Golden has ALOT to fix

[SunsetBengal]

(04-07-2025, 06:33 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Maybe he needed higher IQ players.  If the defense isnt significantly better this year under Golden are we going to claim his defense is too complicated and Golden needs to dumb it down?  Lou had the #25 scoring defense last year and people say the defense should have been much better.  Where do our fans think last years defense should have been ranked?

That's a tough question to answer, honestly. After blowing the opening day game versus the Pats, the defense literally played their asses off against KC, but both of the starting DTs went down with injury. Then a few weeks later, the injuries to the secondary and then Wilson came about. I don't know that last year's defense ever had a fighting chance of being more that what their stats and record shows. I do think that Lou should have made some schematic adjustments sooner, as I feel confident that he realized he was rolling with less than his best players out there.

[reuben.ahmed]

(04-07-2025, 06:49 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's a tough question to answer, honestly. After blowing the opening day game versus the Pats, the defense literally played their asses off against KC, but both of the starting DTs went down with injury. Then a few weeks later, the injuries to the secondary and then Wilson came about. I don't know that last year's defense ever had a fighting chance of being more that what their stats and record shows. I do think that Lou should have made some schematic adjustments sooner, as I feel confident that he realized he was rolling with less than his best players out there.

I wonder if our weak ass pass rush is why Lou rushed 3, that single play kicked us out of the playoffs (amongst others), but I don't know how you are going to rush Patrick Mahomes (3) and think he won't make a play. Like if we rush more, we'r not getting to him. So he rushes 3 thinking we will be able to cover for a minute and force him to throw a bad ball (?). Someone explain since I'm dumb.

If Burrow gets all day you're in trouble, then again he has superior receivers.

When Pratt made that dumb interview comment after we missed a million tackles that game, and Lou had no comment and didn't bench him - one should have been fired on the spot. Do Bengals fire coaches mid season? I bet they knew at that time it's over but they were still going to try to make the playoffs.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-07-2025, 08:11 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote:
I wonder if our weak ass pass rush is why Lou rushed 3, that single play kicked us out of the playoffs (amongst others), but I don't know how you are going to rush Patrick Mahomes (3) and think he won't make a play. Like if we rush more, we'r not getting to him. So he rushes 3 thinking we will be able to cover for a minute and force him to throw a bad ball (?). Someone explain since I'm dumb.

If you're talking about the Chiefs game, the reason that he only sent 3 is because both of our starting DTs went down with hamstring injuries in that game. One of the rookies was forced into action, while wearing the "club" on his hand, the other was still dealing with a knee injury. Just where were those other rushers supposed to be coming from??

[Soonerpeace]

I’ve said this many times. I believe that Lou was heavily involved in some of the busts on the defensive side in both the draft and free agency. This defense needs to have a good draft and rebuild it. I’m not so sure Golden wasn’t a part of some of our hits in FA & the draft when he was here.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-07-2025, 09:14 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’ve said this many times. I believe that Lou was heavily involved in some of the busts on the defensive side in both the draft and free agency. This defense needs to have a good draft and rebuild it. I’m not so sure Golden wasn’t a part of some of our hits in FA & the draft when he was here.

What makes you say that? In Golden's brief stint as LB Coach with the Bengals, I don't seem to remember them doing any free agent LB acquisitions. He may have been the impetus behind the Logan Wilson pick as well as ADG.

[Soonerpeace]

(04-07-2025, 09:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What makes you say that? In Golden's brief stint as LB Coach with the Bengals, I don't seem to remember them doing any free agent LB acquisitions. He may have been the impetus behind the Logan Wilson pick as well as ADG.

We’ll see but I think they value Golden’s opinion on evaluations.

[reuben.ahmed]

(04-07-2025, 08:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If you're talking about the Chiefs game, the reason that he only sent 3 is because both of our starting DTs went down with hamstring injuries in that game. One of the rookies was forced into action, while wearing the "club" on his hand, the other was still dealing with a knee injury. Just where were those other rushers supposed to be coming from??

I can understand that, but I think our chance of winning that game was basically zero if we're rushing 3 in that moment. It's crazy to me Mahomes didn't make the completion, pass was kind of wild, our secondary is as bad as our DL lol.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

I hate to say this, but I think the team is fairly comfortable with the DE, DT, LB, and CB groups. And with fairly good reason.

At DE, Hendrickson is a stud and under contract. Tyey paid Ossai $6.5 mil, that's screams starter $$ to me.  They are not giving up on Murphy. Sample was a perfectly fine rotational DE/DT prior to injury. And Johnson played pretty well in linited snaps last year. That's 5. Thomas & R. Johnson are PS level guys or pissible cover for Sample if he is not recovered.

I think there is certainly room for 1 more. But I think they think Hendrickson, Ossai, Murphy, Sample, & C. Johnson is workable if they whiff at the draft.

Speaking of, there is not really a HR DE type likely at #17. Stewart has the traits but no production. Green, Pearce, & Williams are not true DE's and have personal or production flags. Ezeiruaku also is sub 250, and not really a true DE or surefire top 20 guy. Once you get into roynd 2 guy (Scourton, JTT, Sawyer, Jackson), are they that much better than round 3-4 types (Gillotte ,Burch,  Ivey, Jones). Same thing with Pearce/Green & the 2nd wave of Ezeiruaku, Kennard, Stewart, Umanmielen.

It is easy to talk yourself into waiting a round (or two) at DE/Edge because it is thin at the top and deep in the middle. If a roughly equivalent player is available later, why not pounce on a thinner spot first?

Especially when 3/4 of your rotational spots are already spoken for. Unless the player is gonna walk in and be DE2 and better than Ossai & Murphy, why waste a premium pick on a rotational guy when we are in win now mode?

The same thing happens at DT. Hill & Slaton are your starters. Jenkins and Jackson are both gonna play and should both improve, though both are more run stoppers than pass rushers. Do we need interior pass rush? Yes. But I do not see a surefire fix. Nolen has flags and grades out better vs the run. Harmon looks like more of a rotational guy who can help in pass rush. And Grant benefitted from playing next to Graham and is a NT besides. After those 3, who are legit mid/late first/early 2nd, and maybe Alexander & Williams (also a better run stopper), you get into Rd3/4/5 pretty quick.

If I can nab a surefire starter/upgrade at S (Emmanwori, Starks), G (Booker, Zabel, Jackson), LB (J. Campbell), or a stud at another position drops to us (Walker, Warren, Loveland, W. Campbell, Membou, Johnson, Barron), I like that more at #17. 

And the same thing happens at #49: Watts, Savaiinaea, Ratledge, and some of the CBs with CB1 potential like Porter, Revel, Thomas, Morrison, etc. all seem more appealing to me than a DT/DE guy who is relatively the same as the guy I can get at #81. 

It is EASY to get to R3 without having taken a DL guy yet: S, OG, DB, LB, TE all make sense too, depending on how it falls. 

It is not a super strong LB class. And I can see us shifting away from 5 MLB types to more Vyper/Edge guys and 4-3 OLB types. More speed, less thump. But Wilson, Pratt,,Burks is a decent top 3. Good enough to go on with. Heyward is pretty athletic. Njongmeta a thumper type and the most likely to not be on the roster if we take a LB, unless Pratt is dealt. 

Even at CB, we have 3 above average guys. CTB, Turner, & Hill are OK, though there is no CB1 there. Fig is adequate depth but in trouble as a starter. We could use one more, but could also live with what we have + Ivey & Wilson. 

Safety is another thing. The starters we have are both worse than any of our other defensive starters: Trey/Ossai, Hill/Slaton, Wilson/Pratt, and CTB/Turner/Hill. AND the backups are worse/totally unproven. Certainly worse than Murphy/Sample & Burks. And I'd say Jenkins/Jackson & Fig/Ivey/Wilson as well. 

[sandwedge]

(04-11-2025, 03:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I hate to say this, but I think the team is fairly comfortable with the DE, DT, LB, and CB groups. And with fairly good reason.

At DE, Hendrickson is a stud and under contract. Tyey paid Ossai $6.5 mil, that's screams starter $$ to me.  They are not giving up on Murphy. Sample was a perfectly fine rotational DE/DT prior to injury. And Johnson played pretty well in linited snaps last year. That's 5. Thomas & R. Johnson are PS level guys or pissible cover for Sample if he is not recovered.

I think there is certainly room for 1 more. But I think they think Hendrickson, Ossai, Murphy, Sample, & C. Johnson is workable if they whiff at the draft.

Speaking of, there is not really a HR DE type likely at #17. Stewart has the traits but no production. Green, Pearce, & Williams are not true DE's and have personal or production flags. Ezeiruaku also is sub 250, and not really a true DE or surefire top 20 guy. Once you get into roynd 2 guy (Scourton, JTT, Sawyer, Jackson), are they that much better than round 3-4 types (Gillotte ,Burch,  Ivey, Jones). Same thing with Pearce/Green & the 2nd wave of Ezeiruaku, Kennard, Stewart, Umanmielen.

It is easy to talk yourself into waiting a round (or two) at DE/Edge because it is thin at the top and deep in the middle. If a roughly equivalent player is available later, why not pounce on a thinner spot first?

Especially when 3/4 of your rotational spots are already spoken for. Unless the player is gonna walk in and be DE2 and better than Ossai & Murphy, why waste a premium pick on a rotational guy when we are in win now mode?

The same thing happens at DT. Hill & Slaton are your starters. Jenkins and Jackson are both gonna play and should both improve, though both are more run stoppers than pass rushers. Do we need interior pass rush? Yes. But I do not see a surefire fix. Nolen has flags and grades out better vs the run. Harmon looks like more of a rotational guy who can help in pass rush. And Grant benefitted from playing next to Graham and is a NT besides. After those 3, who are legit mid/late first/early 2nd, and maybe Alexander & Williams (also a better run stopper), you get into Rd3/4/5 pretty quick.

If I can nab a surefire starter/upgrade at S (Emmanwori, Starks), G (Booker, Zabel, Jackson), LB (J. Campbell), or a stud at another position drops to us (Walker, Warren, Loveland, W. Campbell, Membou, Johnson, Barron), I like that more at #17. 

And the same thing happens at #49: Watts, Savaiinaea, Ratledge, and some of the CBs with CB1 potential like Porter, Revel, Thomas, Morrison, etc. all seem more appealing to me than a DT/DE guy who is relatively the same as the guy I can get at #81. 

It is EASY to get to R3 without having taken a DL guy yet: S, OG, DB, LB, TE all make sense too, depending on how it falls. 

It is not a super strong LB class. And I can see us shifting away from 5 MLB types to more Vyper/Edge guys and 4-3 OLB types. More speed, less thump. But Wilson, Pratt,,Burks is a decent top 3. Good enough to go on with. Heyward is pretty athletic. Njongmeta a thumper type and the most likely to not be on the roster if we take a LB, unless Pratt is dealt. 

Even at CB, we have 3 above average guys. CTB, Turner, & Hill are OK, though there is no CB1 there. Fig is adequate depth but in trouble as a starter. We could use one more, but could also live with what we have + Ivey & Wilson. 

Safety is another thing. The starters we have are both worse than any of our other defensive starters: Trey/Ossai, Hill/Slaton, Wilson/Pratt, and CTB/Turner/Hill. AND the backups are worse/totally unproven. Certainly worse than Murphy/Sample & Burks. And I'd say Jenkins/Jackson & Fig/Ivey/Wilson as well. 

100% agree with all of this. Good job of writing it out as you did. I have posted a few times, that after Carter, pretty much the rest of the DEs are clones of each other. I think S or OG will be the pick at #17 personally.