Trey Hendrickson Update

[*psychdoctor*]

Trey signed the extension for whatever the reason. He did so under his own volition. Was it the right decision? Turns out no. That is life. He is a man of God. He should be handling this better. He needs to kick his agent to the curb. Be a man, play out you contract, then sign a new contract with better money that comensurates with value of play.

[BrownAssClown]

Well it all depends what the Bengals promised last year. I know Trey and his agent wanted to renegotiate his contract last season but were told it was against league rules to do so. I also heard it mentioned that if Trey played at a high level last season then the front office would take care of him with a new contract this season. I believe Trey and his agent were wrong last year but the Bengals MAY be wrong this year. It all comes down to what was promised. I don't like that Trey has went public with this but I watched his whole statement today as he answered questions. I think he feels he held up to his end of the bargain last year, he produced at a high level and now he wants to be treated right by the front office. Like I said, I wish Trey would have kept this behind closed doors but the text he got from Zac yesterday set him off. I also don't like the way Troy and Katie handle the business side of things sometimes. Watch the video on how Andrew Whitworth talks about how Troy and Katie handled his situation. I hope everything works out to everyone's satisfaction but Trey said he's not playing this season under his current contract so something is going to have to give. I know Trey loves football and he loves Cincinnati but I can see him retiring and walking away from the game. He puts God and his family above all else.

[J24]

(11 hours ago)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We have around $17.6 mil in actual cap space (top 53, picks paid, PS cost). 

Taking Trey from $16 mil to $32 would eat almost all of it. No $$ for injury replacements or rollover for next year. Or a G or safety FA. 

Now, we could create around $9.5 mil more by waiving Pratt ($5.85) + Volson ($3.66). But that would only push us to $27 mil. 

That is the cap situation.

They don't need to allocate 32 million in cap space for Trey if they get a deal done with him. His extension should be a Minimal increase or perhaps decrease in cap space.

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 02:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: I don't have the data handy, I posted it before here, but essentially the decline of pass rushers post 30 is about as sure of a thing as you can bet on outside of HB's. Usually the elite guys will have one more elite year (at some points over the span of that contract not necessarily 1st year) then a mix bag of injuries and awful years, but usually both. I mean look at Dunlap and Atkins just in context of former Bengals, they fell into that trend themselves. It's not just them it's actually almost all of the biggest pass rushers of the last 10 years or so with a couple exceptions. Maybe Trey is that exception, but if he isn't the downside is pretty devastating.  

The reality is the Bengals probably have already gotten the best years out of Trey. They are trying to limit their exposure in the decline and it's not wrong it's just uncomfortable. Us having nothing outside of him doesn't mean he still won't most likely decline quickly in the lifespan of this contract. You can't let one bad situation compound into another, that's just throwing good money after bad. 

I remember the Dunlap/Atkins contract and decline. 

If the Bengals simply hadn't botched the extension in '23, they would most likely be fine now and with a 3 yr extension, they'd have him this year and next, with relatively little loss, minus any kind of injury. 

I don't doubt the 30+ decline with pass rushers, when it takes everyone into account. The elite pass rushers are usually more productive for longer. If you look at the top 20 sack leaders, here's the number of double digit sack seasons they had from age 30 year to retirement. 
7, 6, 3, 7, 4, 3, 5, 5, 2, 4, 3, 3, 2, 3, 4, 2, 3, 4, 5, 3.  All but three had at least 3 seasons of double digit sacks in their 30+ years. The three that didn't were LT, Demarcus Ware and Jared Allen, who retired in their 34, 34 and 33 year seasons, respectively. The rest of them played to their 35-40 year old season. 

Trey just had a double digit sack season in his 30 year old season and i don't think it's out of the question to expect him to have at least 2 more good to great years before you see a noticible dip. 

Knowing the way the Bengals operate, he'll probably go to another team and end up with 40 more sacks before he hangs them up, along with some All Pro honors and maybe a ring, ala Whitworth.

[J24]

Regardless of who is right and who is in the wrong this circumstance. Trey should have been traded or signed before the free agent negotiating window started. Where now in May and still have zero clarity of the situation.

Also , the FO needs to be the bad guys in this situation and not the coaches. I don't want to see a civil war between coaches and players erupt. The lack of accountability from the FO is embarrassing .

The Blackburns and Duke need to grow some damn balls and handle this situation before it effects the damn locker room.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: What I took from Trey's comments was that he wants a long term deal, and evidently the team must be offering a shorter term deal.

I have an issue if the 'long term deal' is like 4 years, at his current age. Unless they front load it and give themselves an out later, or with much lower cap hits. I'm no NFL FO dude or capologist, but you can't tell me they couldn't do a deal that would give them outs towards the end of the contract. Teams do that all the time, even with much younger players. 

The time to do the long term deal was after '23 when they gave him that whopping 1yr 21M "extension". They could have given him a 4 yr extension then, with an out that 4th year, or some kind of shit that other NFL teams come up with to pay their players but give them a chance to get out of paying for non-production.

Bottom line is, they totally ****** up the chance to extend him...once again...at a lower number than they would have to pay right now, if they had done it right after '23.

[Millhouse]

(9 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: I have an issue if the 'long term deal' is like 4 years, at his current age. Unless they front load it and give themselves an out later, or with much lower cap hits. I'm no NFL FO dude or capologist, but you can't tell me they couldn't do a deal that would give them outs towards the end of the contract. Teams do that all the time, even with much younger players. 

The time to do the long term deal was after '23 when they gave him that whopping 1yr 21M "extension". They could have given him a 4 yr extension then, with an out that 4th year, or some kind of shit that other NFL teams come up with to pay their players but give them a chance to get out of paying for non-production.

Bottom line is, they totally ****** up the chance to extend him...once again...at a lower number than they would have to pay right now, if they had done it right after '23.

Same here, as I felt that way with Geno Atkin's last deal for 4 years when he was 30. Maybe unless this one is very front heavy for first two years or something but yeah.

Also agreed with last part. Bengals keep Bengaling.

(at least Geno got paid tho, he deserved it)

[Bengalitis]

Trey has 2 yrs left, anything after that he will either not get paid what he wants and play for his legacy.. or fight for high pay, have low results and not get anything thereafter as no one may sign him.

I say, take the money and see what's out there and negotiate for the big bucks, thats why you pay your agent good $$$$$. If the Bengals refused their promises to him last season or did him a dirty sanchez, then he should retire (lose $14 mill) or play to get paid, injury-free at 50% effort.

[2MinutesHate]

The way I see it, we will get 1 or 2 more good seasons out of Trey.  I'd do a 2 years/$55 million dollar deal with $35 million guaranteed.  Trey will be 31 before the season ends.  I don't think this is a Whitworth situation because it's a completely different position.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-total-sacks-from-age-30-season

The stats above tend to indicate that we will see somewhat of a regression from him this season.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(9 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: I have an issue if the 'long term deal' is like 4 years, at his current age. Unless they front load it and give themselves an out later, or with much lower cap hits. I'm no NFL FO dude or capologist, but you can't tell me they couldn't do a deal that would give them outs towards the end of the contract. Teams do that all the time, even with much younger players. 

The time to do the long term deal was after '23 when they gave him that whopping 1yr 21M "extension". They could have given him a 4 yr extension then, with an out that 4th year, or some kind of shit that other NFL teams come up with to pay their players but give them a chance to get out of paying for non-production.

Bottom line is, they totally ****** up the chance to extend him...once again...at a lower number than they would have to pay right now, if they had done it right after '23.

Agree, 3 year deal at the most now with him getting up there in age.

[samhain]

This is a needlessly dumb situation.

Trey holds all of the short term cards. That's a situation of the team's construction. Insistence on waiting to address extensions costs them money every time. They can't seem to do two things at once. As a result, we are looking at a very pedestrian defense with it's best player's foot halfway out the door. Their most impactful acquisition this offseason (Stewart) is a huge wild card. We'll be lucky if he compliments Trey at all, much less replaces his production.

The likelihood of this defense sucking again is substantial. Way too many unproven rookies and a first time DC with too much on the line. This is the case with or without 91, but without him it goes from substantial to likely. If the organization blows another prime Burrow year because they half-measured this defensive overhaul, the problems compound. You're entering Burrow trying to get out of town territory. There is a 100 percent chance that if Trey doesn't suit up or continues to hold grievance parties with the media, fans will blame this situation for any defensive shortcomings, guaranteed.

Conversely, any aspirations Trey has to get paid are up to the team. He can sit, but they can waste his prime years with team control. Any short term problem he can create can and likely will be repaid tenfold. The Bengals will feel some pain from the disgruntled fans, but they'll get by. Trey will pay for his tantrum for the rest of his and his family's life. You're talking about leaving what would probably amount to at least 60 mil on the table if you consider career earnings. He's already rich, but that's a lot of money to spend on pride.

[Bengalitis]

(9 hours ago)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree, 3 year deal at the most now with him getting up there in age.

1-2 yr deal but very incentivized a better route? reward the results type of contract perhaps? 3 yrs seems to long if we get 2 bad years outta him..

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(10 hours ago)J24 Wrote: They don't need to allocate 32 million in cap space for Trey if they get a deal done with him. His extension should be a Minimal increase or perhaps decrease in cap space.

Yeah, that is what everyone thought for Chase & Tee. It did not happen.

He is on the books for $16.8 or whatver. If we want to up it to $32, that is plus $15 mil. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 02:29 PM)Nepa Wrote: The one comment from Trey that irks me is this: "Hendrickson: If I sat here with four sacks, they'd want a little (money) back." 

If he sat here with four sacks, he and his agent would be insisting the Bengals front office sticks with the contract already signed. I'm in favor of Hendrickson getting more money, but he can't have it both ways.

Not sure why that irks you. We just had Moss and Stone take pay cuts or be cut i assume. So that should definitely go both ways. He's apparently been asking for a better contract for 3 years and more than held up his side. I think the Bengals never had any intentions of giving him a contract based on how they structured all other contracts this year front loading them leaving little room for a bigger cap hit. 

[Sled21]

(9 hours ago)samhain Wrote: This is a needlessly dumb situation.  

Trey holds all of the short term cards.  That's a situation of the team's construction.  Insistence on waiting to address extensions costs them money every time.  They can't seem to do two things at once.  As a result, we are looking at a very pedestrian defense with it's best player's foot halfway out the door.  Their most impactful acquisition this offseason (Stewart) is a huge wild card.  We'll be lucky if he compliments Trey at all, much less replaces his production.  

The likelihood of this defense sucking again is substantial.  Way too many unproven rookies and a first time DC with too much on the line.  This is the case with or without 91, but without him it goes from substantial to likely. If the organization blows another prime Burrow year because they half-measured this defensive overhaul, the problems compound.  You're entering Burrow trying to get out of town territory.  There is a 100 percent chance that if Trey doesn't suit up or continues to hold grievance parties with the media, fans will blame this situation for any defensive shortcomings, guaranteed.

Conversely, any aspirations Trey has to get paid are up to the team.  He can sit, but they can waste his prime years with team control.  Any short term problem he can create can and likely will be repaid tenfold.  The Bengals will feel some pain from the disgruntled fans, but they'll get by.  Trey will pay for his tantrum for the rest of his and his family's life.  You're talking about leaving what would probably amount to at least 60 mil on the table if you consider career earnings.  He's already rich, but that's a lot of money to spend on pride.

Trey has zero cards to play. He's under contract this year and can be tagged twice. He can retire, but if he comes back the Bengals still own his rights and can do the same thing. He can loaf all season, but good luck getting a big money deal at 32 with a bad season. He has to ball out this year to get interest anywhere else next year. 

[J24]

(9 hours ago)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Yeah, that is what everyone thought for Chase & Tee. It did not happen.

He is on the books for $16.8 or whatver. If we want to up it to $32, that is plus $15 mil. 

Tee is getting 30 per a year and is allocated 24 million in cap space. Chase is getting 40 a year and is allocated 23.5 million a year.

I am certain that Trey cap hit won't double in price.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: What I took from Trey's comments was that he wants a long term deal, and evidently the team must be offering a shorter term deal.

Bingo. That's what the guys on twitter who are usually right, deduced as well (me too: a lot of, "my family needs to be taken care of," and not a lot of, "I'm underpaid," type of talk in his interview).

(11 hours ago)Big_Ern Wrote: The browns have a very expensive qb

Who the Browns owner has thrown a ton of his business/personal cash at to skirt the cap rules and all that. The Browns (family) can't do that.

(10 hours ago)psychdoctor Wrote: Trey signed the extension for whatever the reason.  He did so under his own volition.  Was it the right decision?  Turns out no.  That is life.  He is a man of God.  He should be handling this better.  He needs to kick his agent to the curb.  Be a man, play out you contract, then sign a new contract with better money that comensurates with value of play.

I agree, but I'll go one better and to simply accept what the Bengals HAVE offered him or, at the very least, work with them and not just flat-out say, "they're disrespecting me."

The optics are bad on both sides and both sides dropped the ball: the initial ball-dropping was on his agent, the follow-up is on both of them.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 02:39 PM)Au165 Wrote: I don't have the data handy, I posted it before here, but essentially the decline of pass rushers post 30 is about as sure of a thing as you can bet on outside of HB's. Usually the elite guys will have one more elite year (at some points over the span of that contract not necessarily 1st year) then a mix bag of injuries and awful years, but usually both. I mean look at Dunlap and Atkins just in context of former Bengals, they fell into that trend themselves. It's not just them it's actually almost all of the biggest pass rushers of the last 10 years or so with a couple exceptions. Maybe Trey is that exception, but if he isn't the downside is pretty devastating.  

The reality is the Bengals probably have already gotten the best years out of Trey. They are trying to limit their exposure in the decline and it's not wrong it's just uncomfortable. Us having nothing outside of him doesn't mean he still won't most likely decline quickly in the lifespan of this contract. You can't let one bad situation compound into another, that's just throwing good money after bad. 

All the data I've seen of DEs that fit the production profile of Trey say that he will most likely  gradually decline rather than drop off a cliff. Seems like a sensible risk and one worth taking on a player that's played as well as Trey has for us.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(9 hours ago)Bengalitis Wrote: 1-2 yr deal but very incentivized a better route? reward the results type of contract perhaps? 3 yrs seems to long if we get 2 bad years outta him..

Sounds good to me. Agree, it has to be incentive laden like Tee's deal was. I think they end up getting something done down the road.

But I still think it would be smart for him to hire a new agent like Tee did as well. Been a ton of questionable stuff coming from this guy 
for the last couple of years. Trey has shown no sign of falling off yet, but as history shows it happens at his age to Ends.

[masonbengals fan]

He's been everything we want in a Bengal. Pay the man.