Notes From Training Camp 2025

[Sled21]

(07-25-2025, 01:25 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: That is a really good day for a guy fighting to be our 4th or 5th WR. At a minimum, it is tape Bengals could use to trade him. But, it sure seems like he is growing as a football player. Let's see if he contines to progress and how he does in preseason games. 

He's always been a good football player, he needed to grow as a person. I think he has, at least I hope he has, everything seems to be pointing in that direction. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-25-2025, 02:59 PM)Sled21 Wrote: He's always been a good football player, he needed to grow as a person. I think he has, at least I hope he has, everything seems to be pointing in that direction. 

Watching his interaction he seems more comfortable in the group. Last year he always seemed out of place and a little goofy. 

[Sled21]

(07-25-2025, 03:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Watching his interaction he seems more comfortable in the group. Last year he always seemed out of place and a little goofy. 

Yeah, he never seemed to talk to anybody, and it seemed like everyone ignored him on the sideline (probably because of his antics). He seems to be enjoying his teammates this year, and they seem to be embracing him. That has to lead to good things one would think.

[*Synric*]

Sounds like they are getting a good look at Tahj Brooks early in camp.

Zac Taylor and Dan Pitcher have said throughout the Spring how impressed they are with Tahj Brooks’ pass catching ability out of the backfield.

The rookie RB logged three catches - two check downs and one designed route - in the first set of 11v11’s.@WLWT

— Jaron May (@jaron_may) July 25, 2025

[*ochocincos*]

What if Bengals actually knew Burton had (plenty of) maturity issues and factored that into the development plan for him to "grow up" his first year (or two) and didn't really have plans for him to contribute much to the offense last year after all?

I was pretty down on him after last year's shenanigans, but it would be pretty nice to have him contribute 400+ yards or something like that this year as WR3/4.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-25-2025, 03:23 PM)Synric Wrote: Sounds like they are getting a good look at Tahj Brooks early in camp.

Zac Taylor and Dan Pitcher have said throughout the Spring how impressed they are with Tahj Brooks’ pass catching ability out of the backfield.

The rookie RB logged three catches - two check downs and one designed route - in the first set of 11v11’s.@WLWT

— Jaron May (@jaron_may) July 25, 2025

Sounds like they are catching up to what some of us saw in draft season 

[Luvnit2]

(07-25-2025, 02:59 PM)Sled21 Wrote: He's always been a good football player, he needed to grow as a person. I think he has, at least I hope he has, everything seems to be pointing in that direction. 

I would agree he was a good college football player, but good is often not good enough in the NFL. He arrived as a head case, immature and seemed to grasp the playbook. This resulted in an inability to run the entire route tree and everyone knew when he was on the field he was likely to run some type of deep go pattern so opposing CB's could just assume he was going deep and plan accordingly.

I am hopeful he puts in as much work in the classroom as he does on the field. He is on a team with 2 of the best route runners in the NFL so hopefully some of that rubs off on him.

No doubt he has the physical skills to be a good NFL WR, now as you said needs to continue to grow as a person and develop that Chase mindset of I will be great because he gets to do so he has to work his ass off.

[Luvnit2]

(07-25-2025, 03:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What if Bengals actually knew Burton had (plenty of) maturity issues and factored that into the development plan for him to "grow up" his first year (or two) and didn't really have plans for him to contribute much to the offense last year after all?

I was pretty down on him after last year's shenanigans, but it would be pretty nice to have him contribute 400+ yards or something like that this year as WR3/4.

Of the WR's on our roster not Chase and Higgins, he is the only one with the athletic ability to play #1 or #2 if one of them get hurt. If he could develop into a 3rd threat, hopefully they all play all 17 games, but realistically not likely so would be huge to have a better option than in 2024 when one of our top 2 WR's went down to injury.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-25-2025, 04:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Of the WR's on our roster not Chase and Higgins, he is the only one with the athletic ability to play #1 or #2 if one of them get hurt. If he could develop into a 3rd threat, hopefully they all play all 17 games, but realistically not likely so would be huge to have a better option than in 2024 when one of our top 2 WR's went down to injury.

Iosivas has the athletic ability too.

Actually, Iosivas is slightly faster than Burton (4.43 vs 4.45) but also bigger (6'3", 210 vs 6'0", 204).
Iosivas and Burton both had elite explosive scores when doing drills.
Iosivas also scored elite in agility drills, but Burton did not do those drills.

Honestly, if the Bengals pick up Fant, have Iosivas backing up Higgins and Burton backing up Chase on the outside, and then Gesicki the main slot.

[Soonerpeace]

(07-25-2025, 02:59 PM)Sled21 Wrote: He's always been a good football player, he needed to grow as a person. I think he has, at least I hope he has, everything seems to be pointing in that direction. 

They thought their WR room ( a great position group) would really mature Burton. Didn’t work out that way. I’d expect someone finally got to Jermaine. He was so close to getting dumped. He’s pure knucklehead. I’ve heard so many things. Not bad things just pure knucklehead things. Just too many of them.

[WeezyBengal]

(07-25-2025, 05:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Iosivas has the athletic ability too.

Actually, Iosivas is slightly faster than Burton (4.43 vs 4.45) but also bigger (6'3", 210 vs 6'0", 204).
Iosivas and Burton both had elite explosive scores when doing drills.
Iosivas also scored elite in agility drills, but Burton did not do those drills.

Honestly, if the Bengals pick up Fant, have Iosivas backing up Higgins and Burton backing up Chase on the outside, and then Gesicki the main slot.

Yoshi's RAS score is elite, but to me it doesn't seem like it translates to the field all that well. He seems to play slower, has trouble getting seperation, etc. Rarely do you see him beat defenders with his speed or quickness. 

[Essex Johnson]

(07-25-2025, 03:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sounds like they are catching up to what some of us saw in draft season 

Or affirming the nice pick they felt they made

[Luvnit2]

(07-25-2025, 05:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Iosivas has the athletic ability too.

Actually, Iosivas is slightly faster than Burton (4.43 vs 4.45) but also bigger (6'3", 210 vs 6'0", 204).
Iosivas and Burton both had elite explosive scores when doing drills.
Iosivas also scored elite in agility drills, but Burton did not do those drills.

Honestly, if the Bengals pick up Fant, have Iosivas backing up Higgins and Burton backing up Chase on the outside, and then Gesicki the main slot.

I like Yoshi, but he does not play like he is an elite athlete. I want to see Burton's abilities displayed on the shorter routes, I may be wrong but think he may be quicker in and out of breaks.

[Luvnit2]

(07-25-2025, 05:23 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yoshi's RAS score is elite, but to me it doesn't seem like it translates to the field all that well. He seems to play slower, has trouble getting seperation, etc. Rarely do you see him beat defenders with his speed or quickness. 

I like Yoshi but agree

[*ochocincos*]

(07-25-2025, 05:23 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yoshi's RAS score is elite, but to me it doesn't seem like it translates to the field all that well. He seems to play slower, has trouble getting seperation, etc. Rarely do you see him beat defenders with his speed or quickness. 

I haven't gone back to try to watch any games from last year, but for anyone that has, was it more that Iosivas doesn't exhibit those traits on the field, or could it be more around the playcalling for when, where, and how Iosivas is getting the ball?

I like to compare different players at a position, and in this case, it'd be slot WR.
Boyd averaged 11.7 YPR with the Bengals, so he is good to compare to.
We generally consider him a "good" slot guy.
Iosivas had a 13.3 YPR last year, so he might actually be more dynamic than a more standard/typical slot guy, and being in the slot and running those routes might be making it more difficult for him to get more open by having him on shorter routes and having more defenders around him vs being on the outside or better scheming?
For Iosivas to have a 13.3 YPR but only a long of 39 yards last year shows me he's been productive when making receptions and it's not just a few really long receptions skewing his YPR.

EDIT - Two other of the big slot receivers with the Bengals the past couple decades also were in the 11 YPR range - Housh (11.4 YPR) and Sanu (11.8 YPR). I think in general, most slot receivers are just not overly dynamic and it can impact their productivity. Julian Edelman, one of the outside great slot receivers, had 11.0 YPR. So 10-12 YPR is pretty typical for even "good" slot WRs. If Iosivas can have >12, that's pretty good.

[Luvnit2]

(07-25-2025, 05:09 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:
They thought their WR room ( a great position group) would really mature Burton. Didn’t work out that way. I’d expect someone finally got to Jermaine. He was so close to getting dumped. He’s pure knucklehead. I’ve heard so many things. Not bad things just pure knucklehead things. Just too many of them.

Sure they wanted him to mature, just not sure they felt he would be awesome in 2024 since they knew he had those issues. Maybe they felt it would take 2 to 4 years as some WR's do. TJ was one of my favorites of all time, he took years to develop into a very good #2 WR.

[Luvnit2]

(07-25-2025, 05:27 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I haven't gone back to try to watch any games from last year, but for anyone that has, was it more that Iosivas doesn't exhibit those traits on the field, or could it be more around the playcalling for when, where, and how Iosivas is getting the ball?

I like to compare different players at a position, and in this case, it'd be slot WR.
Boyd averaged 11.7 YPR with the Bengals, so he is good to compare to.
We generally consider him a "good" slot guy.
Iosivas had a 13.3 YPR last year, so he might actually be more dynamic than a more standard/typical slot guy, and being in the slot and running those routes might be making it more difficult for him to get more open by having him on shorter routes and having more defenders around him vs being on the outside or better scheming?
For Iosivas to have a 13.3 YPR but only a long of 39 yards last year shows me he's been productive when making receptions and it's not just a few really long receptions skewing his YPR.

You may be correct and I am being overly critical. I have the concerns for the super athletic Murphy, superb on paper, but does not show up on game day film. I hoe Golden can unleash his athletic ability as well, we need him to be much better in 2025.

[*pally*]

(07-25-2025, 05:23 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yoshi's RAS score is elite, but to me it doesn't seem like it translates to the field all that well. He seems to play slower, has trouble getting seperation, etc. Rarely do you see him beat defenders with his speed or quickness. 

Yoshi came into the league as a 6th round project.  Princeton was hardly the hotbed of football, and keep in mind he also kept his body in track shape.

Each year, he has remade his body to be quicker and stronger.  He has worked with a private coach during the off-season to improve his receiving skills. I don't think any player on the team has progressed further from his draft position than he has

[NUGDUKWE]

(07-25-2025, 05:23 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Yoshi's RAS score is elite, but to me it doesn't seem like it translates to the field all that well. He seems to play slower, has trouble getting seperation, etc. Rarely do you see him beat defenders with his speed or quickness. 

I never did have super high expectations for Yoshi but I wonder if he fits more of that traditional WR mold of needing a few years to develop. I could see him having a little bit of a breakout even if it's just being a little more impactful between the 20s instead of just redzone.

[Soonerpeace]

(07-25-2025, 05:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sure they wanted him to mature, just not sure they felt he would be awesome in 2024 since they knew he had those issues. Maybe they felt it would take 2 to 4 years as some WR's do. TJ was one of my favorites of all time, he took years to develop into a very good #2 WR.

They were pissed. They weren’t waiting. They wanted him to be #3 receiver.