The Steelers are just better than the Bengals

[Hoofhearted]

I thought we'd file this under "no shit, Sherlock" category. It's not even remotely close.

[mhbsavant]

(11-09-2018, 11:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It pains me to say this, but the Steelers have just been better than the Bengals in every phase of football and from an organizational standpoint over the past few years.

Of course they beat us on the field, but they are also drafting and getting better players and have better systems and schemes on the field. Thats what really worries me. Their offensive line was built over the past few years to be one of the best in the NFL, ours has fallen flat on its face. They reloaded at receiver with JuJu, Jesse James, and now Vance McDonald. We have John Ross who has serious durability and ability concerns. Their best offensive player decides he doesnt want to play so they plug in a rookie James Connor who is tearing it up.

Their defense is rounding into form and is taking off...ours is self destructing. Someone in that organization is doing a hell of a job with player personnel and scouting because that team just continues to reload and get it right while we continue to tread water.

This isn't a thread to build the Steelers up, its a thread to compare. The Steelers are going to be REAAAALLY good up until they lose the stability of Ben at QB and even after that im not sure that they don't go out and somehow find another HOF QB to replace him.

To be honest, the Steelers would have incorporated Auden Tate into their offense, and most teams would be concerned about his ability to make plays nine games into the season. Regardless of Tate's deficiencies, they would have found a way to use him by now. The Bengals draft players because they have to it seems....I'm guessing the organization couldn't just skip their pick.?


The Steelers would have gotten rid of Paul Alexander quicker, Bodine.... I can go on and on. The ways the Steelers get their best players the ball is just amazing. Imagine trying to keep up with a guy that may be superior to you as a wideout and running back and trying to defeat the scheme also.... Either you fail to the scheme, or you fail to the player. Give the Steelers Josh Malone, and they would find a way to get him on the field, and they would scheme to get a guy that is 6'2" and runs a 4.3 the ball

[*Nately120*]

(11-09-2018, 03:31 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Yep.  They caught lightning in a bottle with Ben.  They were pretty mediocre before he came along.
Remember Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox?

Ben was the 11th overall pick and he was taken by a stable franchise with an elite defense during his early years.  Its not exactly amazing that he is good.  

Clearly he is better than Kordell and an XFL QB.  Ben wasn't exactly a hidden gem or a late round steal (not that the Browns thought it wise to take him).

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-09-2018, 01:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I can say whatever I like and I think the DL (their 3 is better than our 4), call it scheme or whatever, but Heyward, Tuitt and Hargrove get more push consistently than our DL or as much. On the running game Hargrove is a space eater and 2X better run defender NT than our DT's.

Last night the Steeler's DL dominated the Panthers OL, 5 sacks and a ton of pressures. McCaffrey did find running lanes, but normall outside the tackle box (LB responsibility and not DL).

Christ, why the hostility in that first line? I never give you any shit for anything.

Indeed you can say what you want, but the numbers don't lie and they spell disaster for your argument (don't mean that seriously, just fits a line Scott Steiner said lol).

Dunlap and Geno alone, are a better twosome than the 3 of the Stoolers are a threesome.

And that's a fact.

[WeezyBengal]

(11-09-2018, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to PFF from '07 through '15 the Bengals O-line was the best in the league at pass blocking.




In 2009 our opening day O-line featured 3 starters (Roland, Livings, Cook) who were undrafted free agents with a combined 13 games played in the NFL (3 starts).  Luckily PA was able to coach up a player who had been cut by two teams in 2 years (Mathis) and a second year 4th round pick (Collins).

I am sure that is exactly what Paul asked for

Can I see where you got this from? I just looked up 2011 - 2015 and 2013 was the only year they were ranked first in pass blocking. All of the other years they were from 8-10. 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-09-2018, 12:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s a pretty low bar. I don’t think Tomlin is all that great. With the talent he’s had over the years he should have won more than 1 SB. Even with the Pats dominance during his tenure. I like his aggressiveness, but I don’t think he has much control over his locker room. I wonder what Belichick could have done with some of those teams...

I wonder what Belichick could've done with some of these Bengals teams...

(11-09-2018, 12:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s certainly a big part of it. Especially when you’re replacing a coach as inept as Jeff Fisher.

Unfortunately we’re probably not going to get the opportunity to see what this core (Andy, AJ, Geno, Los) could do under a better coach.

This genuinely makes me sad to think about. A lot of big questions will never get answered. At least with Palmer, we got to see him elsewhere...and he went to an NFC championship game.

(11-09-2018, 01:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: They'll draft another QB high when Ben is actually going to retire.  The Steelers aren't known for turning late-round QBs into HOFers.  Bradshaw was the 1st overall pick, they took Ben at #11.  Getting a lot out of Rudolph is possible, but it would go against their history.

Anyways, the whole "just wait til' Ben retires" mindset is loser talk, but I can see why we have it.  It's a shame after the promise of our 2011 reboot that we technically had to wait a decade or so to actually have a chance at blah blah blah.  Who cares...even when we won the division some other team kicked our unworthy arses out of the playoffs.

Honestly, we've been better than the Steelers what...9 or 10 times in the past 50 years?  What else is new.

...and still have nothing to show for it...at least during the Marvin era.

(11-09-2018, 01:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The way things are now (and subject to change, of course) we play the Steelers in week 17 and then we play them in the WC round.  So we will be too beat up to beat them...then we will be back in the familiar position of praying the Patriots/Cheifs can prevent the Steelers from winning a 7th SB because lord knows WE can't stop them.



It's possible, but I don't see this as a sign Mike Brown has turned over a new leaf, rather I picture him dusting off his hands and saying "There...I did something after waiting for 2 years.  My job here is done, back to the status quo."  I just don't see Mike Brown building upon this accomplishment when the rest of his resume shows he loves to spend years resting on every plateau.

Exactly how I see it. He brought back Mervy and knew that would do the opposite of sell tickets, so he countered that by making other moves. Tickets still aren't selling even at 5-3...so I doubt we see more moves this offseason. Don't blame the fans for not buying in, blame Mikey for being dense/oblivious/apathetic towards fans and how much damage he's done to his relationship with them over the years.

[Tomkat]

(11-09-2018, 01:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Saw DeCastro hold about 10 times last night. Was there a call?

Nope.  Not a single holding call on the O-line, all game.  Impossible in the NFL.
Here are 2 BLATANT holds on the TD pass to AB.  The O-lineman have their arm ACROSS THE NECK of the defender, holding the outside shoulder... conveniently missed by the officials.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-09-2018, 03:24 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Generally speaking, this is the direction we need to see them head toward. It will take a combination of a committed participation in free agency plus a successful draft. And that might still be short of the goal of getting it done next off season. Had we seen this in recent years though, we might not be having such discussions. Why this team hangs on to 3rd and 4th year players (and coaches) while they produce next to nothing is beyond me. It has become less than satisfying to think/say that it's all on Mike Brown or Marvin, especially if it's 100% true. We're stymied as fans, I guess. 

Luckily, the Bengals currently look to have $58 mill in cap space for 2019 and that is already counting Atkins and Dunlap extensions. They'll reserve about $8-10 mill for draft picks and another $5 mill for injuries, so really that number goes down to about $43-45 mill to spend in FA (including internal). That should still be plenty to re-sign and extend some guys (specifically Boyd and Boling) while also getting an impact FA or two.

They do have a wide array of upcoming FAs, and I expect at least a few of these will be re-signed (in order of my preference):
Dennard
Kroft
Uzomah
Hopkins
Brown
Eifert
Rey
Redmond
Fisher
Hart
Ogbuehi

What will hinder this progression will be to hold back $10+ mill in cap space yet again to carry over to next year. You can't ever truly make that leap if you constantly hold back for the future. 

[WeezyBengal]

(11-09-2018, 03:20 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: With the talent they have, they should be in AFC title game most every year.

Disagree with this. The past few years they havent had the talent. They havent had a decent compliment to AJ, the offensive line has been terrible, and the defense has been porous and inconsistent. Burfict has missed games more than hes played games and Eiffert has constantly been hurt. They havent had a team that could win anything since 2015. 

[Shake n Blake]

(11-09-2018, 03:52 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Christ, why the hostility in that first line? I never give you any shit for anything.

Indeed you can say what you want, but the numbers don't lie and they spell disaster for your argument (don't mean that seriously, just fits a line Scott Steiner said lol).

Dunlap and Geno alone, are a better twosome than the 3 of the Stoolers are a threesome.

And that's a fact.

Agreed. We just don't get any pressure elsewhere and I believe that hurts Atkins/Dunlap.

If you're an opposing offense scheming the Bengals, who all are you worried about? Neutralize those 2 and the pressure is gone.

[Shake n Blake]

As for Ben, he hasn't made it to a Super Bowl since that team was being led by a legendary Dlck LeBeau defense.

He's good for a couple big stat games every year, but I don't think he belongs in the same breath as Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

He's closer to Philip Rivers, IMO. Had Philip traded places with Ben for their careers, I don't think the Chargers would have 2 Lombardi's (or even 1) tbh.

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2018, 03:53 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Can I see where you got this from? I just looked up 2011 - 2015 and 2013 was the only year they were ranked first in pass blocking. All of the other years they were from 8-10. 

https://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line


Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.

[J24]

Outside of the offensive line I think both teams are evenly matched when it comes to talent when healthy. Here is the thing though we're not healthy right now if we we're we would be a lot better.

[BengalYankee]

(11-09-2018, 12:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: That’s a pretty low bar. I don’t think Tomlin is all that great. With the talent he’s had over the years he should have won more than 1 SB. Even with the Pats dominance during his tenure. I like his aggressiveness, but I don’t think he has much control over his locker room. I wonder what Belichick could have done with some of those teams...

Tomlin and his coaching staff developed their talent. The lame excuse of the Steeler's being Cowher's team was just an excuse not to give Tomlin credit. One can say with all the talent that Cowher had over 15 years of coaching he had won 1 SB. Nobody dominated the full 15 years of Cowher..
I wonder what Belichick could have done with the 15 years of the Steelers??? 

[XenoMorph]

(11-09-2018, 04:57 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Outside of the offensive line I think both teams are evenly matched when it comes to talent when healthy. Here is the thing though we're not healthy right now if we we're we would be a lot better.

their OL is a beast... I hate it lol

[fredtoast]

(11-09-2018, 05:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: their OL is a beast... I hate it lol

The stonewalled our pass rush.

By far the biggest difference between the teams.

[Tomkat]

(11-09-2018, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They stonewalled our pass rush...

Easy to do, when you can hold with impunity.

[Bengalstripes9]

The Steelers have the mental edge on us. Its gotten worse since the playoff loss. As a team, we have just as much talent. A mental edge makes a huge difference.

[bengaloo]

Our offense is good enough to play with anyone. Our defense is our weakness and unless Austin pulls a miracle, its going to continue to be our weakness. I just cant see us being in the same category as the top teams. We are much improved from last year on offense, but our defense has regressed badly so far. Most yards given up in NFL history is a terrible statistic to be on pace for lol. Ugh.

We are close tho, and could still make some noise this season. I hope we do. Never give up!

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-09-2018, 03:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly how I see it. He brought back Mervy and knew that would do the opposite of sell tickets, so he countered that by making other moves. Tickets still aren't selling even at 5-3...so I doubt we see more moves this offseason. Don't blame the fans for not buying in, blame Mikey for being dense/oblivious/apathetic towards fans and how much damage he's done to his relationship with them over the years.

I don't think Mikey is oblivious to how the fans feel. I think deep down in his core he just doesn't care. He's a rich guy and will continue to be rich regardless of how the Bengals do. And in the end the only thing he sees is $$$$$$$.