Potential Reason for AJM Trade

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-18-2017, 06:25 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You are correct. I have only argued with the people that say the #33 pick is not worth it for AJM.

To me that is crazy. He is a 5th round pick that holds onto the ball too long. Get something for him while he has value.

I know i sound like a broken record.

Remember, he had a "dead arm" when he was finishing at Bama...that caused him to slip tremendously.  The guy has fought his way back and we seem to dismiss what he did in his FIRST FOUR STARTS IN THE NFL!!!

He might have held on to the ball too long, but people also said that about Kurt Warner.  He waited for his guy to make that final move, knew he was going to get hit, and delivered the ball on time and accurately. Now, AJM is no Kurt Warner.  But, for what he has done in his first four starts, I think he is capable of leading a team.  He is a leader and there aren't many QBs with his resume for Championships.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-18-2017, 06:59 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Remember, he had a "dead arm" when he was finishing at Bama...that caused him to slip tremendously.  The guy has fought his way back and we seem to dismiss what he did in his FIRST FOUR STARTS IN THE NFL!!!

He might have held on to the ball too long, but people also said that about Kurt Warner.  He waited for his guy to make that final move, knew he was going to get hit, and delivered the ball on time and accurately. Now, AJM is no Kurt Warner.  But, for what he has done in his first four starts, I think he is capable of leading a team.  He is a leader and there aren't many QBs with his resume for Championships.  

I agree with you to a point and maybe the guys that hype him up to all hell are the main reason why
sometimes i don't give him his due. He played okay and i really like his fire. I think with a good O-line
he could be a decent starter in the NFL.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-18-2017, 06:50 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Kind of going backwards, but to first address what you said about me not mentioning a single flaw for AJM:  He isn't flawless.  He doesn't run very well.  He may be a bit too conservative (although he is EXACTLY what Houston needs).  All that being said, AJM has started in the NFL for more games than Garoppolo and had more success in college.  How many Patriots go elsewhere and look very average?  If the Browns are really considering offering the Pats #12 for him, AND giving Garoppolo a multi-year, huge deal, they are crazy.  

The real reason I think nothing has happened is two-fold:  One, the reason I already mentioned.  The Bengals can wait and see who is there at #33.  My guess is the Browns and Bengals have already had this conversation.  The other, is that there is not a greater value in the NFL than a QB on their rookie deal.  They get paid a fraction of what average starting QBs are paid and unless they are drafted very high, it is a huge potential savings for multiple years.  Look at how Seattle fared when they had a low-dollar QB.  Ditto SF for a short while.  I believe teams like the Browns, Bears, Jets, 49ers, etc are going to sit back and wait and see who goes QB first, then there will be a scramble.  None of this year's prospects look like year 1 starters anyways.  McCarron could come in to almost any team and be the leader, the stabilizing force at QB for next to nothing. If he looks great, you sign him long term.  If he doesn't you can draft one of the QBs coming out of USC and UCLA next year...they are really highly rated prospects.   

I am a Browns fan #2 (a distant second) and I would love to see it for Cleveland.  You may think less of me now, but I only say that so you know I am not trying to one-sided the trade.  

That post was addressed to BigSeph. 

[THE PISTONS]

IF hypothetically we could trade McCarron for say Washington's 1st Round pick...what's stopping us from then turning around and drafting a Brad Kaaya in the 2nd or 3rd Round to have a guy to develop?

McCarron isn't in our long-term plans anyways. This way we'd get a 1st Round pick AND a young QB to develop and have under team control for 4-5 years.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-19-2017, 01:58 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: IF hypothetically we could trade McCarron for say Washington's 1st Round pick...what's stopping us from then turning around and drafting a Brad Kaaya in the 2nd or 3rd Round to have a guy to develop?

McCarron isn't in our long-term plans anyways. This way we'd get a 1st Round pick AND a young QB to develop and have under team control for 4-5 years.

Would be all for it. Getting a first for AJM is a no brainer i think. There is some that would disagree surprisingly tho.

I know nothing about Jeff Driskell. Kaaya has some talent.

[BigSeph]

(04-18-2017, 02:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: If one of the 10 or so teams in need of a QB felt that McCarron were a viable option, they would've offered up such a pick or "package" last year. Or maybe even this year. The Bengals don't need an extra "throw in" type of pick to replace McCarron. They already have 11 picks...12 picks if they trade Mac...plus there are some excellent backup options currently available in FA. Either way, if teams believed in Mac as much as you do, he would've been gone a long time ago.

Mike Brown traded Palmer for a late 1st and a 2nd round pick. At the time, it was said that Mike would have to be absolutely floored in order to consider a trade. Now Palmer was a proven franchise QB...so I imagine the price tag on McCarron is substantially less. Say a 2nd rounder would probably get it done. Why has McCarron not even been part of any rumored trades for going on 2 full offseasons? 

Either (a) you think the price tag is substantially higher than a 2nd round pick...which doesn't seem likely, or (b) you think teams aren't willing to cough up a 2nd round pick for a supposedly flawless prospect (you still haven't mentioned a single flaw for Mac). Which is it?

1.  You don't have a clue what's been offered for McCarron or what the Bengals demands are.


2.  Carson Palmer made a lot more money than McCarron, and was "retired" at the time he was traded.  Raiders had to take on his salary and the Bengals had no real leverage other than the Raiders' desperation after Jason Campbell went down with an injury.

You really draw some absurd equivalences.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-20-2017, 03:30 AM)BigSeph Wrote: 1.  You don't have a clue what's been offered for McCarron or what the Bengals demands are.

2.  Carson Palmer made a lot more money than McCarron, and was "retired" at the time he was traded.  Raiders had to take on his salary and the Bengals had no real leverage other than the Raiders' desperation after Jason Campbell went down with an injury.

You really draw some absurd equivalences.

The Bengals had all the leverage because of Mike Brown's stubborn ways and the desperation of the Raiders that you mention. Just as they have all the leverage with McCarron. The situations are similar, outside of the obvious talent difference between Palmer and McCarron.

No, we don't know what the demands are or what's been offered (although Jim O says no offers have been made, and he knows more than you or I)...but it'd be completely foolish to think it's anywhere near what Palmer got in return.

McCarron only makes that reasonable salary for 2017. That's not enough to raise his value higher than a proven franchise QB.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-20-2017, 12:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Bengals had all the leverage because of Mike Brown's stubborn ways and the desperation of the Raiders that you mention. Just as they have all the leverage with McCarron. The situations are similar, outside of the obvious talent difference between Palmer and McCarron.

No, we don't know what the demands are or what's been offered (although Jim O says no offers have been made, and he knows more than you or I)...but it'd be completely foolish to think it's anywhere near what Palmer got in return.

McCarron only makes that reasonable salary for 2017. That's not enough to raise his value higher than a proven franchise QB.

Don't bother Shake, BigSeph comparing McCarron to Tom Brady and Carson Palmer speaks volumes.

[BigSeph]

(04-20-2017, 12:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Bengals had all the leverage because of Mike Brown's stubborn ways and the desperation of the Raiders that you mention. Just as they have all the leverage with McCarron. The situations are similar, outside of the obvious talent difference between Palmer and McCarron.

No, we don't know what the demands are or what's been offered (although Jim O says no offers have been made, and he knows more than you or I)...but it'd be completely foolish to think it's anywhere near what Palmer got in return.

McCarron only makes that reasonable salary for 2017. That's not enough to raise his value higher than a proven franchise QB.

I'll stick to dealing with what has actually been said in public statements, what was actually done on the field.

You can peddle your fantasy stories all you want.

[BenZoo2]

(04-20-2017, 03:53 PM)BigSeph Wrote: I'll stick to dealing with what has actually been said in public statements, what was actually done on the field.

You can peddle your fantasy stories all you want.

Didn't the bengals say it was an offseason priority to trade aj this year?


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[Luvnit2]

(04-20-2017, 03:55 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Didn't the bengals say it was an offseason priority to trade aj this year?


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I never saw anything other than the decision to allow AJM to become a restricted free agent..either after 2017 or after 2018. If after 2018, Bengals will be in a great position with AJM next year to trade also

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-20-2017, 03:53 PM)BigSeph Wrote: I'll stick to dealing with what has actually been said in public statements, what was actually done on the field.

You can peddle your fantasy stories all you want.

Ummmmm.....Jim O is our beat writer....back a few months ago....he shot down those high round trade offer rumors.  That's not fantasy.

Playing 4 mediocre games and calling a guy Tom Brady because of them is closer to fantasy....ijs.

[BigSeph]

(04-20-2017, 10:55 PM)Wyche Wrote: Ummmmm.....Jim O is our beat writer....back a few months ago....he shot down those high round trade offer rumors.  That's not fantasy.

Playing 4 mediocre games and calling a guy Tom Brady because of them is closer to fantasy....ijs.

I'm well aware who Jim O is, but a beat writer doesn't bat 1.000 and a beat writer isn't privy to all the facts.

Lapham said a team offered a 2nd and a 4th last year for AJM.

Does Jim O disagree with Lapham?  A beat writer doesn't get weekly updates on trade offers from GMs.

I'm also not calling AJM Tom Brady either, sorry it bothers you guys so much when I look at rate stats from his starts (which over half this forum claims was mediocre at best) and Tom Brady's the only other starting NFL QB in the past 30 years who had similar rate stats in his first year of NFL starting experience.

Sounds like you have a problem with facts.

Maybe Jim O does too.

[The Caped Crusader]

(04-21-2017, 02:17 AM)BigSeph Wrote: I'm well aware who Jim O is, but a beat writer doesn't bat 1.000 and a beat writer isn't privy to all the facts.

Lapham said a team offered a 2nd and a 4th last year for AJM.

Does Jim O disagree with Lapham?  A beat writer doesn't get weekly updates on trade offers from GMs.

I'm also not calling AJM Tom Brady either, sorry it bothers you guys so much when I look at rate stats from his starts (which over half this forum claims was mediocre at best) and Tom Brady's the only other starting NFL QB in the past 30 years who had similar rate stats in his first year of NFL starting experience.

Sounds like you have a problem with facts.

Maybe Jim O does too.

To this day, and perhaps to the end of my life, I've never seen someone so adamantly defend someone. It's to the point of like blind loyalty. You have to be his Dad, Mom, possibly close uncle? Distant cousin?


Listen, I like AJM, he is a good guy, and a pretty darn good college QB. I don't think he necessarily deserves all the RIDICULOUS amount of hype you keep comparing him to. Yes, you keep comparing him to Tom Brady, with meaningless four game stats. When you use him as a comparison, you're going to take consistent flak.

[BigSeph]

(04-21-2017, 02:31 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: To this day, and perhaps to the end of my life, I've never seen someone so adamantly defend someone. It's to the point of like blind loyalty. You have to be his Dad, Mom, possibly close uncle? Distant cousin?


Listen, I like AJM, he is a good guy, and a pretty darn good college QB. I don't think he necessarily deserves all the RIDICULOUS amount of hype you keep comparing him to. Yes, you keep comparing him to Tom Brady, with meaningless four game stats. When you use him as a comparison, you're going to take consistent flak.

All across the internet there are dozens of people who post the exact same sentiments I do, on forums and article comment sections, with the exact same opinion of AJM. Many are Bengals fans, some aren't.

I'm not some unique snowflake.

What's sad is how butthurt most Bengal fans get when someone dares give AJM some credit.  On every forum or article where I see pro-AJM comments, the poor guy is immediately dogpiled by a bunch of Andy apologists and AJM gets bashed in the process.

AJM has a bright future in the NFL, he has a lot more QB skills than what many of you guys would like to admit.  That's really all it boils down to.

I and others see the potential.  You and others don't.

The cool thing is, one day he'll get an opportunity and he'll run with it.  Maybe it's here, maybe it's elsewhere.  I'd prefer to deal in reality and empirical things (video, statistics, etc) rather than future prognostication.  But I watch a lot of football and when AJM was on the field in 2015, he looked like a top-tier NFL QB who was only missing one thing - experience.  And the stats back that assessment up.

[The Caped Crusader]

(04-21-2017, 04:32 AM)BigSeph Wrote: All across the internet there are dozens of people who post the exact same sentiments I do, on forums and article comment sections, with the exact same opinion of AJM.  Many are Bengals fans, some aren't.

I'm not some unique snowflake.

What's sad is how butthurt most Bengal fans get when someone dares give AJM some credit.  On every forum or article where I see pro-AJM comments, the poor guy is immediately dogpiled by a bunch of Andy apologists and AJM gets bashed in the process.

AJM has a bright future in the NFL, he has a lot more QB skills than what many of you guys would like to admit.  That's really all it boils down to.

I and others see the potential.  You and others don't.

The cool thing is, one day he'll get an opportunity and he'll run with it.  Maybe it's here, maybe it's elsewhere.  I'd prefer to deal in reality and empirical things (video, statistics, etc) rather than future prognostication.  But I watch a lot of football and when AJM was on the field in 2015, he looked like a top-tier NFL QB who was only missing one thing - experience.  And the stats back that assessment up.

One, I don't doubt the internet has plenty of AJM fans. The internet has plenty of people that support the KKK too. I don't really think that makes a huge difference in the opinion here, nor does it create a legitimate argument by stating the size of ones backing.

Secondly, I never dogged, discredited or broke down AJM. What I simply said was that you're hard selling something that one, hasn't really had the opportunity, two, doesn't entirely deserve it and three, are pushing it WAY too much. I've said AJM is talented, and he definitely DEFINITELY deserves a starting spot on a team. Especially with the trash that is out there. That being said, you've pushed arguments to the point of blinding over this guy. It's like Tebow or Manziel. We've seen four games of game tape, and in those four games, he was okay.

So, again, we don't see eye to eye, and my dogging you has more to do with the fact that you're entirely too in AJM's alley considering playing time. But...agree to disagree.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-21-2017, 02:17 AM)BigSeph Wrote: I'm well aware who Jim O is, but a beat writer doesn't bat 1.000 and a beat writer isn't privy to all the facts.

Lapham said a team offered a 2nd and a 4th last year for AJM.

Does Jim O disagree with Lapham?  A beat writer doesn't get weekly updates on trade offers from GMs.

I'm also not calling AJM Tom Brady either, sorry it bothers you guys so much when I look at rate stats from his starts (which over half this forum claims was mediocre at best) and Tom Brady's the only other starting NFL QB in the past 30 years who had similar rate stats in his first year of NFL starting experience.

Sounds like you have a problem with facts.

Maybe Jim O does too.

.....but Dave Lapham does? Yes, Jim disagrees, and posted as much on this VERY forum.

I have NO problem with facts.  You're the one comparing 4 games to a full season.....that was almost 20 years ago, and calling it a set in stone legit correlation.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-21-2017, 04:40 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: One, I don't doubt the internet has plenty of AJM fans. The internet has plenty of people that support the KKK too. I don't really think that makes a huge difference in the opinion here, nor does it create a legitimate argument by stating the size of ones backing.

Secondly, I never dogged, discredited or broke down AJM. What I simply said was that you're hard selling something that one, hasn't really had the opportunity, two, doesn't entirely deserve it and three, are pushing it WAY too much. I've said AJM is talented, and he definitely DEFINITELY deserves a starting spot on a team. Especially with the trash that is out there. That being said, you've pushed arguments to the point of blinding over this guy. It's like Tebow or Manziel. We've seen four games of game tape, and in those four games, he was okay.

So, again, we don't see eye to eye, and my dogging you has more to do with the fact that you're entirely too in AJM's alley considering playing time. But...agree to disagree.

This. Right. Here.  

Somehow, being a realist is considered dogging.....it's kinda like being labeled a "hater" on the old board for being real about the team.

[BenZoo2]

Here's a rate stat, too many redundant posts in this thread. Those who think ajm is the second coming of Jesus Christ will not change the opinion of those who think he's a flawed backup, and vice versa.

For someone like me who falls in the middle this thread is both humorous and exhausting


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[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-21-2017, 10:38 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Here's a rate stat, too many redundant posts in this thread.  Those who think ajm is the second coming of Jesus Christ will not change the opinion of those who think he's a flawed backup, and vice versa.  

For someone like me who falls in the middle this thread is both humorous and exhausting


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I agree....but I have stated numerous times I think he's a very good backup, possibly the best in the league.  I've also maintained that he would be, at the very least, a good stop gap starter.  I'm just not sure how that's "not dealing in reality"?