QB Index by Gregg Rosenthal

[djs7685]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132?campaign=fb-nf-sf12966187-sf12966187

Interesting, sort of.

He puts Aaron Rodgers at 1 by himself.

This is the "top shelf" under Rodgers.

2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Andrew Luck
4. Tom Brady
5. Matt Ryan
6. Philip Rivers
7. Drew Brees
8. Tony Romo
9. Russell Wilson
10. Peyton Manning

This is the "next level".

11. Cam Newton
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Ryan Tannehill
15. Eli Manning
16. Sam Bradford
17. Carson Palmer
18. Teddy Bridgewater
19. Colin Kaepernick

Andy is included with the "stuck in the middle" crowd.

20. Alex Smith
21. Jay Cutler
22. Andy Dalton
23. Blake Bortles
24. Nick Foles

"The rookies"

25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

Finally, "the question marks"

27. Derek Carr
28. Kirk Cousins
29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
30. Tyrod Taylor
31. Josh McCown
32. Brian Hoyer

People always seem to have interesting things to say about Rosenthal's objectivity. I'm not sure if he's being biased, but I disagree with a handful of his rankings. Some of these seem strange. I won't get to really look much more into this until later though, but figured I'd post it before I had to go for a while.

His 1 simple statement about Andy Dalton is "Dalton is a poor man's Smith", and I'm not so sure how accurate that is.

[GreenCornBengal]

I saw this and contemplated bringing it over here, but he does his QB index thing so much I decided not to.

Once you get past 10, I think its a wash... and mostly personal opinion.

11. Cam Newton
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Ryan Tannehill
15. Eli Manning
16. Sam Bradford
17. Carson Palmer
18. Teddy Bridgewater
19. Colin Kaepernick
20. Alex Smith

21. Jay Cutler
22. Andy Dalton
23. Blake Bortles
24. Nick Foles
27. Derek Carr

I think you could mix these up a number of ways. For instance, why is Derek Carr so low? Statistically he had a better season than Bridgewater.

I guess the author goes off of the 'eye test' but even then... Sam Bradford at 16? Tannehill at 14? There are definitely some flaws. I would move Dalton up a few spots but its all opinion from about 11-32 if you ask me.

[J24]

How is Newton 11?

[J24]

I also have a problem with Carson ranking. His last full season he threw 24 Tds to 22 INTs.

[kevin]

(09-10-2015, 04:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132?campaign=fb-nf-sf12966187-sf12966187

Interesting, sort of.

He puts Aaron Rodgers at 1 by himself.

This is the "top shelf" under Rodgers.

2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Andrew Luck
4. Tom Brady
5. Matt Ryan
6. Philip Rivers
7. Drew Brees
8. Tony Romo
9. Russell Wilson
10. Peyton Manning

This is the "next level".

11. Cam Newton
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Ryan Tannehill
15. Eli Manning
16. Sam Bradford
17. Carson Palmer
18. Teddy Bridgewater
19. Colin Kaepernick

Andy is included with the "stuck in the middle" crowd.

20. Alex Smith
21. Jay Cutler
22. Andy Dalton
23. Blake Bortles
24. Nick Foles

"The rookies"

25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

Finally, "the question marks"

27. Derek Carr
28. Kirk Cousins
29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
30. Tyrod Taylor
31. Josh McCown
32. Brian Hoyer

People always seem to have interesting things to say about Rosenthal's objectivity. I'm not sure if he's being biased, but I disagree with a handful of his rankings. Some of these seem strange. I won't get to really look much more into this until later though, but figured I'd post it before I had to go for a while.

His 1 simple statement about Andy Dalton is "Dalton is a poor man's Smith", and I'm not so sure how accurate that is.

Who is Gregg Rosenthal ???.....I really don't know off hand who he is....and I sure don't know on what he is basing this list on....Big Ben is # 2 and Peyton Manning is # 10.......Tony Romo and Matt Ryan are ahead of Peyton Manning ????......He can't be going on careers.....He can't be going on last season......Does Rosenthal live where they legalized pot smoking ???......This list is based on nothing and he just pulled it out of his rear end. .......So here is Dalton who in 4 years in the NFL has started 64 straight regular season games and taken the Bengals to 4 straight play-off seasons. A team that only won 4 games in 2008 and 4 games in 2010 before Dalton came here, and with Dalton, 4 straight winning seasons for the first time in Bengals History. Ken Anderson, Boomer Esiason, Jeff Blake and Carson Palmer never put together 3 or 4 straight play-off seasons. Dalton has been to 2 Pro Bowls in his first 4 years. Dalton, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning are the only QB's to throw 20 touchdown passes in each of their first 3 seasons. Dalton set the Bengals season record in passing yards in 2013. ...OK, no play-off wins, but it was amazing the lousy awful Bengals were even led by new players to the play-offs in 2011 and 2012, and in 2014 the team had no receivers at Indy due to injuries all season...The 2013 play-off loss to Chargers in Cincy hurt....but, to say Dalton stinks because of this one game is stupid.  With Carson refusing to play, the rookie came in and led this team to 4 straight play-off seasons, twice as many as Ken Anderson who only did 2 in a row once. Dalton right now has the best winning percentage of all Bengals quarterbacks in Bengals history. ....and Rosenthal has 2 rookies right behind Dalton who have not played one game in the NFL yet......This is a very stupid list.

Enough of this stupid list....There are real games to be played, starting tonight. ...It's time to start the regular season....Gee, everybody had RG3 rated way above Dalton also the last few years, what happened....These lists mean nothing. It's time for NFL regular season. GO Bengals, beat Raiders.....

Peyton Manning at # 10 ????????????????????????????????????????

Here is a list of Quarterbacks who have got their teams to last 4 play-offs : Brady, Rodgers, Dalton......that is it, just those 3....and this list is based on facts, not nonsense.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-10-2015, 04:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132?campaign=fb-nf-sf12966187-sf12966187

Interesting, sort of.

He puts Aaron Rodgers at 1 by himself.

This is the "top shelf" under Rodgers.

2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Andrew Luck
4. Tom Brady
5. Matt Ryan
6. Philip Rivers
7. Drew Brees
8. Tony Romo
9. Russell Wilson
10. Peyton Manning

This is the "next level".

11. Cam Newton
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Ryan Tannehill
15. Eli Manning
16. Sam Bradford
17. Carson Palmer
18. Teddy Bridgewater
19. Colin Kaepernick

Andy is included with the "stuck in the middle" crowd.

20. Alex Smith
21. Jay Cutler
22. Andy Dalton
23. Blake Bortles
24. Nick Foles

"The rookies"

25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

Finally, "the question marks"

27. Derek Carr
28. Kirk Cousins
29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
30. Tyrod Taylor
31. Josh McCown
32. Brian Hoyer

People always seem to have interesting things to say about Rosenthal's objectivity. I'm not sure if he's being biased, but I disagree with a handful of his rankings. Some of these seem strange. I won't get to really look much more into this until later though, but figured I'd post it before I had to go for a while.

His 1 simple statement about Andy Dalton is "Dalton is a poor man's Smith", and I'm not so sure how accurate that is.

Only real problem I have with it is that I think Brady and Manning should be up there with Rogers (yeah, I know we're all expecting Peyton to decline, but until he actually does, I think he should be right there).

I also think Bridgewater, Kaepernick, Bradford, and Palmer need to be dropped down to "stuck in the middle" level. That's not to say a guy like Bridgewater will stay there, but he's not at that level yet. I would also move Carr to that same level as well.

Outside of that, I don't have any issues with his list.

[Wes Mantooth]

For the life of me I don't get why everyone is so down on Peyton Manning. He threw 4700 yards, 39 TD's and had a 101 rating last season and everyone is acting like he's fallen off so much. That yardage total is the 2nd highest of his career. The TD total is the 3rd highest of his career. The rating is the 5th highest.

He's one year removed from the greatest season in the history. His last three years maybe the greatest stretch ever player by a QB. How the hell is he 10th? Cuz he's old? So is Brady, so is Brees. Peyton Manning ranked at 10 is a joke.

[Wes Mantooth]

Don't get why Bridgewater is 9 spots ahead of Carr either. They should be in a similar category.

[BengalChris]

The top 10 as a group is pretty set and hard to argue with, except the order.

Most notable disagreements I have are:

Newton hasn't done anything yet, so don't get how he's 11.

Eli has two SBs and I would put him at 11 or so.

Kaepernick belongs below Dalton.

[*ochocincos*]

(09-10-2015, 05:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: The top 10 as a group is pretty set and hard to argue with, except the order.

Most notable disagreements I have are:

Newton hasn't done anything yet, so don't get how he's 11.

Eli has two SBs and I would put him at 11 or so.

Kaepernick belongs below Dalton.

Yes he does. While Kaepernick has a strong arm and can run, he is inaccurate. He reminds me of slightly better Terrelle Pryor.

I don't understand the love for him.

[PlayerFormerlyKnownAsMousecop]

(09-10-2015, 04:24 PM)djs7685 Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132?campaign=fb-nf-sf12966187-sf12966187

Interesting, sort of.

He puts Aaron Rodgers at 1 by himself.

This is the "top shelf" under Rodgers.

2. Ben Roethlisberger
3. Andrew Luck
4. Tom Brady
5. Matt Ryan
6. Philip Rivers
7. Drew Brees
8. Tony Romo
9. Russell Wilson
10. Peyton Manning

This is the "next level".

11. Cam Newton
12. Joe Flacco
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Ryan Tannehill
15. Eli Manning
16. Sam Bradford
17. Carson Palmer
18. Teddy Bridgewater
19. Colin Kaepernick

Andy is included with the "stuck in the middle" crowd.

20. Alex Smith
21. Jay Cutler
22. Andy Dalton
23. Blake Bortles
24. Nick Foles

"The rookies"

25. Jameis Winston
26. Marcus Mariota

Finally, "the question marks"

27. Derek Carr
28. Kirk Cousins
29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
30. Tyrod Taylor
31. Josh McCown
32. Brian Hoyer

People always seem to have interesting things to say about Rosenthal's objectivity. I'm not sure if he's being biased, but I disagree with a handful of his rankings. Some of these seem strange. I won't get to really look much more into this until later though, but figured I'd post it before I had to go for a while.

His 1 simple statement about Andy Dalton is "Dalton is a poor man's Smith", and I'm not so sure how accurate that is.

Gotta love how "stuck in the middle" is very clearly not in the middle.

[Okeana]

Ok ok ok. I have stayed middle of the road with Dalton neither hating him or loving him, but I know one thing. He's a damn sight better that Cutler.

[GreenCornBengal]

 I think this would be a better choice of section names and rankings for the QBs

The Fantastic Four:
(1)1. Aaron Rodgers
(2)4. Tom Brady
(3)10. Peyton Manning
(4)3. Andrew Luck

Cream of the Crop:
(5)2. Ben Roethlisberger
(6)7. Drew Brees
(7)6. Philip Rivers
(8)8. Tony Romo
(9)9. Russell Wilson

Above Average QB:
(10)13. Matthew Stafford
(11)5. Matt Ryan
(12)12. Joe Flacco
(13)11. Cam Newton
(14)15. Eli Manning

Your Average QB:
(15)20. Alex Smith
(16)22. Andy Dalton
(17)14. Ryan Tannehill
(18)19. Colin Kaepernick
(19)21. Jay Cutler

Mystery Flavor:
(20)17. Carson Palmer
(21)24. Nick Foles
(22)16. Sam Bradford
 
Young and Promising:
(23)18. Teddy Bridgewater
(24)27. Derek Carr
(25)23. Blake Bortles
(26)28. Kirk Cousins

The Rookies:
(29)26. Marcus Mariota
(28)25. Jameis Winston

Career Backups:
(29)31. Josh McCown
(30)32. Brian Hoyer
(31)29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
(32)30. Tyrod Taylor


If you wanted to give grades for each section.. they would be as follows

Fantastic Four - A+
Cream of the Crop - A
Above Average - B
Average - C
Mystery Flavor, Young and Promising, Rookies - D
Career Backups - F

I feel like this grading and positioning of QBs sits well with the grades they were given.

Dalton gets a C... which sounds just about right.

[jj22]

Gregg has never been a fan of Daltons (not that he has many).

As long as Dalton continues to lead the team to the playoffs he's number 12 at the worse in my book. Even with his issues. The worse playoff qb okay, that he has been. But that's still number 12. Gregg can take all those other qb's ahead of Dalton while they watch the playoffs every year from their couches. Good luck with that.

I remember when Matt Ryan lost all his weapons. They ended the season 4-12. Dalton loses his and still gets 10 wins relatively easily (should have been 11). That with a 22nd ranked defense ranked last in sacks.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-10-2015, 05:54 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote:  I think this would be a better choice of section names and rankings for the QBs

The Fantastic Four:
(1)1. Aaron Rodgers
(2)4. Tom Brady
(3)10. Peyton Manning
(4)3. Andrew Luck

Cream of the Crop:
(5)2. Ben Roethlisberger
(6)7. Drew Brees
(7)6. Philip Rivers
(8)8. Tony Romo
(9)9. Russell Wilson

Above Average QB:
(10)13. Matthew Stafford
(11)5. Matt Ryan
(12)12. Joe Flacco
(13)11. Cam Newton
(14)15. Eli Manning

Your Average QB:
(15)20. Alex Smith
(16)22. Andy Dalton
(17)14. Ryan Tannehill
(18)19. Colin Kaepernick
(19)21. Jay Cutler

Mystery Flavor:
(20)17. Carson Palmer
(21)24. Nick Foles
(22)16. Sam Bradford
 
Young and Promising:
(23)18. Teddy Bridgewater
(24)27. Derek Carr
(25)23. Blake Bortles
(26)28. Kirk Cousins

The Rookies:
(29)26. Marcus Mariota
(28)25. Jameis Winston

Career Backups:
(29)31. Josh McCown
(30)32. Brian Hoyer
(31)29. Ryan Fitzpatrick
(32)30. Tyrod Taylor


If you wanted to give grades for each section.. they would be as follows

Fantastic Four - A+
Cream of the Crop - A
Above Average - B
Average - C
Mystery Flavor, Young and Promising, Rookies - D
Career Backups - F

I feel like this grading and positioning of QBs sits well with the grades they were given.

Dalton gets a C... which sounds just about right.

Why is Flacco "above average" when he is below Dalton in career rating, yards per game, and TD%?  

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-10-2015, 06:00 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Why is Flacco "above average" when he is below Dalton in career rating, yards per game, and TD%?  

Same reason Eli Manning is.

(basically, history prevails in my rankings for the most part)

It's all opinion anyway, I could look over this a week from now and think it is completely bogus

[J24]

(09-10-2015, 05:15 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: For the life of me I don't get why everyone is so down on Peyton Manning.  He threw 4700 yards, 39 TD's and had a 101 rating last season and everyone is acting like he's fallen off so much.  That yardage total is the 2nd highest of his career.  The TD total is the 3rd highest of his career.  The rating is the 5th highest.  

He's one year removed from the greatest season in the history.  His last three years maybe the greatest stretch ever player by a QB.  How the hell is he 10th?  Cuz he's old?  So is Brady, so is Brees.  Peyton Manning ranked at 10 is a joke.

He struggled at the end of last season but I agree with you on him not being done.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-10-2015, 06:07 PM)J24 Wrote: He struggled at the end of last season  but I agree with you on him not being done.

He obviously wasn't 100% at the end of last season, but he still is a top 3 QB until he proves he isn't.  

[type_stripe]

Interesting rankings.

For his comment on Dalton, I think don't think either is the poor version of the other. But from the year by year progression, it looks like Dalton has more upside than Smith (but how much more?).

Bridgwater and Carr should both be in "Question Marks" though. Teddy could possibly move up the ranks within the season, but not sure how many spots. Carr looks like a poor man's Dalton so if he does move up, I don't see him moving anywhere higher than the "stuck in the middle", or possibly even the rookies on that list.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

(09-10-2015, 06:00 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Why is Flacco "above average" when he is below Dalton in career rating, yards per game, and TD%?  

Super Bowl Ring