Can a QB help an Oline?

[*bfine32*]

We all know if we stand pat we will go into 2017 with questions at 4 of 5 of our Oline. Many have chimed in about how this will "get Andy killed". Then the other day I was listening to the Radio and the announcers were talking about how a good Oline can help a young QB.

So my mind wondered to the alternative. Can a good QB help a young Oline? I think they can and those suggesting Andy will "get killed" may be underestimating his pocket presence and decision making.

[Housh]

(03-12-2017, 09:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We all know if we stand pat we will go into 2017 with questions at 4 of 5 of our Oline. Many have chimed in about how this will "get Andy killed". Then the other day I was listening to the Radio and the announcers were talking about how a good Oline can help a young QB.

So my mind wondered to the alternative. Can a good QB help a young Oline? I think they can and those suggesting Andy will "get killed" may be underestimating his pocket presence and decision making.

We saw the Andy effect last year in full force. Andy has the 2nd quickest release in freaking football and he was STILL destroyed with this o line. I think the relationship is definitely one way with our team. Andy made our o line last year look like MAYBE it had an OCCASIOANL chance of looking good. If RG3 was behind that same line it had a chance of looking like one of the worst to ever play in Bengals history.


For a QB like Big Ben his oline makes him look good and he makes his o line look good. He throws a lot of TDs boosting their numbers and he keeps certain plays from being sacks and on the flip side the line blocks pretty well when it needs to. 2 way street.

[*Nately120*]

I'm not 100% sure the line will get Andy KILLED, but it's clear last year's line made playing QB really hard.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

Yes. Johnny Manziel's scrambling ability at A&M made Cedric Ogbuehi look a lot better than he was.

[*Go Cards*]

Yes as well as play calling too.

But it is not very ideal.

[Housh]

(03-12-2017, 10:28 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Yes.  Johnny Manziel's scrambling ability at A&M made Cedric Ogbuehi look a lot better than he was.

Biggest fear scouters should have when selecting players from powerhouse teams

What parts of certain players made other parts of other players look better than they actually were?

But in his defense when he blocked for Manziel in that big year he was actually at guard. So maybe were not very smart for putting him at right tackle for his rookie year. Probably shouldn't put young players in bad positions like that. Youd think a coach with Marvins pedigree would know that

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2017, 09:44 PM)Housh Wrote: For a QB like Big Ben his oline makes him look good and he makes his o line look good.

Actually for a few years there it was the opposite.  The Steelers O-line was called trash because of high sack numbers, but it was mainkly because Ben held on to the ball forever to try and make plays.

[coachmcneil71]

Brady would be the epitome of this thread title.

[fredtoast]

(03-12-2017, 10:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not 100% sure the line will get Andy KILLED, but it's clear last year's line made playing QB really hard.

This.  Andy may not take a lot of hits, but he will not have time for dep routes to develop.  he will also have a lot of incomplations from just throwing the ball away to avoid a sack.

So at the end of the year Dalton's numbers are way down and people will start hating on him with, "Look, he still was not sacked that much, so he sucked even with good protection."

[Joelist]

Andy's extremely fast release has made the line look better for a while now.

[bonesaw]

Andy makes them look good through quick recognition/decisions and through putting them in the right play vs the defensive look. Pocket presence I wouldn't say is a strong point for him though

[bengalhoel]

A QB can definitely help the O-line and Andy is definitely an above average QB.

He is good against the blitz, when the receivers get open, especially in 2015 , when he racked up a 112 rating when pressured. I think Hue Jackson had a lot to do with this because the receivers seemed to get open faster than last year. Zampese's play calling left a lot to be desired. I dont know if that was from inexperience or just not being that great but he struggled.

You couple slow developing routes with bad line play and you are in a world of shit.

[phil413]

(03-12-2017, 09:44 PM)Housh Wrote: We saw the Andy effect last year in full force. Andy has the 2nd quickest release in freaking football and he was STILL destroyed with this o line. I think the relationship is definitely one way with our team. Andy made our o line last year look like MAYBE it had an OCCASIOANL chance of looking good. If RG3 was behind that same line it had a chance of looking like one of the worst to ever play in Bengals history.


For a QB like Big Ben his oline makes him look good and he makes his o line look good. He throws a lot of TDs boosting their numbers and he keeps certain plays from being sacks and on the flip side the line blocks pretty well when it needs to. 2 way street.

Great take.  Andy looked like he grew as a decision maker even pre-snap and the OL still squandered it. You could see his release was faster, didn't realize he was 2nd but more often than not it was the proper play and not a throw away.  In short, I trust Andy more out there to not zero in pre-snap or panic and force a ball to AJ even with pressure.  An amazing QB like Rogers has made some poor OL's look good, as has the non-athlete/genius that is Brady, elite decision maker Manning and quickest releases in Marino and Elway all have had spells with weak lines and were still elite. We're asking a lot of Andy. Maybe he progresses even more to combat a faulty line, but this is the time to build the foundation together...so if this isn't the right foundation and you squander Andy then Marvin has no reason to even bring up a contract other than Guenther, Urban, Simmons and another I'm forgetting.  

[*bfine32*]

Figured folks would parrot the "fast release" view. A fast release means nothing more than you get rid of the ball fast; anybody can do that. The question was more designed can Andy manipulate the pocket, buy himself and his receivers time. Quick release means jack when you need to let a play develop. Hell give me the ball and I guarantee I can release quicker than Andy ever did.

[Bilbo Saggins]

Tom Brady almost always has the fastest release time in the league. He also screams at his line when they don't block well 

[*SHRacerX*]

I will offer this: A good OC can scheme around a less than ideal offensive line. Look at Atlanta. They have weapons galore and if you crowd the LOS, they can beat you with a slant for 80 yards. I loved watching the way they spread the field and attacked teams.

The Bengals seem to have the opposite philosophy. Bring in extra blockers, have fewer receivers in a pattern, bring the defense closer to the LOS, and pray that your line holds for at least a second. This really minimizes the offensive game plan. Nothing can get downfield and when teams don't have to defend it, you make it easier for them.

Green Bay is another example of a team that doesn't have the greatest offensive line, but will spread you out and attack you. Anyone that feels they can't do that with Dalton hasn't been watching.

[treee]

Not directly answering your question, but good play calling can definitely help an Oline. Early screens, draws, and play action are all ways you can help them in pass pro later in the game.

[Hammerstripes]

Honestly, it's not the passing game that I worry about. Sure, you can design quicker routes, help the tackles in pass pro etc.,

What I worry about is the inability to run the football. That is going to be a real challenge. Whit is miles ahead of Ced in the run blocking game. We have to make some serious adjustments to be able to run.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-12-2017, 09:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We all know if we stand pat we will go into 2017 with questions at 4 of 5 of our Oline. Many have chimed in about how this will "get Andy killed". Then the other day I was listening to the Radio and the announcers were talking about how a good Oline can help a young QB.

So my mind wondered to the alternative. Can a good QB help a young Oline? I think they can and those suggesting Andy will "get killed" may be underestimating his pocket presence and decision making.

Hard to have "presence" in a pocket sandwich. Who do you think Andy should've thrown to here?

[XenoMorph]

(03-12-2017, 09:44 PM)Housh Wrote: We saw the Andy effect last year in full force. Andy has the 2nd quickest release in freaking football and he was STILL destroyed with this o line. I think the relationship is definitely one way with our team. Andy made our o line last year look like MAYBE it had an OCCASIOANL chance of looking good. If RG3 was behind that same line it had a chance of looking like one of the worst to ever play in Bengals history.


For a QB like Big Ben his oline makes him look good and he makes his o line look good. He throws a lot of TDs boosting their numbers and he keeps certain plays from being sacks and on the flip side the line blocks pretty well when it needs to. 2 way street.

notice the play calling was for longer developing plays.. we will have to get back to the quick attack we had with Hue and Gruden.