End of the "Dalton Scale"?

[fredtoast]

Tannehill has impressed me with the way he has learned to play QB. I don't want to start bashing him just to make Andy look better. But the fact is that Tannehill is a VERY limited QB when it comes to throwing the ball downfield. Funny that people claim he has so much more "talent" than Dalton. Here is a comparison of their stats when throwing the ball more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage in '14

Tannehill.......9-42....314 yds....2 td...54.3 rating
Dalton.........14-43....583 yds....6 td...82.1 rating

[*Nately120*]

(05-22-2015, 10:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Tannehill has impressed me with the way he has learned to play QB.  I don't want to start bashing him just to make Andy look better.  But the fact is that Tannehill is a VERY limited QB when it comes to throwing the ball downfield.  Funny that people claim he has so much more "talent" than Dalton.  Here is a comparison of their stats when throwing the ball more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage in '14

Tannehill.......9-42....314 yds....2 td...54.3 rating
Dalton.........14-43....583 yds....6 td...82.1 rating

I do believe the big knock against Tannehill is his dreadful deep ball stats. Then again, Dalton has AJ back there and Tannehill got an underwhelming Mike Wallace, and blah blah blah.

[fredtoast]

Last year Tannehill had a rushing game that ranked second in the league in average per carry and 12th in yards. He came into the season with the following WRs

Mike Wallace...Former Pro Bowl player with 308 receptions in 5 seasons, two 1000+ yard seasons, and a career average of 16.1 yards per catch.

Brian Hartline..Coming off two consecutive 1000+ yard seasons

Brandon Gibson....had two 50+ reception seasons with the Rams before joining the Dolphins

Considering they were all healthy Tannehill had a much better receiving corps than Dalton did.

[Junglejuice]

[BengalChris]

(05-20-2015, 04:43 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Dalton was so bad last year, that they now see him as the 25th or even 27th QB in the league
Thus, he cannot be the QB or "scale" to judge other QBs off of.

Gotta face the fact that Dalton had a bad year and turned the ball over way too much. 25th or 27th is too low for him though. I'll maintain that he's about average. He'll never carry the team, but there's enough weapons on this team that he doesn't need to.

(05-20-2015, 06:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: weird then why did the less successful tannenhill just get a decent contract?

Tannehill is a better QB than Dalton and that's pretty much a done deal at this point. He's done what he's done with inferior weapons around him and he's much better at taking care of the ball.

(05-22-2015, 10:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Tannehill has impressed me with the way he has learned to play QB. I don't want to start bashing him just to make Andy look better. But the fact is that Tannehill is a VERY limited QB when it comes to throwing the ball downfield. Funny that people claim he has so much more "talent" than Dalton. Here is a comparison of their stats when throwing the ball more than 20 yards past the line of scrimmage in '14

Tannehill.......9-42....314 yds....2 td...54.3 rating
Dalton.........14-43....583 yds....6 td...82.1 rating

Different offense, different weapons on the outside. Who does Miami have that can go deep? No one.

[Brownshoe]

(05-25-2015, 08:48 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Gotta face the fact that Dalton had a bad year and turned the ball over way too much. 25th or 27th is too low for him though. I'll maintain that he's about average. He'll never carry the team, but there's enough weapons on this team that he doesn't need to.


Tannehill is a better QB than Dalton and that's pretty much a done deal at this point. He's done what he's done with inferior weapons around him and he's much better at taking care of the ball.


Different offense, different weapons on the outside. Who does Miami have that can go deep? No one.

lol you really underestimate Tannehills weapons... Mike Wallace is an EASY answer who can go deep. Brian Hartline is better than any of our receivers not named A.J. Green too. I would take Jarvis Landry over Sanu, and Marvin Jones also. Tannehill has always had a good run game too. Lamar Miller is a hell of a running back, last year he averaged 5.1 YAC, and had over 1k yards rushing. The Dolphins have just as many weapons as us, but just keep ignoring that fact. I will give you that they don't have as good of an offensive line, but that's it.

[OSUfan]

(05-20-2015, 07:50 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: This^

Tannehill is a very good QB. He has not had the success making the playoffs that Dalton has had, but he also hasn't had the supporting cast that Dalton has had. This year should be very telling for Tannehill. If I were the Dolphins I would have waited another year before giving him that deal. I said the same thing with Dalton though and certainly understand the choice to pay both QB's now. They are actually in a very similar situation with him as we were with Dalton and they made the same choice. Pay him decent money know and try to build a great team around him to win it all, banking on him being able to take them to the next level. If you wait until he wins you several playoff games or even a SB then try to pay him you are going to either have to let him walk or cut players left and right to make the salary cap. Plus with guys like Luck and Wilson closing in on new mega deals getting him done now makes even more sense than waiting for those two to cash in and having Tannehill cost even more. Both the Dolphins and Bengals made the choice to pay these mid level QB's now so they can build a long term contender. I  don't see how anyone can hate the move, may not be what you would have done, but they have faith in their guys and made the move. We won't know how good/bad these deals are for a few more seasons.

I love it that the "supporting cast" argument is only good for Dalton Haters when it can be used against him.......

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-25-2015, 12:15 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: lol you really underestimate Tannehills weapons... Mike Wallace is an EASY answer who can go deep. Brian Hartline is better than any of our receivers not named A.J. Green too. I would take Jarvis Landry over Sanu, and Marvin Jones also. Tannehill has always had a good run game too. Lamar Miller is a hell of a running back, last year he averaged 5.1 YAC, and had over 1k yards rushing. The Dolphins have just as many weapons as us, but just keep ignoring that fact. I will give you that they don't have as good of an offensive line, but that's it.

You forgot Charles Clay who was argueably their best weapon. had like an 800 yard year a few years back I believe. Got paid this off season like a top 5 TE, while Gresham is unemployed lol

[Brownshoe]

(05-25-2015, 01:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: You forgot Charles Clay who was argueably their best weapon. had like an 800 yard year a few years back I believe. Got paid this off season like a top 5 TE, while Gresham is unemployed lol

I forgot to add him, because the Bills signed him this offseason.

[Brownshoe]

(05-25-2015, 12:50 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I love it that the "supporting cast" argument is only good for Dalton Haters when it can be used against him.......

Everyone knows that every team except the Bengals have horrible weapons.

[*bfine32*]

(05-22-2015, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year Tannehill had a rushing game that ranked second in the league in average per carry and 12th in yards.  He came into the season with the following WRs

Mike Wallace...Former Pro Bowl player with 308 receptions in 5 seasons, two 1000+ yard seasons, and a career average of 16.1 yards per catch.

Brian Hartline..Coming off two consecutive 1000+ yard seasons

Brandon Gibson....had two 50+ reception seasons with the Rams before joining the Dolphins

Considering they were all healthy Tannehill had a much better receiving corps than Dalton did.

,,,and he had a QB rating 4 points higher than Andy's career best.

[DaltontoKroftSBchamps]

(05-22-2015, 11:13 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I do believe the big knock against Tannehill is his dreadful deep ball stats.  Then again, Dalton has AJ back there and Tannehill got an underwhelming Mike Wallace, and blah blah blah.

AJ was only healthy for half the year and Jones was gone the entire season. Sanu, Little and Tate can't consistently get any separation from secondaries.

[leonardfan40]

(05-25-2015, 12:50 PM)OSUfan Wrote: I love it that the "supporting cast" argument is only good for Dalton Haters when it can be used against him.......

What a very generalized statement about something that I did not address...unless you're calling me a Dalton "hater" which I am not

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-20-2015, 06:13 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I'm still on the fence about Dalton, but he's definitely better than Tannenhill..

I don't understand why so many people are high on Tannenhill, and was shocked he got as much money as he did.

Last year he choked at the end of every close game. It pissed me off because I'd pick the Dolphins in my football pool, they'd be up the whole game, or at least be in the game at the end--then Tannenhill loses the game at the end by either not moving the ball or turning it over. Dalton at least has won us some games at the end (the drive against Pitt last year comes to mind that clinched a playoff birth).

Yet Tannehill has continued an upward progression in his first 3 years (which Dalton did) except that Tannehill posted a QB Rating above 90 in his third year with far fewer "weapons" and a worse defense than Dalton.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-26-2015, 01:02 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yet Tannehill has continued an upward progression in his first 3 years (which Dalton did) except that Tannehill posted a QB Rating above 90 in his third year with far fewer "weapons" and a worse defense than Dalton.

Tannehill is better than Dalton, but the Dolphins defense is better than ours. They were a really good unit last year and just added Suh. Possibly best defense in the league. Cameron Wake is a monster :O

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-20-2015, 09:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:
Dude, i am the first to say AD had a terrible season but i bet he surprises these guys
big time this year. With Green, Eifert, MLJ all healthy and a badazz running game and
a solid O-line these guys will probably eat major crow.

This is what i am hoping anyways...

I wanted to throw a "lol" in here but i didn't want it to be misconstrued as me laughing at you--i'm not--i'm laughing at the sentiment; give a QB a ton of talent and he'll make someone eat crow about how average he is...

Here's the kicker. What if, with all this talent--and it being his 5th full year--he again finishes in the middle of the QB ratings?

What will it take for some in this fan base to see that what the Bengals have, is an average QB? Regardless of the surrounding cast.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-26-2015, 01:11 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I wanted to throw a "lol" in here but i didn't want it to be misconstrued as me laughing at you--i'm not--i'm laughing at the sentiment; give a QB a ton of talent and he'll make someone eat crow about how average he is...

Here's the kicker. What if, with all this talent--and it being his 5th full year--he again finishes in the middle of the QB ratings?

What will it take for some in this fan base to see that what the Bengals have, is an average QB? Regardless of the surrounding cast.

Yeah, it is what it is though.

He should put up much better numbers with more talent.

I honestly have major questions about Dalton without the talent around him.

He was less than average last season without it.

[fredtoast]

(05-26-2015, 01:11 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What will it take for some in this fan base to see that what the Bengals have, is an average QB? Regardless of the surrounding cast.

What will it take for some in this fan base to realize that a QB ranked in the 10-18 range is a valuable asset and very hard to replace?

The rest of the NFL already gets it. That is whay they pay QBs like Dalton $15 million plus per year.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-26-2015, 01:02 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yet Tannehill has continued an upward progression in his first 3 years (which Dalton did) except that Tannehill posted a QB Rating above 90 in his third year with far fewer "weapons" and a worse defense than Dalton.

I'm sorry, which season did Tannehill lead the fins to the playoffs? Oh, that's right...none of them!

You also neglect the fact that aside from New England the entire AFC East is a turd herd. They also lost (twice) the final game of the season to a Jets team that Dalton put up 49 on!

[J24]

You can't be a bad Qb in this league and have a 43-20 regular season record and 4 playoff appearances in your first 4 seasons. Let's not forget that Andy also was third in touchdowns in the NFL in 2013 again can't be a bad Qb with that on your resume.