenkins, but talk is cheap.


You think everyone is going to blame the players because Duke sent that message?

I don't, especially Ja'Marr, they were the ones who could of gotten a much cheaper deal done for him before last season and screwed
it up. He turned around and made them pay by winning the triple crown for a WR, he deserves 41+ mil per year now that they said he 
would be paid the most for a non-QB.

Think they handled the Trey situation and the Tee situation right. Trey wanting 35+ mil like he is an all around End and Tee wanting 30
mil per year like he is a true #1 is on them honestly, but this is my opinion. Lots of fans would have them just pay them and would still
blame the FO for not getting it done like they said they would.

 
I think the Brown family will always deflect blame and apply it somewhere else. My gosh,they already have a terrible reputation.In their minds, last year was decades ago and the deals they have/will still offer will be tremendous in their minds but not tremendous when it comes to NFL/ Great player standards.It's a common message that people/organizations take that seem to be playing checkers when everyone else is playing chess.

These 3 great players didn't all of a sudden become great overnight. Yes,they screwed up with Chase last year and he deserves 41 mm or 40 mm plus one penny over Garrett ESPECIALLY since they sent out their Paul Revere and said he would be the highest plaid non-QB out there.

While most will never understand, so far they've handled Trey correctly, imo. They knew exactly what they were doing especially in their asking price which they had a good idea no team would match. Now, to make it 100% complete they need to rip up Trey's salary and give him a 2-3 year deal with alot of cash up front. If he shows real regression this season or gets hurt or if Osaii and Murphy have monster years then they can release Trey after a year or two years and won't have him locked up long-term.