Veteran Andy > Rookie Joe Burrow

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-06-2020, 02:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You mean folks aren't saying: Do nothing if FA, draft Burrow #1OA, forfeit the rest of our draft picks, and we will get to the Super Bowl?!?!?

I too have not seen anyone suggest this, but someone HAS to be doing it as often as I see it being rebutted.

Right

I have yet to see a single post saying all we have to do is draft JB and everything else is fine. Stay with all our current players, give away all the rest of our draft picks to charity, have the F.O. go on vacation during free agency because we don't need no stinking badges free agency.

And I've seen literally dozens of posts saying people are saying that ? Must be an alternate reality bengaldsboard.com somewhere ?

[bengaloo]

(01-06-2020, 11:03 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: 2015 AJ is not the 2020 AJ . Paying him top five WR contract with a lot of guaranteed money could nullify the move of replacing QBS.

Top 5 seems like a lot, is that what he is asking for? When we signed him before was is a top 5 contract? These are things I never paid attention to, but one thing I do know, outside of Bengals fans most people still see AJ as elite despite his age an injuries.

[Catmandude123]

(01-06-2020, 02:48 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Come on bf74!  You can say 'very few or only some who are ignant', but NOT 'nobody'???  You don't have to scour these threads to see that there ARE folk in here that BELIEVE AND EXPECT a Lombardi NLT 2025!

I believe they probably expect a PO win by then. I would wager that many Miami fans and other teams who are QB needy would flip the F%$k out if their team had a chance to draft him and passed. I don't know if its because the Dalton Gangers post more than other fans or we have such an uninformed( I could have used another word here but I want to be politically correct) fan base. 

[Catmandude123]

(01-06-2020, 02:13 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Boycott?      Too many fans that live and breathe football to let that happen.

There in lies the problem.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-04-2020, 02:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Andy won 2 freaking games this season.

If Burrow wins a handful next season that’s already a huge upgrade.

Exactly and Dalton didn't even play average this season like he has in the past.

Rookie Joe Burrow > Veteran 2019 Andy Dalton

Dalton is still too expensive for a back up QB too IMO. But with Burrow being a rookie on a pretty cheap first contract I could
see the team keeping Dalton around as a back up as Bfine has stated. Definitely possible for Dalton to still be around and if we
move on I would like to see us get something for the guy.

[iowahwky4cincy]

(01-04-2020, 01:53 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: So, I've seen a lot of people list Joe Burrow has a huge upgrade for next year, when trying to make the case for vast improvement in 2020. Sorry guys, but that's not at all likely or probable.

Long-term, yeah we all think and hope that Burrow will be a upgrade. Hopefully a tremendous one. But year 1, right out of the gate, I'm not sure how or why this idea is floating around so much. Even more puzzling, it's often represented as a stone-cold fact. i.e. "We'll have Burrow next year so that's a reason for 2020 improvement."

Fwiw, I wanted to title this as greater or equal to, but that symbol escapes my tablet. But the equal to portion of the equation... that's the best case scenario in this comparison. The best case scenario for a rookie QB, and an oustanding season, is that of at or near an average starting QB in the NFL. Which is what Andy is.

None of this is to say that Burrow won't make some throws that Andy can't or didn't. I'm sure he can and will. And none of this is to say our offense can't or won't improve either. It very well may. And as a result Burrow very will cohld post significantly better numbers.

But as a position grade, or evaluation or comparison, with simply taking everything else out of the equation (OL, talent, coaching, etc.) I don't know how this argument is easily made, much less won.  If you want or choose to believe this team is going to see a significant amount of immediate improvemenf then I think you need to find reasons other than Burrow is already an upgrade.

I'm not even a big Andy fan, never have been. I've always considered him average.  And I'm excited about Burrow and the fact we're finally getting a potential elite level QB. I hope he is great someday.  I just don't expect that this year.

Burrow has all the tools, plus a ton of intangibles. But I'd sure love to see the Bengals hang onto Andy for a year, much like they did John Kitna when Palmer first arrived. Aside from getting Burrow, the Bengals need to (and have the opportunity to) upgrade other areas on the roster like OL, LB. If all the "skill" position players return, that area of the team could be as deep as any in the NFL. Throw in a decent, well-coordinated defense, and you give a young QB like Burrows a chance to be really good.
GO STRIPES!!!

[*jason*]

(01-06-2020, 05:17 PM)bengaloo Wrote: Top 5 seems like a lot, is that what he is asking for? When we signed him before was is a top 5 contract? These are things I never paid attention to, but one thing I do know, outside of Bengals fans most people still see AJ as elite despite his age an injuries.

Nobody knows what he's asking for. People just spout off and fart out their mouth about it

But... Apparently Sammy Watkins makes $16 million a year. What do YOU think AJ Green would command? I repeat; Sammy Watkins makes that kind of money. Sammy Watkins was it marginally better than AJ this past season.

[Luvnit2]

(01-06-2020, 11:17 PM)iowahwky4cincy Wrote: Burrow has all the tools, plus a ton of intangibles. But I'd sure love to see the Bengals hang onto Andy for a year, much like they did John Kitna when Palmer first arrived. Aside from getting Burrow, the Bengals need to (and have the opportunity to) upgrade other areas on the roster like OL, LB. If all the "skill" position players return, that area of the team could be as deep as any in the NFL. Throw in a decent, well-coordinated defense, and you give a young QB like Burrows a chance to be really good.
GO STRIPES!!!

I bet a team like the Eagles wished they had a true backup QB in playoff loss last night.

Some fans ignore the backup, then the starter gets hurt and they are like man our year is over. Those same fans want a 2 million or less backup QB as they place no value on the position.

As for us, I hope it works out for Burrow and the Bengals and AD lands in a great place also to finish out his next 6 to 8 years or so. If I am AD, I would demand a trade if team is drafting Burrow, but tell MB now so he knows it and can prepare. If MB denies the trade, I would tell him see him week #1 at practice. Some call it selfish, I call it be open and honest.

[Catmandude123]

(01-06-2020, 11:31 PM)jason Wrote: Nobody knows what he's asking for. People just spout off and fart out their mouth about it

But... Apparently Sammy Watkins makes $16 million a year. What do YOU think AJ Green would command? I repeat; Sammy Watkins makes that kind of money. Sammy Watkins was it marginally better than AJ this past season.

Marginally better? How about infinitely better. Just because KC overpaid for a oft injured WR it is OK that the Bengals  do too? You say nobody knows what he is asking but nobody also knows what his medical prognosis is either. If a sprained ankle kept him out for a full year the medical staff may have reservations about him fulfilling another contract. I believe there were concerns at the end of 2018. If they were serious about signing him that would have been the perfect time.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-06-2020, 04:35 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right

I have yet to see a single post saying all we have to do is draft JB and everything else is fine. Stay with all our current players, give away all the rest of our draft picks to charity, have the F.O. go on vacation during free agency because we don't need no stinking badges free agency.

And I've seen literally dozens of posts saying people are saying that ? Must be an alternate reality bengaldsboard.com somewhere ?

I mean, we do have a thread called "A Sleeping Giant" on here. Lol

[Catmandude123]

(01-06-2020, 11:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I bet a team like the Eagles wished they had a true backup QB in playoff loss last night.

Some fans ignore the backup, then the starter gets hurt and they are like man our year is over. Those same fans want a 2 million or less backup QB as they place no value on the position.

As for us, I hope it works out for Burrow and the Bengals and AD lands in a great place also to finish out his next 6 to 8 years or so. If I am AD, I would demand a trade if team is drafting Burrow, but tell MB now so he knows it and can prepare. If MB denies the trade, I would tell him see him week #1 at practice. Some call it selfish, I call it be open and honest.

I bet the Eagles are glad they didn't spend 17 mil on a back up QB who has proved he can't ever win big games so it let them sign more important players so they MADE IT INTO THE POs.

[Interceptor]

Greg Cook

[Luvnit2]

(01-07-2020, 09:41 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I bet the Eagles are glad they didn't spend 17 mil on a back up QB who has proved he can't ever win big games so it let them sign more important players so they MADE IT INTO THE POs.

If their goal was to MAKE IT INTO THE PLAYOFFS, then you are correct.

Losing wild card round means loser anyway you look at it. They are now home sitting on the couch just like the rest of the losers like us.

But my main point was fans devalue backup QB's, until they are needed in crucial situations. They want to not pay them well as if they will never be needed, until they are needed and the team is screwed.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-06-2020, 11:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I bet a team like the Eagles wished they had a true backup QB in playoff loss last night.

Some fans ignore the backup, then the starter gets hurt and they are like man our year is over. Those same fans want a 2 million or less backup QB as they place no value on the position.

As for us, I hope it works out for Burrow and the Bengals and AD lands in a great place also to finish out his next 6 to 8 years or so. If I am AD, I would demand a trade if team is drafting Burrow, but tell MB now so he knows it and can prepare. If MB denies the trade, I would tell him see him week #1 at practice. Some call it selfish, I call it be open and honest.

What exactly is "a true backup QB" ?

Yes it would be nice to have Brady starting and P. Manning as backup. Or Aaron Rodgers starting and Drew Brees as backup. But back to reality, backups are backups for a reason. The Wentz/Foles thing is by far an anomaly.

The Steelers had some luck with backups thru the middle of this past season mostly because they had a good D that forced many turnovers. But they faded in the end didn't they ?

We need Oline, WR's, LBers and so on way more than we need a super star backup QB.

[Catmandude123]

(01-07-2020, 10:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: If their goal was to MAKE IT INTO THE PLAYOFFS, then you are correct.

Losing wild card round means loser anyway you look at it. They are now home sitting on the couch just like the rest of the losers like us.

But my main point was fans devalue backup QB's, until they are needed in crucial situations. They want to not pay them well as if they will never be needed, until they are needed and the team is screwed.

And if they had Dalton where would they be? How about 17mil poorer and still sitting on the couch. Dalton has proven again and again that he can't win big games. 5-19 in prime time games in his career. 

[MEBengalsFan]

(01-04-2020, 02:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Andy won 2 freaking games this season.

If Burrow wins a handful next season that’s already a huge upgrade.

So it's Andy's fault that the first game of the season that the Bengals loss? If I remember correctly he put on a clinic against the Seahawks and loss. He played his heart out and had one of his best games and the team still loss. Let me state that again, the TEAM still loss. This is a team game and it takes a team to win and to lose; one player cannot be blamed for the success or failures of the team. The TEAM needs to hold themselves accountable. 

Just like the last playoff game the Bengals were in; they should have won but the defense screwed it up and they loss. To many times the QB is blamed for the failure of the team because of the position, but the QB can't stop the other team offense, he can't make the catch, etc...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-07-2020, 11:15 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: And if they had Dalton where would they be? How about 17mil poorer and still sitting on the couch. Dalton has proven again and again that he can't win big games. 5-19 in prime time games in his career. 

And it’s not like he’s lost a lot of close ones either. He was definitely prone to shitting the bed in prime time.

[bengalguy71]

(01-06-2020, 07:38 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I believe they probably expect a PO win by then. I would wager that many Miami fans and other teams who are QB needy would flip the F%$k out if their team had a chance to draft him and passed. I don't know if its because the Dalton Gangers post more than other fans or we have such an uninformed( I could have used another word here but I want to be politically correct) fan base. 

My example of an average QB being able to excel on a team with a solid OL, RB, defense, and coaching, would be Ryan Tannehill!

He finished 9th this year in the ESPN QBR rankings.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

I'm not AGAINST drafting a Joe Burrow, but I'm also smart enough to know that he can't come in here and single handidly take this franchise to the promised land and I don't have confidence MB is willing to spend the money to keep the talent he has, AND pay for the 'holes' to be filled.

Time will tell!

[Okeana]

(01-07-2020, 01:01 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: My example of an average QB being able to excel on a team with a solid OL, RB, defense, and coaching, would be Ryan Tannehill!

He finished 9th this year in the ESPN QBR rankings.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

I'm not AGAINST drafting a Joe Burrow, but I'm also smart enough to know that he can't come in here and single handidly take this franchise to the promised land and I don't have confidence MB is willing to spend the money to keep the talent he has, AND pay for the 'holes' to be filled.

Time will tell!

Drafting a player is never a surefire thing to fix an organization and all you can do is evaluate each player's potential value to the team.  No one should question that Andy Dalton's time is coming to an end here in Cincinnati and we have to look to the future.  We have the #1 overall pick so just evaluate all the talent and take your guy.  I have very little faith in this staff tho because of last year's draft and specifically Drew Sample.  It's probably the most over evaluated and worst draft pick In my lifetime.   When your front office is making those kinds of decisions it's hard to get any optimism looking forward.  Which is why no one but braindead zombies when to Bengals games this year.  Shame on you if you spent a dollar on this team.

[Okeana]

(01-07-2020, 01:01 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: My example of an average QB being able to excel on a team with a solid OL, RB, defense, and coaching, would be Ryan Tannehill!

He finished 9th this year in the ESPN QBR rankings.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

I'm not AGAINST drafting a Joe Burrow, but I'm also smart enough to know that he can't come in here and single handidly take this franchise to the promised land and I don't have confidence MB is willing to spend the money to keep the talent he has, AND pay for the 'holes' to be filled.

Time will tell!

oh as a side note.  Just think how great the Titans offense is this year and he's at best average.  What if the Titans picked up a legit QB, hell even Andy Dalton would be a pro bowler on that team.