If you could add any former Bengal whose career was ruined by injury...

[TGISunday]

Pollack is running away with this, and rightly so, but I'd also like to add Jordan Shipley to that list. I think he could have really been something.

[Shake n Blake]

I have to agree with those who chose Ki-Jana. The hype for him was through the roof back in '95. He should've been another Bo Jackson.

Instead, he has to be neck and neck with Greg Cook for most disappointing injury in Bengals history. Just imagine throwing a HOF caliber back into the mix with Blake, Pickens and Scott when they were all in their heyday. Instead of going 7-9 or 8-8, they could've actually made a playoff appearance...in the 90's.

As for the current team, imagine having an AJ Green level player at RB. No offense to Pollack, but we saw him healthy and he was viewed as a bit of a disappointment back then. He was a bit of a tweener, Marv couldn't decide on whether he was a LB or a DE, and the production wasn't all that thrilling. We never got to see Ki-Jana at 100%.

[fredtoast]

(03-23-2017, 09:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That was the year that they used Roland as the 6th OL, and fed Benson the ball repeatedly.  If I remember, the OL in itself wasn't very good, and they had to go to the extra Tackle to spread opposing fronts.  You are correct, the second half of the season other teams had watched enough film to plan for them.  However, I don't really remember Palmer being very exciting to watch that year.  I can look up the stats, but if you have them on hand, would make things much quicker.

Over the first 8 games of that season the Bengals running game did rank higher in yardage (9th) than the passing game (16th).  But the passing game was more efficient (Palmer was 12th in passer rating while the run game was 16th in yards per carry) and the passing game generated a lot more tds.  Palmer was 8th in the league in pass tds (14) while the running game ranked 13th with exactly half as many (7).

But raw stats don't tell the whole story of what Palmer did in the first half of '09....

Final drive of the game against Pittsburgh...Converted 2 fourth downs on the way to throwing the game winning td pass with 18 seconds left

Against Cleveland...Threw game tying td pass with 2:02 left in regulation.  On final drive of overtime scrambled 16 yards on 4th and 11 to set up the game winning FG with 0:07 left.

Against the Ravens....Final drive of the game.  Again scrambled to convert a 4th and 6 before throwing the game winning td with just 0:27 left.

[fredtoast]

(03-24-2017, 12:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I have to agree with those who chose Ki-Jana. The hype for him was through the roof back in '95. He should've been another Bo Jackson.

I would not compare him to Bo.  But he was one of the best college RBs I have evr seen.

The biggest tragedy about the Ki-Jana fiasco is that it came at a time when the Bengals were not relly that bad.  From '96 through '98 the Bengals won at least 7 games each year and they had a handful of very talented players.  The Offense had Jeff Blake, Carl Pickens, Darnay Scott, Tony McGee, Willie Anderson, and Rich Braham.  the Defennse had John Copeland, Dan Wilkinson, James Francis, and Ashley Ambrose.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-24-2017, 01:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Over the first 8 games of that season the Bengals running game did rank higher in yardage (9th) than the passing game (16th).  But the passing game was more efficient (Palmer was 12th in passer rating while the run game was 16th in yards per carry) and the passing game generated a lot more tds.  Palmer was 8th in the league in pass tds (14) while the running game ranked 13th with exactly half as many (7).

But raw stats don't tell the whole story of what Palmer did in the first half of '09....

Final drive of the game against Pittsburgh...Converted 2 fourth downs on the way to throwing the game winning td pass with 18 seconds left

Against Cleveland...Threw game tying td pass with 2:02 left in regulation.  On final drive of overtime scrambled 16 yards on 4th and 11 to set up the game winning FG with 0:07 left.

Against the Ravens....Final drive of the game.  Again scrambled to convert a 4th and 6 before throwing the game winning td with just 0:27 left.

Palmer had one great game in 2009 (5 TDs against the Bears) that heavily skewed his overall stats...especially if you're only talking about the first 8 games.

vs the Bears: 20 of 24 (83.3%) for 233 yards (9.71 yards per attempt), 5 TDs with 0 INTs. Passer rating of 146.7.
other 15 games: 262 of 442 (59.3%) for 2861 yards (6.47 yards per attempt), 16 TDs to 13 INTs. Passer rating of 78.3.

It was a bad season for him, despite the winning. We won with defense and dominating the clock by constantly pounding the football. I'd say it was the best coaching job Marv has ever done and he rightfully won coach of the year. You could debate that Carson's elbow was a factor in 2009, but it's hard to tell when the o-line was in shambles, we had no TE and Lavernues Coles busted hard at WR. It could be any of those factors or all of the above.

Personally, I think some people who love Palmer and want to believe he was elite just use the injuries as an excuse. There may be some truth to it for single seasons (2006 a tiny bit, 2008 and maybe 2009), but overall I'd say Palmer is what he's been. A very good QB with the ideal arm and stature you want, but also a guy prone to inexplicable mental errors. That has been a theme throughout his career, even after his MVP-caliber run in 2015. We all saw him in the playoffs that year. Or the weird INT he threw against us that had Arians giving him a "WTF" look. That was classic Palmer, with no OchoCinco to be found.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-24-2017, 01:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would not compare him to Bo.  But he was one of the best college RBs I have evr seen.

The biggest tragedy about the Ki-Jana fiasco is that it came at a time when the Bengals were not relly that bad.  From '96 through '98 the Bengals won at least 7 games each year and they had a handful of very talented players.  The Offense had Jeff Blake, Carl Pickens, Darnay Scott, Tony McGee, Willie Anderson, and Rich Braham.  the Defennse had John Copeland, Dan Wilkinson, James Francis, and Ashley Ambrose.

Well I wasn't using Bo as a physical comparison. I was more saying that Ki-Jana could've been mentioned in the same breath as legends like Bo. He was supposed to be that type of player. That's why Mike was so desperate to trade up for him. He was an amazing talent that also happened to be a big need. Perhaps our biggest need. 

I agree. With a healthy Ki-Jana, I think the 90's are remembered differently. We probably have a couple playoff runs mixed in there.

[ItsOdellThurman]

Odell.

[Atomic Orange]

Carter? We got Corey Dillon. He more than made up for that tragedy.

For this team i'd pick Thurman or Pollack. Preferably both like it was destined before being yanked away.

Burfict, Thurman, and Pollack.

Yes please

[Shake n Blake]

(03-24-2017, 04:05 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: Carter? We got Corey Dillon. He more than made up for that tragedy.

Not really. By that point, Blake was getting benched every year while Pickens was getting injured and falling off. 

94-96 were the prime years for Blake/Pickens/Scott. Dillon missed out. 

1997: Blake benched, Boomer started all of Dillon's starts
1998: Neil O'Donnell
1999: Akili Smith drafted and started 4 games. Blake started 11 games with Dillon (3-8 record), but Pickens had lost a step and the defense ranked 31st in points allowed

[Murdock2420]

(03-24-2017, 02:10 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well I wasn't using Bo as a physical comparison. I was more saying that Ki-Jana could've been mentioned in the same breath as legends like Bo. He was supposed to be that type of player. That's why Mike was so desperate to trade up for him. He was an amazing talent that also happened to be a big need. Perhaps our biggest need. 

I agree. With a healthy Ki-Jana, I think the 90's are remembered differently. We probably have a couple playoff runs mixed in there.

Same statement I was making earlier on, physically no one is like Bo. However, the ability to be a generation defining back and a first ballot HoF'er and just be that guy that the other team has to account for...yeah Ki'Jana was that type of back. Natural ability that hadn't been seen in years... so damn sad.

[XenoMorph]

(03-24-2017, 06:06 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Same statement I was making earlier on, physically no one is like Bo. However, the ability to be a generation defining back and a first ballot HoF'er and just be that guy that the other team has to account for...yeah Ki'Jana was that type of back. Natural ability that hadn't been seen in years... so damn sad.

while I'm sure its happened to all teams around the league at one point...    it seems luck just doesn't break our way most times

[Murdock2420]

(03-24-2017, 06:22 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: while I'm sure its happened to all teams around the league at one point...    it seems luck just doesn't break our way most times

No doubt, so many highly talented guys lost to freak injury or in Odell's case alcohol and addiction.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-24-2017, 06:06 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Same statement I was making earlier on, physically no one is like Bo. However, the ability to be a generation defining back and a first ballot HoF'er and just be that guy that the other team has to account for...yeah Ki'Jana was that type of back. Natural ability that hadn't been seen in years... so damn sad.

When Kenny Irons (a 2nd round pick) had the same thing happen in preseason against the Lions in Detroit, it just brought back all those memories again.

I never want our RBs to play in Detroit.

[Housh]

In my lifetime gotta go with Pollack

That dude was an absolute stud when he played.

Him and Odell was such a sad circumstance for the Bengals team. One guy is paralyzed and the other is a freaking bonehead who couldn't stay out of trouble.


Most disappointing Bengals injury for me is Kenny Irons


One because he missed his rookie year and 2 because he never found a way to get back on the field.

[bonesaw]

Fully healthy Pdub with AJ Green would be legit. I don't think we know what we are missing with Pdub because he played some injured and had some success but I don't think Cincinnati knows what a healthy Pdub looks like.

[THE PISTONS]

(03-24-2017, 12:02 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I have to agree with those who chose Ki-Jana. The hype for him was through the roof back in '95. He should've been another Bo Jackson.

Instead, he has to be neck and neck with Greg Cook for most disappointing injury in Bengals history. Just imagine throwing a HOF caliber back into the mix with Blake, Pickens and Scott when they were all in their heyday. Instead of going 7-9 or 8-8, they could've actually made a playoff appearance...in the 90's.

As for the current team, imagine having an AJ Green level player at RB. No offense to Pollack, but we saw him healthy and he was viewed as a bit of a disappointment back then. He was a bit of a tweener, Marv couldn't decide on whether he was a LB or a DE, and the production wasn't all that thrilling. We never got to see Ki-Jana at 100%.

Carter was amazing at Penn State. Had he stayed healthy...he may have ended up like Tomlinson. That would have been a really dynamic offense...with a bad defense.

Pollack would look good on the current Bengals team.

Chris Henry next to Green and Lafell would be pretty dynamic too.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-25-2017, 10:45 PM)bonesaw Wrote: Fully healthy Pdub with AJ Green would be legit.  I don't think we know what we are missing with Pdub because he played some injured and had some success but I don't think Cincinnati knows what a healthy Pdub looks like.

People forget that Pdub never had good QB play. Akili Smith. Gus Frerotte rotating with Jon Kitna. Palmer's "rookie" season was the best QB play Pdub got, and he shined that year (819 yards, 7 TDs). I'm of the opinion that he'd be remembered much differently if he'd remained healthy with better QB play.

(03-25-2017, 11:28 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Carter was amazing at Penn State. Had he stayed healthy...he may have ended up like Tomlinson. That would have been a really dynamic offense...with a bad defense.

Pollack would look good on the current Bengals team.

Chris Henry next to Green and Lafell would be pretty dynamic too.

It was a bad defense, but we were a couple wins away from playoff spots in '95 and '96. I can't help but feel Ki-Jana could've helped us get those wins. He'd also be a massive help to this current team. I wasn't as sold on Pollack as others. He was kind of a tweener type. His production was ok (5.5 sacks in 17 games). He probably would've been better with his hand in the dirt.

Chris Henry is a big question mark. If you take away his CTE and off-field troubles, I think he could've made a huge impact on the old teams or this current one. People kinda regarded him as a one trick pony though. Plus his production really wasn't impressive in his last 3 seasons. Only 799 yards and 6 TDs in 28 games.

[kevin]

KEN DYER

I would add a healthy Pollack to the 2017 Bengals because we have Dalton and Hill but Pollack would be a huge LB upgrade. Cook and Ki Jana are just sad cases. Maybe I would bring back a healthy KEN DYER so his family gets to have him not paralyzed. That would be huge. Since none of this can be done, I'm hoping top draft picks Ced and Jackson shake off their injuries and I hope Eifert, AJ Green, Hill and Bernard shake off their injuries. Yeah, that's it. Just a more major injury free 2017 from what we have been having. Often injured Andre Smith back would be in there on having a healthy season also. Burfict has had his concussions which lead to more concussions, so add him on no concussions, he has had more than his share.

If I could wave a magic wand and take away just one Bengal history injury, it would be KEN DYER. That was just tragic for that young man to become paralyzed. Just a part of the game that makes you sick because no game, nothing is worth that. A huge reason I'm glad Pollack walked away from the game when doctors said the next good hit would leave him paralyzed. He did the right thing listening to doctors and his family is so grateful he didn't end up like Dyer.

I'll add that if Tim Krumrie doesn't break his leg in the Super Bowl, Bengals win that Super Bowl. Krumrie all season as nose guard somehow made tackles sideline to sideline like middle linebacker Dick Butkus or Bill Bergey. How he did it as a nose guard I do not know. All I know is he was the reason our defense was even in the Super Bowl. Losing Carson in 2005 play-off game hurt, Losing Dalton in 2015 hurt, Still, if Krumrie doesn't break his leg in Super Bowl, Bengals would have won that one. .....but given winning the Super Bowl or a healthy Ken Dyer, I'll take KEN DYER not paralyzed every time.

[grampahol]

Odd..the same types of injuries that used to be career ending are often now routine off season fixes....well not quite, but they do often get a few extra good seasons now that would have slammed the brakes on guys 15-20 years ago. 

[Stonyhands]

Chris Henry. No doubt. I believe that had he not been injured he'd still be alive today. He was headed in the right direction and if not for a stupid decision and an injury that kept him away from football he'd still be alive today.