(10-31-2019, 09:23 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: You know, I am not saying what the Bengals will do... only what you fans want them to do. Which is go on a QB carousal.
"Palmer needs benching", "Dalton needs benching". "Put in McCarron". "Put in Finley". "Draft this guy..." over and over again.
Palmer was crap when he left for the Raiders and was successful for a few seasons in Arizona. I'm still glad he left. I hope Dalton goes somewhere and is successful. Sometimes a change in scenery will motivate players but it wasn't happening here. Like I was telling my third wife just the other day "sometimes it is just time for a change".
(10-31-2019, 09:37 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Palmer was crap when he left for the Raiders and was successful for a few seasons in Arizona. I'm still glad he left. I hope Dalton goes somewhere and is successful. Sometimes a change in scenery will motivate players but it wasn't happening here. Like I was telling my third wife just the other day "sometimes it is just time for a change".
NICE!
Yeah, Dalton will probably move on. I hope he does have success as well. The issue is that it doesn't change anything in our organization. I work in HVAC. There is a difference between a service technician and a "parts changer". A parts changer will just change out the parts and hope that something works. Sometimes it does, for a while, then it breaks down again, usually faster than before. A service technician will look at and diagnose the problem and address that first. Once the actual problem is fixed, you may still have to change the part, but at least the underlying issue was addressed and the new part will work at optimum levels.
(10-31-2019, 09:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What is moronic about "Building for the future" by trading for Fitzpatrick?
I don't know... maybe me thinking at the time that Price was a better player than Hopkins. Price was benched and wasn't playing. Now Price is playing and has been playing poorly. Hopkins has been playing well.
It's sad how some people are trashing Dalton so bad and gloating because he's on the bench. Are you a fan of the team or just a Dalton hater?
Andy did a lot of good for this team and city. For that, thank him and move on. You should get your wish and he shouldn't be in stripes next year. Is it really necessary to continue to try and tear the man down further? When he was drafted, this team was predicted to go 0-16. He helped lead them to the playoffs instead. Hate on him all you want, he definitely played a part in the success of this team. Yeah, I know, we didn't win a playoff game. However, we were no longer the doormat of the NFL. Andy played a part in that. Yes, I am a fan of Dalton and I hope he gets to somewhere else so he can succeed. If Dalton gets the chance to start elsewhere, I'd bet that he wins a playoff game before Cincinnati does.
Andy has always been said he had to be surrounded by elite talent to succeed. Maybe it's just me, but I think a lot of you WAY overvalue Bengals players. Are we really considering Auden Tate and Alex Erickson "elite" level talent? When healthy, John Ross had that one big game this season. He's often injured and has seriously underperformed for his draft position. He's "elite" though, right? Let's not forget Mohamed Sanu. I like Sanu, but many talked about how bad Atlanta overpaid him and dogged New England for trading for him. However, to bash Dalton, Sanu was "elite" talent. How about Armon Binns, Ryan Whalen, Damion Willis, Brandon LaFell, Cody Core, Josh Malone, James Wright, Andrew Hawkins, Brandon Tate, Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell, Greg Little, the list goes on. Outside of AJ Green, 2 seasons of more than 8 games from Eifert, and maybe Joe Mixon, what actual "elite" weapons have the Bengals surrounded Dalton with? Marvin Jones is good, but is he really a top tier WR? This isn't even getting into what was done to the OLine.
I'm a Bengals fan first. I hope Finley plays well. I don't expect it. He gets AJ, but he also gets the same OLine, worst NFL rushing attack, worst NFL rushing defense, and that garbage LB group that Dalton had to deal with. However, I believe many of you will allow those excuses for Finley and even make up further ones just simply for the fact he's not Andy Dalton. If the team goes winless under Finley, you won't care because at least Andy Dalton isn't under center.
I think it's interesting how the media has rushed to Dalton's defense. They used to love taking shots at him. Now they say he's better than half the qb's in the league and will surely rebound and start for a team next season. Said he wasn't the problem, and put up with this unique FO for 9 years.
They've also defended him for how the whole benching went down, and criticized the FO and Katie and Troy (who forgot about the trade deadline and has been in Ireland I think this week and nowhere to be found).
Benching Dalton has made Dalton great again in the eyes of the league and media.
They also said AJ is done, but won't make a big deal about it. If franchised, he won't play for the Bengals again, and that was likely their plan.
This bye week has been a disaster as they've lost the top 2 players on the team and the players who have caused the least amount of issues. Said Taylor is struggling to manage the small picture and shouldn't be left to defend and speak on the big picture, but no FO members are willing to step up and face the fire like a real GM would (to take the heat off of the HC).
Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous "Let not the dumb have to educate" ~ jj22
(10-31-2019, 04:30 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: This is part of Dalton's problem he does not go for the win he try's not to lose the game. I have watched him throw the ball away on 3rd downs when we was in 4th quarter with less then 5 or 6 mins on the clock and putting it on the defense to get the stop and with even less time on the clock hoping to get the ball with 2 mins left on clock. But this is not Mike Zimmer's D anymore you got to win the games for us not play conservitive that's why we got rid of the last coach. Trust in your WR not named AJ and Boyd he use to be a gun slinger when he was a rookie QB that has been coached out of him by Marvin and the media.
Lot of truth in there..... especially the part about "Marv-ball", IMO.
(10-31-2019, 09:51 AM)jj22 Wrote: I think it's interesting how the media has rushed to Dalton's defense. They used to love taking shots at him. Now they say he's better than half the qb's in the league and will surely rebound and start for a team next season. Said he wasn't the problem, and put up with this unique FO for 9 years.
They've also defended him for how the whole benching went down, and criticized the FO and Katie and Troy (who forgot about the trade deadline and has been in Ireland I think this week and nowhere to be found).
Switzerland. Hell of a time to plan vacation, right? I'm sure they all already knew they weren't going to make any trades so lets head on vacation!
I have found all of that funny as well. I think the media are just preparing to be able to say "I told you so" if Dalton does well for another team next year.
(10-31-2019, 09:36 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I didn't predict this... only that it is what I would do... you do realize the difference, right? You also know that us fans have no control over the organization? At least I hope you do.
I would have given a 1st round pick for Minkah... Bates and Minkah would be a good pairing.
I still don't think Price is a bad as he has been playing. I have blamed that on the coaching. Still do. However I posted this before Minkah was traded and before Price was put out on the field. Jordan did show promise in the small sample size to go with.
Now that Minkah is off the table, I shifted what I want to see. Which is OLine... OLine... and me personally OLine again. Then a LBer like Bachi (sp?).
So calling me a moron, doesn't actually make me so.
Meh, when someone resorts to name calling to disagree.... it's usually time to just shut it down, cause the conversation is going nowhere....but I commend your effort sir....lol.
(10-31-2019, 09:09 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: You think Ben has a "hand full of SB rings"? He has 2. Both years he had strong running games and strong defenses. Along with good WRs. Not only that but some crazy endings to some games. Palmer's knee injury wasn't something that Ben could have counted on and while the Bengals may not have won the SB, they could have beaten Pittsburgh. So yeah Stars Aligning.
You see Nick Foles doesn't win SB MVP if the stars doesn't align.
You act like Dalton hasn't played without AJ before. He has and he has played well. You know why 2015 was so good? Cause when Dalton threw to the other WRs they actually caught the ball. Unlike the drops that has came about since Sanu and Jones left.
When those 2 left, who did we replace them with? 1 guy... Tyler Boyd. Then we get John Ross in a different draft, who has been injured and not as consistent as Jones.
Aaron Rodgers is the king of YAC... Brady is the king of short throws. Rarely do they throw the ball downfield. Brees is the only one to throw down field consistently.
The expression that QBs are told is "Give you guys a chance". Well at some point those guys are going to have to make the most out of their chances.
Sanu and Jones was here 3 or 4 years together and AJ and Andy are all close and started in the NFL together and grew and this was all when Andy was still slinging the ball around before he was coached into being gun shy. I agree with keeping Jones around and Sanu if it was in the cards but it did not happen. Nobody is developing with Andy now when AJ is on the field Dalton will force it to AJ even when others are in one on one match ups that we have the advantage on.
I was going to respond to the Ben statement but I am going to let it be I don't like talking about him. We all know the history there.
Bottom line to me is Dalton had many chances to win playoff games and failed for whatever reason 5 years strait. Everyone can clearly see you are a huge Dalton fan so this must be rough for you but it will get better not like he was family right? Dalton's time playing for the Bengals is over and they are in the process of moving on and trying to find our next QB weather he is on the team now, in the draft or a free agent {not likely}. We needed to see another QB at the helm for many reasons with an 0-8 start to the season with many new coaches and play callers. If you are a Bengals fan this move had to be made and should answer some of those questions many of us have.
(10-31-2019, 10:13 AM)Wyche Wrote: Meh, when someone resorts to name calling to disagree.... it's usually time to just shut it down, cause the conversation is going nowhere....but I commend your effort sir....lol.
It's usually the new, fake, second accounts doing it.
(10-31-2019, 09:36 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I didn't predict this... only that it is what I would do... you do realize the difference, right? You also know that us fans have no control over the organization? At least I hope you do.
I would have given a 1st round pick for Minkah... Bates and Minkah would be a good pairing.
I still don't think Price is a bad as he has been playing. I have blamed that on the coaching. Still do. However I posted this before Minkah was traded and before Price was put out on the field. Jordan did show promise in the small sample size to go with.
Now that Minkah is off the table, I shifted what I want to see. Which is OLine... OLine... and me personally OLine again. Then a LBer like Bachi (sp?).
So calling me a moron, doesn't actually make me so.
You said the bengals were in contention for the division
And that once they won the division this year, and went one and done in the playoffs (again), they would have some work to do.
Lol. You typed it. 6 weeks ago. Own it.
"Well I don't think we accomplish much in the Playoffs and as much as it would suck, we would probably be 1 and done, again."
(10-31-2019, 09:51 AM)jj22 Wrote: I think it's interesting how the media has rushed to Dalton's defense. They used to love taking shots at him. Now they say he's better than half the qb's in the league and will surely rebound and start for a team next season. Said he wasn't the problem, and put up with this unique FO for 9 years.
They've also defended him for how the whole benching went down, and criticized the FO and Katie and Troy (who forgot about the trade deadline and has been in Ireland I think this week and nowhere to be found).
Benching Dalton has made Dalton great again in the eyes of the league and media.
They also said AJ is done, but won't make a big deal about it. If franchised, he won't play for the Bengals again, and that was likely their plan.
This bye week has been a disaster as they've lost the top 2 players on the team and the players who have caused the least amount of issues. Said Taylor is struggling to manage the small picture and shouldn't be left to defend and speak on the big picture, but no FO members are willing to step up and face the fire like a real GM would (to take the heat off of the HC).
It definitely is amusing how the media did nothing but bash him and call for the bengals to upgrade for years and now that he’s on the bench he’s suddenly a hot commodity and the Bengals did him wrong by benching him. Taylor was in a no win situation. If he kept playing dalton he would have been bashed and now that he is gonna give someone else a shot instead of calling Dalton untouchable he is getting bashed.
(10-30-2019, 04:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Here is the video:
I'm all for starting Ryan Findley and seeing what we have in him, but it seems like this whole thing could have been handled better than it was. Maybe come out and trade Andy before benching him to try and save Andy's face a little bit. He deserved that.
This just reiterates what a shit show this whole franchise is. Who is running the show here? Who is making the decisions?
Only the Bengals could have pissed off an unpissoffable guy like Andy Dalton. Next thing you know he's going to demand a trade. What a mess.
This ^^^^^^
The water tastes funny when you're far from your home,
yet it's only the thirsty that hunger to roam. Roam the Jungle !
(10-31-2019, 09:37 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Palmer was crap when he left for the Raiders and was successful for a few seasons in Arizona. I'm still glad he left. I hope Dalton goes somewhere and is successful. Sometimes a change in scenery will motivate players but it wasn't happening here. Like I was telling my third wife just the other day "sometimes it is just time for a change".
It's easier to be glad that Palmer left because we had Dalton come in immediately afterwards. If we went bust on QB after him and he's playing average football in Oakland and above average football in AZ we probably aren't so smug. If we traded Dalton to the Bears yesterday and he's playoff-relevant while Ryan Finley and (new QB here) flop under the ZT system I'd wager we aren't too terribly glad he's gone.
Then again, as you've said change change change. Last year was on the coaches and this year is on the players. I just don't have as much faith that the Dalton/Green eras are going to be as seamlessly replaced as the Palmer/Chad era was. ZT couldn't attract competent assistants here before he started 0-8, so as boring as Marvin and Dalton are/were changes haven't done anything good for us lately.
But I guess it is more entertaining, though you wouldn't know it based on the attendance at games.
(10-31-2019, 09:25 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Bottom line, there are a lot of teams that would like to have Andy and could put a decent line in front of him and win. Sure he's pissed he didn't get a chance to be traded, but the Bengals are not trading him because they know Finley has to play behind the same line Dalton did, and very well may not last a game. Dalton is now the backup plan.
(10-31-2019, 11:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t consider one or two “a lot of teams.”
Agreed. There could be a lot of QB movement going into 2020, but I don't see Dalton being too key an off-season pickup for many of them. One thing to keep in mind though is that we are unlikely to be experiencing winning seasons while Dalton is elsewhere as we did when Palmer left. If Dalton were to have a single decent run and say get the Bears to the NFC championship game while we are winning 2-6 games or so it's going to be harder to swallow than last time.
Who knows what will happen, but I'll admit the ZT era flopping so hard and Mike Brown being the only Brown/Blackburn in the office during the trade deadline just makes me think it's going to be hard to get back in the black for a while. That, and replacing a ho-hum vet with a new guy who is going to be in over his head hasn't worked out lately so Finley being anything other than screwed and awful would be a pleasant surprise.
(10-31-2019, 11:04 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It's easier to be glad that Palmer left because we had Dalton come in immediately afterwards. If we went bust on QB after him and he's playing average football in Oakland and above average football in AZ we probably aren't so smug. If we traded Dalton to the Bears yesterday and he's playoff-relevant while Ryan Finley and (new QB here) flop under the ZT system I'd wager we aren't too terribly glad he's gone.
Then again, as you've said change change change. Last year was on the coaches and this year is on the players. I just don't have as much faith that the Dalton/Green eras are going to be as seamlessly replaced as the Palmer/Chad era was. ZT couldn't attract competent assistants here before he started 0-8, so as boring as Marvin and Dalton are/were changes haven't done anything good for us lately.
But I guess it is more entertaining, though you wouldn't know it based on the attendance at games.
I think your memory is kind of failing you. Every sports outlet had us being last in the league in2011. Well guess what if we stay with what we had in Dalton we would probably be drafting first in 2020 but I will bet the Finley at least matches Daltons win total for the last 12 games he started.
(10-30-2019, 04:02 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: There are a bunch of teams that would rather have Dalton than what they've got.
You have to look through the record and into the details. This team is on pace to not even reach 1000 rushing yards, for the entire season. Just look what has happened to this offense since 2015. Dalton is nothing more than a scapegoat at this point - and it appears many around here are drinking the juice this organization is serving up.
I'd be ticked off too if I was Dalton. Had they even given him (and his agent) a couple of days notice he'd probably be playing somewhere else right now.
This organization is run about as piss-poorly as one can be run. It's a joke, and it starts right at the top! I truly believe MB in his mind thinks he's smarter than everybody else in the room - that room being the NFL.
Once again the year 2015 gets brought up. I swear that year is more popular than 1776 around here.
(10-31-2019, 11:44 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I think your memory is kind of failing you. Every sports outlet had us being last in the league in2011. Well guess what if we stay with what we had in Dalton we would probably be drafting first in 2020 but I will bet the Finley at least matches Daltons win total for the last 12 games he started.
Ehh, this is the QB-focused nature of the NFL. We also won 0 games with the HC, OC, DC, RBs, WRs (unless Green plays), and so on that we've won 0 games with so far.
(10-31-2019, 09:48 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: It's sad how some people are trashing Dalton so bad and gloating because he's on the bench. Are you a fan of the team or just a Dalton hater?
Andy did a lot of good for this team and city. For that, thank him and move on. You should get your wish and he shouldn't be in stripes next year. Is it really necessary to continue to try and tear the man down further? When he was drafted, this team was predicted to go 0-16. He helped lead them to the playoffs instead. Hate on him all you want, he definitely played a part in the success of this team. Yeah, I know, we didn't win a playoff game. However, we were no longer the doormat of the NFL. Andy played a part in that. Yes, I am a fan of Dalton and I hope he gets to somewhere else so he can succeed. If Dalton gets the chance to start elsewhere, I'd bet that he wins a playoff game before Cincinnati does.
Andy has always been said he had to be surrounded by elite talent to succeed. Maybe it's just me, but I think a lot of you WAY overvalue Bengals players. Are we really considering Auden Tate and Alex Erickson "elite" level talent? When healthy, John Ross had that one big game this season. He's often injured and has seriously underperformed for his draft position. He's "elite" though, right? Let's not forget Mohamed Sanu. I like Sanu, but many talked about how bad Atlanta overpaid him and dogged New England for trading for him. However, to bash Dalton, Sanu was "elite" talent. How about Armon Binns, Ryan Whalen, Damion Willis, Brandon LaFell, Cody Core, Josh Malone, James Wright, Andrew Hawkins, Brandon Tate, Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell, Greg Little, the list goes on. Outside of AJ Green, 2 seasons of more than 8 games from Eifert, and maybe Joe Mixon, what actual "elite" weapons have the Bengals surrounded Dalton with? Marvin Jones is good, but is he really a top tier WR? This isn't even getting into what was done to the OLine.
I'm a Bengals fan first. I hope Finley plays well. I don't expect it. He gets AJ, but he also gets the same OLine, worst NFL rushing attack, worst NFL rushing defense, and that garbage LB group that Dalton had to deal with. However, I believe many of you will allow those excuses for Finley and even make up further ones just simply for the fact he's not Andy Dalton. If the team goes winless under Finley, you won't care because at least Andy Dalton isn't under center.
I see it more as those who want to trash the organization will do so at every turn. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the way the Bengals handled the Dalton situation. They gave him every chance to carry the team and he proved we don't have the pieces in place for him to excel. So the bye week comes and we decide to see if we have anything in our 4th RD pick. The only "fault" I see is the team asking a guy who they've made very rich, given him every opportunity, tried to build around him, and is currently under contract paying him over $16 Million.
I seen many who applaud the move wish the best for Andy and his family, but IMO he could have handled it much better than he did. Seems like he went to the Hue Jackson "you lost your job" school of interviewing, So IMO we're seeing more Andy fans than Bengal fans in this thread.
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